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dharris2488

Sealed Trunk Tips... First time, any help appreciated

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Hey guys, I'm currently starting my (2) 12" Ethos build and I was planning on firing both the subs and the port into the cabin of my 2013 Toyota Camry.  So far, I'm framing out what I can in the smaller oval shape opening behind the seats that Toyota decided needed the be there.  It's about 36" wide, 15" tall, and about 8" deep.  I'm basically laying 2x4's down until I get to the point where I can have a flat surface in my trunk for my enclosure to bolt up to.  This oval area will be dead space from the inside of my car, so I may do some fiberglassing and "pretty" that area up with LED's, or something of that nature.

 

Now, as this is an oval, and 2x4's are straight, I will obviously have some gaps that aren't/won't be sealed off completely.  This will in turn lead to cancellation from the sound going back into the trunk, and that's not what anyone wants.  Can I tape off the edges there and spray some of that expanding foam in these gaps?  What is the best solution to this problem?  If there are any other hints/tips on sealing a trunk properly, I would GREATLY appreciate any comments, as this is the first time i've ever done this.  I'm here to learn from some of the best in the business, so as always, anything thrown my way is appreciated.

 

I probably need to post some pics to better explain this, but maybe there are rules to sealing off a trunk that I don't know.  If there are some do's and dont's about sealing, it would be great info to know.  All I plan on doing is framing out that hole, then basically put heavy duty L brackets on my enclosure and butt it up against the frame to secure it.  I would then glue/caulk/or silicone the edges to make sure they were air tight.  It's all the area around my enclosure that I'm trying to wrap my head around.  How will I keep sound from going back into my trunk?  Sitting here scratching my head now... morning.gif

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Make sure you find every area that gos into the trunk. There are a lot of little spaces where air can get back into the trunk. . I have used a lot of spray foam lol. . . .yea forsure get some pictures up so we can better understand everything

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Make sure you find every area that gos into the trunk. There are a lot of little spaces where air can get back into the trunk. . I have used a lot of spray foam lol. . . .yea forsure get some pictures up so we can better understand everything

Will do... I will snap some pics now and post.  I will start working on my enclosure for now and run some wire, until I get a good understanding of what it takes to seal off a trunk.  This may be a dumb question, but I'm going to ask anyway.  If "properly sealed off," with same power and subs, should I notice a DB increase?  Basically, is this the "best" way to face an enclosure for SPL and SQ in a sedan?  I know variables exist that can come into play, but going from rear fired to sealed (trunk, not enclosure) forward, theoretically I should notice an increase in SPL?  It should also reduce trunk rattle almost completely as well?

Edited by dharris2488

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Make sure you find every area that gos into the trunk. There are a lot of little spaces where air can get back into the trunk. . I have used a lot of spray foam lol. . . .yea forsure get some pictures up so we can better understand every

I need to figure out how to post pics.. I will be back shortly, hopefully with pics of my trunk! lol

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Make sure you find every area that gos into the trunk. There are a lot of little spaces where air can get back into the trunk. . I have used a lot of spray foam lol. . . .yea forsure get some pictures up so we can better understand everything

Pictures hopefully....

 

IMG 20140701 112008 613

IMG 20140701 111950 240

IMG 20140701 111912 736

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Be careful with the foam as it can get messy, so protect interior panels and carpet as much as you can. I just ripped out my forward firing setup and foam, let me tell you it was a field day to clean up. Plus my car isnt no where as new as yours. I would try and use spray foam in the small places and holes around your trunk. But for the actual enclosure itself, build it as wide and tall as you can. Then cover the bigger openings with wood. Will look a thousands times better and less of a mess.

Take a look at the build log section and there are some ideas in there. I believe basshead7890 or something like that has a good idea of a forward firing sealed setup:

http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/topic/50199-95-honda-accord-build-crossfire-xs-v2-18/

Edited by jay-cee

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You can check out my build log. . Didn't post pictures of everything Iv done but mite give you ideas

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Be careful with the foam as it can get messy, so protect interior panels and carpet as much as you can. I just ripped out my forward firing setup and foam, let me tell you it was a field day to clean up. Plus my car isnt no where as new as yours. I would try and use spray foam in the small places and holes around your trunk. But for the actual enclosure itself, build it as wide and tall as you can. Then cover the bigger openings with wood. Will look a thousands times better and less of a mess.

Take a look at the build log section and there are some ideas in there. I believe basshead7890 or something like that has a good idea of a forward firing sealed setup:

http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/topic/50199-95-honda-accord-build-crossfire-xs-v2-18/

Thanks for the link... Going to read it this afternoon.  Working on enclosure as I type... Enclosure is only 34.5" wide and 16.5"H, 23.375"D.  5 1/8" opening on the port, tuned to 32.5-33hz at Vb=3.  I'm going for it...  I figure I can use the jigsaw and start cutting pieces of 1/2" ply and covering up big gaps and use spray/expanding foam to fill.  I will tape off ALL metal, so hopefully if and when I need to remove the frame, It will peel right off. 

 

I'm going to come up with a setup where I can bolt the enclosure to the wooden frame.  I need this to be modular, as I'm a travelling salesman.  Normally it doesn't matter, but when my boss comes into town, I can't have this in my trunk.  I will carpet a piece of ply and bolt it over the opening and he won't know any difference...  Thats the plan at least.

 

I hope firing the subs/port into the cabin makes a noticeable enough difference to justify all the work i'm putting into this.  And by the way, for those who care, I am taking pictures of everything I can so I can post a build log.  Maybe it will help someone like me in the future.  Share the love...

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You can check out my build log. . Didn't post pictures of everything Iv done but mite give you ideas

Thanks.  I will definitely read up.  The way I see it is, I can't be TOO informed... 

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i would (in addition to sealing all the holes) lay MLV across the top of the rear deck and down the sides. 
 

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i would (in addition to sealing all the holes) lay MLV across the top of the rear deck and down the sides. 

 

I thought about that, but didn't know how effective it would be.  Second Skin MLV be good?  Just cut it into workable strips and place over any metal?  Never worked with the stuff...  Also, if I built little boxes to surround my rear 6x9's, do you guys think I would get a little more "punchiness" out of them?  Secure the boxes to the underside of the deck using liquid nails or something?  I'm looking to get more punchiness from my mids... I thought about the foam rings for the door panels, but I have to come up with something for the rear...

 

THanks for the tip on the MLV... I will go ahead and place an order for some today.  I put some closed cell foam on the perimeter of my headliner and it made a world of difference.  I can't imagine what MLV will do... may even help the 6x9's play a little cleaner, since hardly an vibrations...

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Well, I have my port pieces cut and the top and bottom of my enclosure.  Gonna have to take a break, as I live in Houston, TX and it's a hot biotch outside right now...  I LOVE TEXAS, but I hate Texas summers.  At least I get 9 months of amazing weather though...

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I would work A LOT more on the front stage than putting 6by9s in the rear

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i would (in addition to sealing all the holes) lay MLV across the top of the rear deck and down the sides. 

 

I thought about that, but didn't know how effective it would be.  Second Skin MLV be good?  Just cut it into workable strips and place over any metal?  Never worked with the stuff...  Also, if I built little boxes to surround my rear 6x9's, do you guys think I would get a little more "punchiness" out of them?  Secure the boxes to the underside of the deck using liquid nails or something?  I'm looking to get more punchiness from my mids... I thought about the foam rings for the door panels, but I have to come up with something for the rear...

 

THanks for the tip on the MLV... I will go ahead and place an order for some today.  I put some closed cell foam on the perimeter of my headliner and it made a world of difference.  I can't imagine what MLV will do... may even help the 6x9's play a little cleaner, since hardly an vibrations...

 

it would be best if you read sounddeadenershowdown.com concerning mlv. MLV acts as a barrier, cld tiles dampen resonant, ccf decouples. 

 

i would suggest removing the mids, selling them, and improving the front stage.

Edited by lithium

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i would (in addition to sealing all the holes) lay MLV across the top of the rear deck and down the sides.

I thought about that, but didn't know how effective it would be. Second Skin MLV be good? Just cut it into workable strips and place over any metal? Never worked with the stuff... Also, if I built little boxes to surround my rear 6x9's, do you guys think I would get a little more "punchiness" out of them? Secure the boxes to the underside of the deck using liquid nails or something? I'm looking to get more punchiness from my mids... I thought about the foam rings for the door panels, but I have to come up with something for the rear...

THanks for the tip on the MLV... I will go ahead and place an order for some today. I put some closed cell foam on the perimeter of my headliner and it made a world of difference. I can't imagine what MLV will do... may even help the 6x9's play a little cleaner, since hardly an vibrations...

it would be best if you read sounddeadenershowdown.com concerning mlv. MLV acts as a barrier, cld tiles dampen resonant, ccf decouples.

i would suggest removing the mids, selling them, and improving the front stage.

^^ this. The Ethos will overpower your front stage. With my current setup 2 12" ethos, I have the sub stage set pretty conservatively as that is my very same issue. 6 1/2 crescendo cz with full sound deadening treatment. So yeah I will say a beefy, well executed front stage is very very necessary.

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i would (in addition to sealing all the holes) lay MLV across the top of the rear deck and down the sides.

I thought about that, but didn't know how effective it would be. Second Skin MLV be good? Just cut it into workable strips and place over any metal? Never worked with the stuff... Also, if I built little boxes to surround my rear 6x9's, do you guys think I would get a little more "punchiness" out of them? Secure the boxes to the underside of the deck using liquid nails or something? I'm looking to get more punchiness from my mids... I thought about the foam rings for the door panels, but I have to come up with something for the rear...

THanks for the tip on the MLV... I will go ahead and place an order for some today. I put some closed cell foam on the perimeter of my headliner and it made a world of difference. I can't imagine what MLV will do... may even help the 6x9's play a little cleaner, since hardly an vibrations...

it would be best if you read sounddeadenershowdown.com concerning mlv. MLV acts as a barrier, cld tiles dampen resonant, ccf decouples.

i would suggest removing the mids, selling them, and improving the front stage.

^^ this. The Ethos will overpower your front stage. With my current setup 2 12" ethos, I have the sub stage set pretty conservatively as that is my very same issue. 6 1/2 crescendo cz with full sound deadening treatment. So yeah I will say a beefy, well executed front stage is very very necessary.

 

Well, looks like I've got some work to do... I've got to keep it as is for now, as I'm dumping all my money into the subs, enclosure, and sealing of trunk.  My car is loud, as the Kappa's do get loud and clear, so it will have to work for now.  I have the extra 4 channel SoundQubed amp that I can install instead of the Kenwood.  It will give me another 70 watts per channel and I should be able to buy and handle a more competition driven mid range component set/s.  How do you like the Crescendo's?  Also, I will be installing the SuperTweets up front to give me more highs.  I would love to learn how to install a set of 8" mid range drivers in the door.  Looks like I will be researching that next...  Always something! :)

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please dont. crescendo's  "pro audio" stuff like the supertweeters have no place in a car. that's not to say that pro audio drivers cant be used but crescendo's are garbage. 

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please dont. crescendo's  "pro audio" stuff like the supertweeters have no place in a car. that's not to say that pro audio drivers cant be used but crescendo's are garbage.

I would say there far from the best but forsure wouldn't say garbage

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please dont. crescendo's  "pro audio" stuff like the supertweeters have no place in a car. that's not to say that pro audio drivers cant be used but crescendo's are garbage.

I would say there far from the best but forsure wouldn't say garbage

 

really? lets see some measurements? oh wait

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.

Edited by frogcase2002

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please dont. crescendo's  "pro audio" stuff like the supertweeters have no place in a car. that's not to say that pro audio drivers cant be used but crescendo's are garbage.

So you have installed the pwx's multiple ways with multiple crossover points and have just sounded like strait garbage to you in every way? I'm in no way saying there good speakers I'm just saying I have heard worse that were more money

I would say there far from the best but forsure wouldn't say garbage

really? lets see some measurements? oh wait

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Well, I will do some research and see what I can come up with.  Right now the Kappa's can handle some pretty decent wattage and stay clear and loud.  I may put the Q4-120 on them at 2ohm and give them 170 each.  Play them until they blow or just get ragged.  Then I will see what my options are.  Maybe the sound from the Ethos will overpower my mids/highs so much that it drives me nutz and I pull the trigger on something immediately?  I don't know yet... Wait and see.  I'm going to need to do some research on how to add an 8" driver to the stock door opening, with fabrication of course, yet still make it look stock.  I think with 2 8" drivers, and the 6.5 components, with super tweets up front, I should be all good.  At least for now...  I'm really missing a lot of that serious punch mid bass.  That will be next.  Soooo, no Crescendo.  Recommendation?

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Well, I will do some research and see what I can come up with.  Right now the Kappa's can handle some pretty decent wattage and stay clear and loud.  I may put the Q4-120 on them at 2ohm and give them 170 each.  Play them until they blow or just get ragged.  Then I will see what my options are.  Maybe the sound from the Ethos will overpower my mids/highs so much that it drives me nutz and I pull the trigger on something immediately?  I don't know yet... Wait and see.  I'm going to need to do some research on how to add an 8" driver to the stock door opening, with fabrication of course, yet still make it look stock.  I think with 2 8" drivers, and the 6.5 components, with super tweets up front, I should be all good.  At least for now...  I'm really missing a lot of that serious punch mid bass.  That will be next.  Soooo, no Crescendo.  Recommendation?

 

your whole plan with the 8s, components, super tweeters together is terrible to be honest.  you already have speakers that you seem to be happy with. it would be best to get them installed optimally which would included deadening the doors, sealing access holes in the door (separate the front and rear sound waves produced by the woofer),  mlv, and so forth. You could also bridge the 4 channel to the front components and run the rears off something else or disable them. Set the gain and xover correctly and you shouldn't kill any speaker, unless you do so purposefully by ignoring the signs. 

 

If that's not enough output then come back with a new thread and discuss new gear. 

Edited by lithium

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I wouldnt do super tweeters either, been there and done that. What is your budget on front stage? If you do decide to go active with an 8" driver and tweeter combo then you can sell the comps, both wont be needed. For now just bridge the speakers in the front doors to give them more power.

My next setup will be hlcd (horn loaded compression drivers) under the dash and 8" in the doors.

Edited by jay-cee

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Well, I will do some research and see what I can come up with.  Right now the Kappa's can handle some pretty decent wattage and stay clear and loud.  I may put the Q4-120 on them at 2ohm and give them 170 each.  Play them until they blow or just get ragged.  Then I will see what my options are.  Maybe the sound from the Ethos will overpower my mids/highs so much that it drives me nutz and I pull the trigger on something immediately?  I don't know yet... Wait and see.  I'm going to need to do some research on how to add an 8" driver to the stock door opening, with fabrication of course, yet still make it look stock.  I think with 2 8" drivers, and the 6.5 components, with super tweets up front, I should be all good.  At least for now...  I'm really missing a lot of that serious punch mid bass.  That will be next.  Soooo, no Crescendo.  Recommendation?

 

your whole plan with the 8s, components, super tweeters together is terrible to be honest.  you already have speakers that you seem to be happy with. it would be best to get them installed optimally which would included deadening the doors, sealing access holes in the door (separate the front and rear sound waves produced by the woofer),  mlv, and so forth. You could also bridge the 4 channel to the front components and run the rears off something else or disable them. Set the gain and xover correctly and you shouldn't kill any speaker, unless you do so purposefully by ignoring the signs. 

 

If that's not enough output then come back with a new thread and discuss new gear. 

 

Ok.  The Kappa's can handle 150RMS, I believe.  So far, I believe I'm only putting about 100 to them.  I like your idea of losing the rears, therefore adding more power to the components.  I have another amp that I was planning on installing to run some rear fill (I know most of you guys don't like the idea of rear fill, but I like the surround I get from it), off one of the channels.  I guess I will keep the super tweeters for a "fun" build and do something for the beach.  Something like a ice chest build.  Anyway, getting off track.  I've already deadened the doors, so I guess if I do the rest as you recommended, I can get more of the punchiness that I'm looking for.  Thanks for the advise... It's nice to bounce ideas around and get honest, straightforward answers.

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