Raising the stage above the dash

[SpeakerBoy 64]

Open to all suggestions, as I'm pulling my hair out trying to combat this, and I'm not sure where to attack first, as aiming is only helping partly 

 

For reference, i drive a 98 mountaineer (ford Explorer) 

 

I can't get vocals to come from above the dash withtweets at the A pillar and 6.5's in the factory locations. I REALLY dont want my tweeters in my doors. It looks awful on my doors. 

The best luck i had was with a pair of 4" noname coaxials up on the dash aimed at the dome light, from 350hz up, midbass 50-350 and the 18 from fifty down. I have time alignment currently, and am lining up to replace my HU as well as add in a MiniDSP, but for now, i want to get this answered before i buh anything else. 

 

  Ive heard some people catch flak for using coaxials in a three way (I'm guessjng because it means you're limited on your m-t xover point) , so my question is,

 

what's the simplest way to bring my stage up? I am fine with passive, or active. Ill even try three way active, but id like to keep the number of variables down for now, as aiming is kicking my ass.

 

 

, the better i get with audio, the more i realize i dont know. 

 

Edited March 23, 2016 by SpeakerBoy

[SpeakerBoy 64]

I'm trying to get the sound to seem like its coming from over the steering wheel, like the singer is on the hood of the car ish

 

 

 

Sorry for all the typos

Cracked my phone last night

Edited March 23, 2016 by SpeakerBoy

[lithium 358]

I had some pretty sweet imagining with fullrangers on the dash aimed on axis at the driver's head. To get there with a woofer/tweeter 2way you need to really dial in the xover and EQ. 

[///M5 2,833]

First worry about your frequency response.  Stage height is meh in comparison.  Dial in the response and you'll stop caring where it is coming from.

[SpeakerBoy 64]

a pair of 3.5's and a pair of 8's should be plenty of output to keep up with my 18 at reasonable to moderate volumes with 100rms/ch on tap, yeah? I've pretty much accepted that there isn't a way to keep up at full tilt as far as midbass goes, I would just like a decent volume range. 
I'm very conflicted on deadening anything but the doors because of the condition of my truck, but I can't stand how loud my minimum listening volume is sometimes (to cover road noise). 
I really didn't expect substage to be the easiest and cheapest part of my systems when I got into this hobby, ugh. 
I could always gut this when I scoop the avi and move all the deadener and pods over. Idfk, i'm overwhelmed with audio for the day.

Looks like i'll have to iron some of it out with the minidsp first and get back to this.
 

Edited March 23, 2016 by SpeakerBoy

[///M5 2,833]

3.5s will require a tweet if you can't get 100% on axis.  And yes bass is cheap and easy....

[///M5 2,833]

Don't expect full rangers to be loud either as that is NOT where they excel

[SpeakerBoy 64]

1 hour ago, ///M5 said:

3.5s will require a tweet if you can't get 100% on axis.  And yes bass is cheap and easy....

Any reason you'd stay away from coaxials as the full range? I just ordered a pair of Pioneer a878's to play with with change off some amazon cards, was kinda excited to see how they do. I can't remember the context, I just remember someone else asking this same question, however i'm not sure it was the same application as i'm after here. 

If a standard driver is better for this purpose, i'd like to try some daytons, i've always been happy with my dayton products in the past, price point is hard to argue with too. 

Off topic, but have you messed with GRS speakers? 

Edited March 23, 2016 by SpeakerBoy

[///M5 2,833]

1 hour ago, SpeakerBoy said:

Any reason you'd stay away from coaxials as the full range? I just ordered a pair of Pioneer a878's to play with with change off some amazon cards, was kinda excited to see how they do. I can't remember the context, I just remember someone else asking this same question, however i'm not sure it was the same application as i'm after here. 

If a standard driver is better for this purpose, i'd like to try some daytons, i've always been happy with my dayton products in the past, price point is hard to argue with too. 

Off topic, but have you messed with GRS speakers? 

I'd stay away from garbage speakers and extra crossovers especially when they are shitty.  More drivers usually makes a worse speaker not a better one.

GRS are chinese built crap.  Don't bother.  I've not seen a Dayton full range I'd run either.

You need to decide where you want to install before what.  You are shopping backwards again...

[SpeakerBoy 64]

14 hours ago, ///M5 said:

I'd stay away from garbage speakers and extra crossovers especially when they are shitty.  More drivers usually makes a worse speaker not a better one.

GRS are chinese built crap.  Don't bother.  I've not seen a Dayton full range I'd run either.

You need to decide where you want to install before what.  You are shopping backwards again...

 interested in them for fun, they are  so stupid cheap, seen a few projects on PE that looked fun if I could do them on a budget like that. Nobody i know personally can tell shit from high end so it makes for easy gifts. 

Im getting my a pillars done this summer, i have plenty of time to change the equipment list. I know WHAT i want, but I'm crashing and burning trying to get there.  I'll mount fried chicken on my a pillars if it gets me the sound i want lol

 

 

[///M5 2,833]

Maybe sharing what you want since you know it would help.  Guarantee it isn't GRS...

[SpeakerBoy 64]

25 minutes ago, ///M5 said:

Maybe sharing what you want since you know it would help.  Guarantee it isn't GRS...

Nonono, not for my car lol, i mean for a garage speaker, or kitchen speakers. Like I said, off topic lol

I like when the speakers cant be found with your eyes closed. Like the singer is singing to you, not at you from various places in the car. I don't like harsh tweets, i like a neutral sound better; i LOVED my amt tweets but was a little careless with them and got a buncha shit in the foil. I like sharp tight midbass, that you can feel in your chest, i HATE muddy/boomy mids. I listen to everything between rap, jazz, metal, country (blow me), dub, so i can't have a set that favors a particular range. Cosmetics have never mattered as much as functionality. Ever. Ugly and pristine sounding is fine by me. 

Edited March 24, 2016 by SpeakerBoy

[SpeakerBoy 64]

Made a decision. Canceled my order for the 3.5's and ordered a 6.5" component set instead. I'm going to cut some mdf panels this week, seal my doors up, and order from sds. Then, install the 900.4, ditch the passives and start from there. Still have like a pound of clay left so I'll fuck with positioning until i get the response I want, then I'll revisit achieving sufficient output. Tackling both at once isn't working.

Edited March 24, 2016 by SpeakerBoy

[///M5 2,833]

That was fast.  What 6.5 and 3.5?

[SpeakerBoy 64]

I had originally ordered pioneer a878 3.5's, instead ordered some fosgate primes. R16-s. 40 bucks for either option lol

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/details/r16-s

 

Not particularly a fan of fosgate speakers, mostly just like the 2500bd and the 4000bd. But, they were pocket change so I thought I'd try them. 

 

My previous speakers were Sony midbass and dayton amt's. Aside from getting them dirty, learned they like a much higher crossover than my current shit equipment could provide. 

Edited March 25, 2016 by SpeakerBoy

[///M5 2,833]

The a878's have zero place in car audio or audio for that matter.  Complete and utter horseshit.

[SpeakerBoy 64]

So I'm thinking Morel 1075's and Dayton AMT Pro's for a new frontstage after I rebuild the box for the btl.

Ive heard lotsa good stuff about morel and I loved the Maximo's got to hear, but I've never bought raw drivers from them before. Does anyone have an opinion?

Additionally, was considering the Morel CAT-378 instead of the amtpro, the Daytons are massive...

 

However I can say next to my BTL, my AMT's I currently own are my favorite drivers I've ever owned. Such....ease

[///M5 2,833]

A 10" driver does not work as a mid in a car.  No way, no how.

[Billy Jack 145]

16 minutes ago, ///M5 said:

A 10" driver does not work as a mid in a car.  No way, no how.

Even I know that much. I would never use anything over a 8" and if I could help it I would stick to 61/2's.

[Randal Johnson 544]

Can someone please refresh my memory, but Is there factory speaker locations on the dash of that Mountaineer ???

[Randal Johnson 544]

Why is it every time I post something it double post ??? 

Edited July 8, 2016 by Randal Johnson

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

On 7/8/2016 at 6:44 PM, Randal Johnson said:

Why is it every time I post something it double post ??? 

There was a temporary bug in the forum software, I have been working with the developers to squash the bugs one at a time.

[///M5 2,833]

On 7/8/2016 at 5:44 PM, Randal Johnson said:

Can someone please refresh my memory, but Is there factory speaker locations on the dash of that Mountaineer ???

Even if there is unless it is 100% on axis (I know it isn't) then it means 3 way which IMO is beyond the scope of what he should chew atm.

[Randal Johnson 544]

5 hours ago, ///M5 said:

Even if there is unless it is 100% on axis (I know it isn't) then it means 3 way which IMO is beyond the scope of what he should chew atm.

Thank you Sean.

[edouble101 314]

There are a bunch of methods that could be used to raise the sound stage. T/A and level setting is a must. If the output level of your door speakers is louder than your a-pillar mounted tweeters you'll never get a high stage. Level match all your speakers in your front stage then T/A.

Also cut 2khz a tad, that will help with depth too. Remember if you cut one band you should have a smooth transition to the adjoining bands.