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Arno Ferero

Looking for a new amp (current one's not doing so well)

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Hi guys, my current amp is starting to give me some issues (well I think it is). It is an option audio OA1200 powering a Fi Q12 at 1ohm, and I have had it for about 5 years now but I don't think it's dealing too well with a 1ohm load (it has been running at 2ohms till now when I got the Q). When I initially hooked everything up I set the gains using my oscilloscope, the HU did not clip even at full volume, and the amp started clipping at ~1/3 turn using both a 60hz and 30hz sine wave. Anyway, a couple of weeks later I noticed the sub was getting hot, which should not really happen on 1200w,so i decided to inspect the system again. I checked my 4 channel amp, and that was still fine, but when i got to the OA1200 it was clipping severely (starting to resemble a square wave), even with the gain all the way down it was still clipping quite badly and it is putting out considerably less power because of it. All EQ, loudness, level, etc settings are off/set to zero, and the only thing I have changed is the time alignment settings (but that should not have an effect). The headunit (DEH-80PRS) is not clipping either, however, according to the oscilloscope it is putting out about 6.5v at the pre outs which is quite high but probably no different from when I installed it originally. 

 

That amp did not supply quite enough power anyway, so unless someone has some other ideas as to how I could fix my problem, I am in the market for a new amp.

 

The Q is rated at 1.5k rms, and I have also added the cooling option so it will probably be able to take a bit more.

 

I'm looking for something:

- between 1.5k rms and 2.5k rms (some headroom would be nice, so I don't have to run the amp right up to clipping, and for possible future upgrades)

- something that is absolutely 100% 1ohm stable

- a fairly low input sensitivity (so it can handle the 6.5v output, and leave me some room to adjust the gain)

- a small form factor would be nice, but is not a deal breaker

- budget wise, my absolute top end limit would be around $750. That being said, I would prefer to spend less if I can get a quality product, but i'd rather buy right and buy once and get something that I know will last me many years.

 

Some I have looked at so far:

 

Crescendo s1500.1

- I like it's small form factor

- Does more than rated power (according tom youtube around 1800w)

- Looking at the pictures, it looks like it has a setting for high and low input voltages (though there's no info about that on the specs sheet)

- and it's cheap!!

 

I'm not 100% sure about the quality though, and I'm not a fan of it's looks.

 

 

Incriminator Audio IA20.1

Don't really know that much about these but damn, just look at that thing http://www.incriminatoraudio.com/index.php/products/amplifiers/ia20-1-mono-block.html

The only thing I am unsure about is it's input sensitivity of 6v - 0.2v (would like some opinions on that)

 

I've also always been a fan of Sundown

also, what about Zapco

 

Some opinions on these would be awesome, as well as any other suggestions you guys have. (I have literally not looked at amps in 5 years)

 

Thanks in advance!!

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Of the two you asked about, the Incriminator is a nice piece and has shown to consistently put out more power than rated.  

 

If you can make room for a normal footprint sized amp, the US Acoustics Mike, that pete suggested is a nice value option, as well as the Synergy WFO 15.1: http://store.soundsolutionsaudio.com/categories/amplifiers/synergy-audio.html and SoundQubed   http://store.soundsolutionsaudio.com/products/sound-qubed-q1-1200d-amplifier.html along with the Ampere  http://store.soundsolutionsaudio.com/products/ampere-audio-aa-2000-1-2000w-mono-block-amplifier.html

 

All depends on the features, size, budget you are good with in the end.

 

The Incriminator seems to check all your boxes.

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Thanks for all the replies! those all look like nice amps. The mike looks really nice, and I like that the ampere has an adjustable phase setting.

 

Just curious to know if anyone has any opinion on the input sensitivity? Most amps I have looked at, including the ones you have mentioned, and the IA20.1 have an input sensitivity of 0.2v to 6v. Since my head unit puts out more than that @~6.5, that would mean that these amps would be at clipping even with the gain all the way down? Am I right? I would love some info on that (maybe from someone running a DEH-80PRS like me)

 

Thanks once again!

Arno

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If your headunit puts out that much voltage you can clip just about any amp regardless of gain setting.

 

Are you reading RMS/Average with your scope or Peak-Peak?  The gain settings are rating in RMS...  If you are reading Peak-Peak, the RMS is less than half of that value.

 

That unit has an adjustable sub output, right?  If so, all of the amp gain problems are a non issue...

 

You might already be at the output capabilities of the sub depending on your enclosure, and more power could make things worse.

 

BTW, your 1200 watt amp could be possibly creating 2400 watts under the conditions you are describing, that could easily cook you Fi Q!

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Of the two you asked about, the Incriminator is a nice piece and has shown to consistently put out more power than rated.  

 

If you can make room for a normal footprint sized amp, the US Acoustics Mike, that pete suggested is a nice value option, as well as the Synergy WFO 15.1: http://store.soundsolutionsaudio.com/categories/amplifiers/synergy-audio.html and SoundQubed   http://store.soundsolutionsaudio.com/products/sound-qubed-q1-1200d-amplifier.html along with the Ampere  http://store.soundsolutionsaudio.com/products/ampere-audio-aa-2000-1-2000w-mono-block-amplifier.html

 

All depends on the features, size, budget you are good with in the end.

 

The Incriminator seems to check all your boxes.

Mike is a nice little amplifier!!!! that q1-1200d.1 is a little beast for the price!!!

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Aaah! that would be it, I was reading peak to peak, and I was assuming that was what the input sensitivity of the amps where rated at as well.

 

I might just give some more info here. The sub is running at 1 ohm, in a 2.3cuft ported enclosure tuned to 32hz (i'm pretty sure you helped me in a previous post 95honda, so you might remember this). After I had some bugs fixed initially I was very happy with my system, It was more than loud enough and sounded great. Anyway, like I said before, a couple of weeks later it did not sound right, and the sub was getting hot even though it was not as loud as it was initially. that's when I realised it was clipping, even with the gain all the way down, like I said in my first post that was not the case when I installed it originally and is not happening to my 4 channel amp (eclipse XA4200). Anyway, that is the situation.

 

In terms of the new amp, I'm not looking at necessarily giving the sub more power, I just figured while I am upgrading, I might as well get me something that leaves me a bit of headroom. Both in terms of not running the amp right at clipping point to supply the necessary power, and for a future system upgrade (where i can run either more power, or run at a 2ohm load instead of 1 etc etc)

 

95honda, could you be able to explain to me how my amp could be putting out 2400w? I'm not arguing, I would just like to know.

 

Thanks 

 

 

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If an amplifier is rated into a sine wave (they are) and the power supply can keep, they can produce much more power producing different waveforms.  They can produce up to 2x the sine wave rated power into a pure square wave (this rarely happens, but you can get close to it if you are really giving it hell).

 

If your alignment requires more than your current 1200 watts to reach full linear output (assuming the amp isn't damaged or you have a setting somewhere else in the signal chain wrong) then more power may help.

 

It sounds like something else it wrong, though.  I would just double/triple check before spending money on another amp...

 

Also, 1200 watts continuously will make ANY woofer warm...

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Thanks for the reply mate! Makes sense!

 

I'll make sure to check everything again over the weekend, because I might be jumping to conclusions here. Out of the 4 people who bought an OA1200D with me, mine is the only one that lasted more than a year (mine's lasted 5) so I've always been waiting for it to let go, Or maybe I'm just looking for an excuse to get a new amp jman.gif .

 

1200watts drove this set-up very well when I installed it initially, and the difference between 1200 and 1500 on the output of the sub would be quite small anyway. But my assumption here is that my amp is faulty, and is not putting out full power any more. So my main reason for looking at a new amp was not because I was after more power, but because I needed a new amp and since I have to buy one anyway (if my assumption is correct), I might as well get a more powerful one. 

 

But I'll check everything first before I pull the trigger.

 

On a side note from this reply (but in line with the topic). How do you find you BC3500D? as I am also considdering the BC2000D.

 

Thanks

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Is this issue something that just happened? Like a night and day difference? Or did it happen slowly over time? Was anything changed around the time you noticed things going wrong? Maybe check your power and ground connections. If the connections are as old as the amp(even if they aren't) it might not be a bad idea to check them all at this point. Loose, bent, corroded, etc. if the amp is struggling to make power that it isn't receiving, that would surely cause problems.

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op if you have the electrical id go with the IA20.1   hands down a very GOOD amp   you get what you pay for in the car audio world.

what are your box specs right now??   i ran an 18'' Q (07ish era that had bp option) on a mmats dhcx2200.1 for over 4 years ported and sealed.  zero issues 

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Hdrox88, It's actually a bit hard to say. I was very happy with the system at first, and then slowly got more and more disappointed with it, however, I can not confirm if the amp was clipping yet at that stage....

On the hu I have, you have the ability to to run an active crossover network on your front speakers (so my 4 channel amp used 2 channels for the mids, and 2 for the tweeters, crossed at the head unit). Anyway, that is not how I had it set up initially. After a while I decided to give it a try, and rewired the front speakers. It was then that I decided to set the gains again, and that's when I noticed my Sub amp was clipping. After I turned the head unit down to a point where I was able to set the gain at all, that is when I noticed a night and day difference.

So basically, I think it happened gradually, but I can't be sure, as I never checked the gains up until that point.

So that was the only thing I changed at that time, though I would not think that would have an effect on the sub? The only other thing I changed since I first set it up was the time alignment settings and crossover settings, but I doubt that would have an effect either.

The grounds are all brands new, but it is very possible that there is a bad connection somewhere, so that is a great suggestion of something to check!

Thanks for your reply mate!

Tc300, thanks for your input also. That ia20.1 looks the goods! It's a bit of a stretch for my budget, but im sure it would be worth it. Glad to hear that your Fi handled that power! I have a lot of confidence that mine would too, the build quality is amazing. Mine is in a 2.3cuft box tuned to 32hz atm

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If the amp is broke, then yes, I would replace.

 

I installed an BC3500 last year.  It is ton of power and a HUGE amp.  It works fine.

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I bought a Q1200.1 last yr, and If I were buying a 300 dollar amp again- I'd pay the extra for the Crescendo.  1700 w in that small a footprint is amazing.

 

The IA is a BEAST, and not even in the same category IMO.  I shoulda bout the 40.1 when they were on sale way back when.

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Tc300, thanks for your input also. That ia20.1 looks the goods! It's a bit of a stretch for my budget, but im sure it would be worth it. Glad to hear that your Fi handled that power! I have a lot of confidence that mine would too, the build quality is amazing. Mine is in a 2.3cuft box tuned to 32hz atm

 

 

in car audio you get what you pay for 97% of the time.. spend the xtra money for that nice IA20.1!!  its a momster of an amp and will leave you some head room if you want to upgrade in the future..  i spent around $900 on that MMATS amp back in 04ish   used it for around 9 years till a power supply gave out...  

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