To max out XCON or to underpower a ZCON?

[slim142 9]

So here is my situation

 

I have a Sundown 3500D in my car. It is a BMW 328i with factory everything.

 

Im trying to jump on the sale and buy either an XCON or a ZCON. However, what is stopping me is the rated power.

 

I plan on getting a single 12". It will, of course, be powered by the Sundown 3500D. Because it will be just one subwoofer (due to trunk space), I plan on getting a Dual 1ohm voice coil (so I can get a final load of 2ohms).

 

My question is, should I proceed and get the XCON (which at 2ohm, will be fully powered @ 1750 RMS) or get the ZCON (which would be underpowered considering its rating is 2250 RMS and I would only be feeding it 1750 RMS).

 

(the reason why Im not buying dual 2ohm voice coils to have a load of 1ohm is because my entire car is factory. I have not replaced the alternator or battery and I think asking 3500 RMS from my stock bimmer would put me in risk of damaging the electricals, wouldnt it?)

 

The price difference is not really a problem here. I just want to make sure I get the best performer for my money.

A first quick guess would make anyone think the ZCON would be the best option, but I just want to confirm a fully powered XCON will not outperform the underpowered ZCON.

 

(and yes, I plan on getting a custom enclosure from one of the vendors here to get the maximum optimal results)

 

Any help is greatly appreciated!

[Fi 4 life 0]

What are you planning to tune the box to? Big 3? Are you planning on upgrading some of your electrical?

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

No such thing as under powering, and our subwoofers are rated conservatively.  Your amplifier is rarely sending full rated power.  If you are worried about sheer output, lean towards the Zcon.  Ifyou are more worried about daily driving, lean towards the Xcon.  Both will be loud and sound great in the right enclosure.  The Zcon has the potential for greater output on that same power.

[slim142 9]

What are you planning to tune the box to? Big 3? Are you planning on upgrading some of your electrical?

 

Probably around the low 30s? I have to discuss that with whoever I decide to build the enclosure with.

No big 3, No upgrades planned to any of my electricals.

 

No such thing as under powering, and our subwoofers are rated conservatively.  Your amplifier is rarely sending full rated power.  If you are worried about sheer output, lean towards the Zcon.  Ifyou are more worried about daily driving, lean towards the Xcon.  Both will be loud and sound great in the right enclosure.  The Zcon has the potential for greater output on that same power.

 

Thanks Aaron

I use my car as well as the radio daily, but I definitely want to get the most output especially since my trunk is super sealed. Every bit of dB counts in this case. I have been aiming at the ZCON for over a year and I think the time has finally come.

[slim142 9]

I have one last question

Would it be (crazy / unnecessary / completely stupid) to buy the dual 2ohm voice coil version instead and have a final load of 1ohm?

Now that Im thinking about it, I will probably stick to one subwoofer (had plans to buy two in the future, but I doubt I will at this point) so Im not sure if I should just buy the dual 2ohm voice coil, wire it at 1ohm and keep an eye on the gain remote.

Edited November 27, 2014 by slim142

[puscifer2 27]

I have one last question

Would it be (crazy / unnecessary / completely stupid) to buy the dual 2ohm voice coil version and have a final load of 1ohm?

Now that Im thinking about it, I will probably stick to one subwoofer (had plans to buy two in the future, but I doubt I will at this point) so Im not sure if I should just buy the dual 2ohm voice coil, wire it at 1ohm and keep an eye on the gain remote.

ABSOLUTLY NOT an option if you don't plan on electrical upgrades.

[slim142 9]

 

I have one last question

Would it be (crazy / unnecessary / completely stupid) to buy the dual 2ohm voice coil version and have a final load of 1ohm?

Now that Im thinking about it, I will probably stick to one subwoofer (had plans to buy two in the future, but I doubt I will at this point) so Im not sure if I should just buy the dual 2ohm voice coil, wire it at 1ohm and keep an eye on the gain remote.

ABSOLUTLY NOT an option if you don't plan on electrical upgrades.

 

 

So in this situation, even leaving the bass knob at 50% would be very dangerous?

[Fi 4 life 0]

Its a shit load of power to try to be running off a stock alt and battery. I'd suggest at least 1 good battery added to the back (if @ 2 ohms). IMO if your spending that much $ on an amp and sub, plan no spend a few hundred getting your car ready to power that bad boy. It takes power to make power. If your planning on running it at 1 ohm, I'd suggest a bigger alt.

[slim142 9]

Its a shit load of power to try to be running off a stock alt and battery. I'd suggest at least 1 good battery added to the back (if @ 2 ohms). IMO if your spending that much $ on an amp and sub, plan no spend a few hundred getting your car ready to power that bad boy. It takes power to make power. If your planning on running it at 1 ohm, I'd suggest a bigger alt.

 

Yeah honestly, the more I think about it, the less I want to go for 1ohm load. 3500 RMS sounds like a huge stress to my car in its current factory condition.

 

So I guess I will proceed to go with the dual 1ohm voice coil (2ohm final load) and avoid any dangerous situation.

[///M5 2,833]

No brainer for you....Zcon.  Underpowering is not a viable word in the context of a sub; however, it is for sure with an amp.  Your stock electrical is seriously "underpowered" for the 3500D.  No way I'd run it without upgrading your electrical.

[Impious 1,476]

If you plan on upgrading the electrical and sticking with a single sub system, order the dual 2ohm Zcon and set the gains/sub level conservatively to keep the power output within the limits of the electrical system until the upgrade. That way when you do upgrade the electrical you don't have to worry about buying a new sub.

[slim142 9]

I dont think I will upgrade the electricals in this car. I have too many miles on it and I think a car upgrade will not be happening within the next 6 months, but probably within the next 6-12 months.

 

With that said, I think the best choice would be to play it safe and go for dual 1ohm and wire it for 1750 RMS. 

Thank you all for the useful comments!

[cloud77 28]

zcon

 

Dual 2

 

.8 nominal

[cloud77 28]

order the woofer and work on electrical during your wait for a hand built to order beauty

[Stephen93s10 40]

I wouldn't run 1750 rms on a stock electrical, how many amps is your alternator

[slim142 9]

My alternator is 180 amps according to the technical sheet (2008 BMW 328i Sedan E90).

I have no plans to upgrade the alternator. I cant justify the price of upgrading it when Im not sure how long will I be keeping this car for.

 

Also, Im not even sure how is the big 3 done in this car since the battery is in the back, everything is tight, the battery cables are all hidden, and the cables have this special fit connectors built into them for the positive and negative terminals. Sorry, not very familiar with the configuration here.

Not sure if I would need to replace my battery even if I was to go the 1750 RMS route either.

 

These are the two options I have so far

 

A) Buy dual 2ohm vc which means, buy an XS battery as well.

 

OR

 

B) Buy dual 1ohm vc and enjoy at 1750 responsibly

 

 

///M5, noway you would run the 3500D with stock electrical. Not even at 1750?

Impious, when you say "if you are planning on upgrading your electricals..." which ones do you mean? battery? big 3? alternator? all three?

[hdrox88 142]

Even option B will be risky. I have a battery under the hood, a second battery in the rear by the amp, 130 amp stock alt, big 3, and a Crescendo 3500. I am wired at 2ohm and drop down to 13.4v on heavy bass tracks. With your primary battery in the rear, you might have a chance of being ok if you are a casual listener with the occasional burst here and there. With heavy emphasis on the "might" in that sentence.

 

The 3500D is 86% efficient at 4ohm. At 2ohm, maybe 75% roughly. At 14.4v and 1750 watts that is about 162 amps. Obviously that isn't all the time as music is dynamic. But hopefully it will help you better grasp the amount of power you are trying to run, if you don't know already.

 

My .02, if your stock alt really is 180 amps, a second battery is HIGHLY recommended.

[jcarter1885 994]

I would just find a sub that will require a 4 ohm load. If you wont even upgrade the wire and/battery then dont even use that amp at 2 ohms. If you plan on doing upgrades then yes 2 ohms is fine. No point in buying equipment just to half ass it cause your electrical cant maintain. Makes no sense to me but to each its own

[pmureika 31]

I would go to a smaller amp and a sub that doesn't need as much rms. like a dcon.

If you won't upgrade the electrical then down grade the amp and sub.

I know you said you will be getting a new car within a year. Are you willing to upgrade it?

 

Do it right the first time and say yourself all the headaches !

Edited November 28, 2014 by pmureika

[slim142 9]

I would go to a smaller amp and a sub that doesn't need as much rms. like a dcon.

If you won't upgrade the electrical then down grade the amp and sub.

I know you said you will be getting a new car within a year. Are you willing to upgrade it?

 

Do it right the first time and say yourself all the headaches !

 

If I change cars, I will definitely upgrade the electricals. A new beginning deserves a better story haha.

 

The more answers that get posted, the more I'm feeling like replacing the stock battery.

 

Since the sub will take some time to arrive, I could work on the battery in the mean time. Im thinking an XS D4800 which seems to fit my car according the XS website. I really wish I knew about the big 3 in this car, a quick google search didnt bring anything I could use other than the current wiring in the car is 2 gauge.

Edited November 28, 2014 by slim142

[95Honda 486]

Couple of things to point out about this thread-

 

1)  The RMS rating is NOT a power requirement, nor is it any indication of how loud a driver will get with a certain amount of power.  I has no relation to output whatsoever, it is simply a thermal rating of the voicecoil, nothing else.  Do not base anything output wise off of an RMS rating, period.

 

2)  The nominal impedance is an average rating, your overall alignment determines the final load the amplifier sees.  Don't assume that an amplifier will be putting out half the power if you double the driver impedance.

 

3)  There is no such thing as underpowering...

[a1sauce47 0]

Couple of things to point out about this thread-

1) The RMS rating is NOT a power requirement, nor is it any indication of how loud a driver will get with a certain amount of power. I has no relation to output whatsoever, it is simply a thermal rating of the voicecoil, nothing else. Do not base anything output wise off of an RMS rating, period.

2) The nominal impedance is an average rating, your overall alignment determines the final load the amplifier sees. Don't assume that an amplifier will be putting out half the power if you double the driver impedance.

3) There is no such thing as underpowering...

As I've been scanning through this forum I've noticed a lot of people saying no such thing as under powering so basically what im understanding is I can run my 1000 watt RMS rated sub on 100 watts and it will be just as loud with the same output as if I run it at its max rating

[a1sauce47 0]

I'm not trying to be a dick just trying to see eye to eye here

[a1sauce47 0]

OK I did some researching and I get it now . I've learned more through this forum in 3 days than I have in a year on any other audio related website .

[Stephen93s10 40]

OK I did some researching and I get it now . I've learned more through this forum in 3 days than I have in a year on any other audio related website .

The best Audio forum that I know of