Sealed Trunk Tips... First time, any help appreciated

[dharris2488 1]

Just got confirmation my Ethos are on the way!  Hell yeah!  Can't wait.  My enclosure should be built by tomorrow and then I can figure out how to frame it out to fire subs/port forward into the cabin.  I'm doing everything I can to find every single hole in my trunk and rear deck to seal the trunk off completely.  Very tedious work, but will be worth all the time put in once the Ethos get wired up.

[dharris2488 1]

I wouldnt do super tweeters either, been there and done that. What is your budget on front stage? If you do decide to go active with an 8" driver and tweeter combo then you can sell the comps, both wont be needed. For now just bridge the speakers in the front doors to give them more power.

My next setup will be hlcd (horn loaded compression drivers) under the dash and 8" in the doors.

Why don't you like super tweeters?  Just curious?  Not upset about not using them.  I think they were only like 25 dollars or something.  I can sell them...

[jcarter1885 995]

Most super tweeters have a high recommended frequency crossover point that makes them hard to mate up with drivers. Either causing gaps in frequency response or the risk of crossing your mids too high and running into beaming issues. Ive had plenty of them and just not my cup of tea.

[dharris2488 1]

Gotcha...  Yeah, they have a weird impedance to them as well, 5 I think.  Figured it was normal.  I've never run them, so I didn't know any difference. 

 

Do you happen to know if those foam rings work fairly well that you wrap around the 6.5 driver's themselves?  The one's that butt up to the actual plastic of door?  I guess they keep the waves moving forward, instead of bouncing around all throughout the door panel.  I think with some MLV added on top of my deadener (as recommended above), then maybe those acoustic foam rings, I should be good to go.  Maybe add some more power to them as well.  Thinking about just yanking the Kenwood amp and replacing it with the SoundQubed, just for power reasons (easy swap)...  It may sound better as well, with it being a Class AB and the Kenwood being a Class D, even though I may not be able to tell the difference.

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

Firing the sub into the cabin may or may not be louder. Would definitely do some testing before sealing the trunk if thats your only reason. Yes sealed will quiet down truck rattles. But if the sub is louder firing into the trunk, you may want to just deaden the trunk. 

 

As sub freqrency soundwaves are so long, sealing every little hole to the trunk will not make that much difference. You would be better off doing the MLV over the rear deck and any other surface facing into the car around the trunk opening. 

 

My suggestion would be butt the box up to the frame you have built and listen to that before wasting a bunch of time trying to seal every little hole. 

 

I say this as I have done subs firing into the cabin with both methods.

[dharris2488 1]

Firing the sub into the cabin may or may not be louder. Would definitely do some testing before sealing the trunk if thats your only reason. Yes sealed will quiet down truck rattles. But if the sub is louder firing into the trunk, you may want to just deaden the trunk. 

 

As sub freqrency soundwaves are so long, sealing every little hole to the trunk will not make that much difference. You would be better off doing the MLV over the rear deck and any other surface facing into the car around the trunk opening. 

 

My suggestion would be butt the box up to the frame you have built and listen to that before wasting a bunch of time trying to seal every little hole. 

 

I say this as I have done subs firing into the cabin with both methods.

Well, I hope that's not the case because I just spent nearly two days sealing up every little hole I can find.  Now today I will finish building the frame.  I believe my subs are arriving today, so I can go ahead and cut the holes in the enclosure and give it a full day of testing tomorrow.  I need my MLV to hurry up and come in.  I hope it gets to my house by next weekend. 

 

For the meantime, I bought a heavy ass rubber pad people use to stand or place heavy vibrating objects on, to install for testing purposes.  I know it's not the same, but the weight, density, and makeup of whatever material they used appears to be somewhat similar.  Should work for testing and will be removed and replaced by MLV...

 

Well, it's electrical day today... Going to finish up the second run of 1/0, put the box up next to the frame, measure out how much room I have on both sides and figure out where to put amplifiers, batteries, and bus bars and wires...  I sure hope this turns out right the first time!  What's the odds of that?

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

Sealing off the trunk for the right reasons isn't a bad idea. You might of been able to get similar results with less work though.

You wont know which sound you will like subjectively with out testing. Once it is built in and sealed you won't be able compare.

Keep us posted. And don't forget pics.

[jcarter1885 995]

J-roads is right i just undid sealing my cabin from my trunk and turned my box around so now its firing to the rear. Even on lower power I like it better. Now I just have to worry about the trunk lid.

Edited July 5, 2014 by jay-cee

[dharris2488 1]

J-roads is right i just undid sealing my cabin from my trunk and turned my box around so now its firing to the rear. Even on lower power I like it better. Now I just have to worry about the trunk lid.

We shall see... Basically, if I don't like it, the only thing that needs to come out will be the frame.  Then I can turn it around and let her bang away.  I've just reinforced the shite out of my trunk is the way I see it.  The only problem will be, the only way I can turn on the sub stage is with the seats down, or keep seats up and remove 6x9's and let the waves come up through the two opening there.  I'm not really at a point to take a bunch of pictures to post up.  Basically it's a ton of QMat that I got hooked up with and foam in the cracks where I physically can't reach.  As soon as I get the frame built this afternoon and placed in the trunk, I will post pics of what I have.  Still plenty of work to do...

[dharris2488 1]

J-roads is right i just undid sealing my cabin from my trunk and turned my box around so now its firing to the rear. Even on lower power I like it better. Now I just have to worry about the trunk lid.

Only one way to find out and that's to do it...  If I don't, I will always question myself.  Sometimes things don't work out, but there's nothing like the feeling when they turn out the way you intended it too.  Back to the build...  By the way, it's hotter than a fresh fu&Ked fox in a forest fire today! GEEEEZZZZ!!!

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

If sq is your goal you will most likely be happier with the cabin sealed and the sub firing forward. I personally have mine sealed off to the 9th degree. I have played with several other configurations but that one sounded best to me. Not the loudest, but the most accurate, with the least coloring.

My setup before was with the sub forward sealed with only wood, which sounded really clean also. With less effort. As you said, either way you have the rear deck and surrounding area deadened nicely.

All food for thought.

[dharris2488 1]

If sq is your goal you will most likely be happier with the cabin sealed and the sub firing forward. I personally have mine sealed off to the 9th degree. I have played with several other configurations but that one sounded best to me. Not the loudest, but the most accurate, with the least coloring.

My setup before was with the sub forward sealed with only wood, which sounded really clean also. With less effort. As you said, either way you have the rear deck and surrounding area deadened nicely.

All food for thought.

Thanks for the input.  I think I'm about to call it a day because I'm starting to get frustrated.  I'm sealed up nicely, I believe.  MUCH better than before.  This whole sub forward/port forward is becoming more difficult that I previously thought.  I need to sleep on it and see what I'm going to end up doing.  I still have 2 1/2 sheets of QMat to put on the lid of my trunk if I decide to rear fire.  I wanted to do something I've never done before and I was hoping that by firing forward, i would get more SPL if sealed properly.  If that's not the case, then I really need to rethink this.  I'm looking for "SQL", so maybe deadening and sealing up everything I can, then rear fire may be the best choice?  Kind of frustrated at the moment, so I'm going to clean up and spend some time with the wife.  Maybe something will come to me later on.  Basically, it's going to be a real bitch to seal the enclosure up to the car....  I know my car is loud with rear firing subs, as I have (2) HDS3 12's on a Q2200 right now and it sounds pretty damn good honestly.  I wanted to take this build to the next level and I've hit a wall... MUCH PROPS TO THOSE WITH VERY SOPHITICATED SYSTEMS!!!  I need some help...

[puscifer2 27]

I know how you feel. Facing the rear I had a boost in low end output, but shattered my trunk latch. Ford decided to make it completely electrical. So I have no choice but to fire forward. I may have lost that little gain in the low notes, but facing forward I noticed 1 more detailed bass and 2 a better ability to hear if I push too hard. So until you play with positioning it's anybody's guess as to what will happen.

[///M5 2,833]

I have another amp that I was planning on installing to run some rear fill (I know most of you guys don't like the idea of rear fill, but I like the surround I get from it), off one of the channels.

You get ZERO surround from rear fill unless of course you are listening to movies or have a very odd 5.1 encoded audio collection.

Why don't you like super tweeters?  Just curious?  Not upset about not using them.  I think they were only like 25 dollars or something.  I can sell them...

They sound like utter horseshit and give you sensitivity where you don't need it.

For the meantime, I bought a heavy ass rubber pad people use to stand or place heavy vibrating objects on, to install for testing purposes.  I know it's not the same, but the weight, density, and makeup of whatever material they used appears to be somewhat similar.  Should work for testing and will be removed and replaced by MLV...

MLV needs to cover the whole area and be sealed. If that matt does that why remove it? There is NOTHING special about MLV other than outside of lead it is about as dense as any sheet product. Stopping sound transmission is done with mass, so if it is really heavy you are golden.

I'm looking for SQL

No you are not. Q&L are complete opposites, putting them together in a word is dumb. And there is NEVER a Q and multiple mids &/or Supertweets. Not even close.

As for the front/rear you may not have as much output firing forward, but with eq can end up with a better result. Luckily the bass portion of an install is BY FAR the easy portion.

[dharris2488 1]

 

I have another amp that I was planning on installing to run some rear fill (I know most of you guys don't like the idea of rear fill, but I like the surround I get from it), off one of the channels.

You get ZERO surround from rear fill unless of course you are listening to movies or have a very odd 5.1 encoded audio collection.

Why don't you like super tweeters?  Just curious?  Not upset about not using them.  I think they were only like 25 dollars or something.  I can sell them...

They sound like utter horseshit and give you sensitivity where you don't need it.

For the meantime, I bought a heavy ass rubber pad people use to stand or place heavy vibrating objects on, to install for testing purposes.  I know it's not the same, but the weight, density, and makeup of whatever material they used appears to be somewhat similar.  Should work for testing and will be removed and replaced by MLV...

MLV needs to cover the whole area and be sealed. If that matt does that why remove it? There is NOTHING special about MLV other than outside of lead it is about as dense as any sheet product. Stopping sound transmission is done with mass, so if it is really heavy you are golden.

I'm looking for ""SQL""

No you are not. Q&L are complete opposites, putting them together in a word is dumb. And there is NEVER a Q and multiple mids &/or Supertweets. Not even close.

As for the front/rear you may not have as much output firing forward, but with eq can end up with a better result. Luckily the bass portion of an install is BY FAR the easy portion.

 

First off, I've scratched the super tweets and multiple mids.  I'm throwing ideas out, kind of thinking out loud.  I will have to disagree with you as far as "SQL", because one can be loud and sound good in the process (Unless all you're out to do is bust 160).  There are many systems out there that play 150 and a touch more that actually sound fairly musical.  Am I going for pure SQ?  No, I'm not planning on buying 2000 dollar amps and all the outrageously priced equipment that goes with that territory. 

 

Hey, if the padding I bought sounds good, then I won't remove it.  I will remove it if I don't notice any difference and get the "real" stuff that has silica and whatever else they put in it.  Maybe I should mount some 20lb dumb bells on the rear deck?    Also, with the 6x9's reflecting off the back glass, there is plenty of rear fill. Maybe "surround" isn't the correct term to use, but you get the point.  They are actually louder than my components up front.  I need to dial the gain down on the amp to match them up with the front components... 

 

I'm going to keep moving forward with the front firing sub stage build and see what comes of it.  Worse comes to worse, I flip the enclosure around and put another 20lbs of QMat on my trunk lid and call it good... It's not what I wish for, but if that's what I have to do, then that's what I have to do. 

[///M5 2,833]

First off, I've scratched the super tweets and multiple mids.

Good. My statement was to help reinforce that. It is not a good idea and anyone who has taken that approach is confused about audio.

I will have to disagree with you as far as SQL, because one can be loud and sound good in the process (Unless all you're out to do is bust 160).  There are many systems out there that play 150 and a touch more that actually sound fairly musical.  Am I going for pure SQ?  No, I'm not planning on buying 2000 dollar amps and all the outrageously priced equipment that goes with that territory.

Read the terms and conditions of the site. We don't even allow the term it is so bad. And you are flat out wrong. An SPL setup is made to play ONE note as loud as possible and SQ the opposite.

*Do note I never said EVER that something can't sound good and get loud.

At the same time I highly, highly, highly doubt you are at all interested in an SQ system. "Sounding good" is not the goal of an SQ system just as "being loud" is not the goal of an SPL. You'll get a lot farther in actually understanding what you are doing if you don't try to use terminology but instead describe your goals.

[frogcase2002 393]

Probably just trying to do what most people try to do. Get as loud as they can while still sounding decent playing music

[dharris2488 1]

Probably just trying to do what most people try to do. Get as loud as they can while still sounding decent playing music

Exactly... My bad if my terminology was wrong. 

[hondakilla98 29]

Probably just trying to do what most people try to do. Get as loud as they can while still sounding decent playing music

Exactly... My bad if my terminology was wrong.

I had a similar conversation with m5 when I first joined this forum. He comes across harsh, but he knows what he's talking about. And is great at helping put together components for an active stage. If you decide to go that route in the future.

[///M5 2,833]

Probably just trying to do what most people try to do. Get as loud as they can while still sounding decent playing music

Exactly... My bad if my terminology was wrong.

not your fault there are a bunch of idiots and huge stupidity on all other car audio forums

[dharris2488 1]

 

 

Probably just trying to do what most people try to do. Get as loud as they can while still sounding decent playing music

Exactly... My bad if my terminology was wrong.

not your fault there are a bunch of idiots and huge stupidity on all other car audio forums

 

Thanks for smoothing it over... I'm sure M5 does know his stuff, not questioning that.  It's just hard to except something after one post, when that's what's you've always known terminology to mean.  That's why I questioned it...   It would be nice if M5 would ease into the point he's trying to make with a "noob," instead of coming full throttle.  Did I learn something?  Yeah, and it's all good and I appreciate it.  I will just describe what I'm looking for from now on.  I always thought SPL meant "loudness," as in sound pressure level and "SQ" or "Q" meant Sound Quality or Quality, in the broad sense of the terms.  Like when trying to describe what I want for example:  I want more SPL but with Quality as well.  I will probably ask M5 for suggestions on what to do on the front stage of my car.  I'm sure he is full of useful info...  That's a couple weeks down the road when I get paid again! 

 

Now I know that doesn't fly on this site and shouldn't on others...  Like I said, it's all good. 

 

I have an idea for my frame I'm going to go start working on... Catch up with you guys later....  Back to work.  I'm not letting this project defeat me...

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

Don't get frustrated, the stereo is an inanimate object you have complete control over. 

 

The way you have the frame built now should work great to butt the enclosure up to. Subwoofer frequency sound waves are huge, we are talking city blocks. You are not going to stop them from traveling through an object thinner than them. My point is you will be sealed by just butting the box up and securing it. NO NEED to foam around the box.

 

A few reasons I like this setup is no road noise from the trunk, pressurizes the cabin better, more accurate sound, less unpredictable coloring of the sound, to name a few. I run my sub at about 20% when I want things to sound level and good. I crank the sub when I just want some violence. If your not trying to squeeze every last db out of the sub you should be golden.

 

As stated the best term to use would be loud and still sound good. I would guess you dont want to be an SQ snob OR a one note wonder.

 

I agree on lossing the rears, but thats not the topic at hand. 

 

Can post pics of mine sealed if you want to check them out. Is overkill but as you stated I wouldn't know until I tried it.

[dharris2488 1]

Don't get frustrated, the stereo is an inanimate object you have complete control over. 

 

The way you have the frame built now should work great to butt the enclosure up to. Subwoofer frequency sound waves are huge, we are talking city blocks. You are not going to stop them from traveling through an object thinner than them. My point is you will be sealed by just butting the box up and securing it. NO NEED to foam around the box.

 

A few reasons I like this setup is no road noise from the trunk, pressurizes the cabin better, more accurate sound, less unpredictable coloring of the sound, to name a few. I run my sub at about 20% when I want things to sound level and good. I crank the sub when I just want some violence. If your not trying to squeeze every last db out of the sub you should be golden.

 

As stated the best term to use would be loud and still sound good. I would guess you dont want to be an SQ snob OR a one note wonder.

 

I agree on lossing the rears, but thats not the topic at hand. 

 

Can post pics of mine sealed if you want to check them out. Is overkill but as you stated I wouldn't know until I tried it.

Thanks for the advise... I would love to see some pics of your sealed setup.  I have a feeling my setup will be "violent" enough with the Ethos and all the power I'm putting to them.  Should be fun.  So, you don't feel it's necessary to foam up the surrounding edges of the enclosure?  I understand what you mean about the waves, as that's why subs always sound so good in a shop.  Everything changes once it gets put in a car.  Yes, I would love as much loud as I can get, while keeping it musical and sounding good.... 

[dharris2488 1]

By the way, I'm feeling better this morning as far as frustration goes. I put in a ton of work yesterday and was tired.  Then I tried to take on the framing and my brain wasn't working.  That's when I know to clean up and take a break, otherwise I get sloppy or hurt... Right now, i'm just laying 2x4's as neatly as possible around the enclosure and mounting a piece of plywood in the trunk to cover it up.   I would still like for it to look somewhat clean...

 

Pictures would be great.  Maybe I can pull an idea from yours?  Thanks, appreciate your help... 

 

And yes, I will eventually learn the rules around here.  I guess a few more ass chewing's and I will be good to go!     Glad I'm a technical outside salesman who's had my balls handed to me on a silver platter on more than one occasion!

[frogcase2002 393]

I usually make my baffles the exact shape as the opening into the cabin when doing a "trunk wall" . Seems to make it easier for me to seal off.