Can only one speaker be out of phase, and the other be in phase?

[///M5 2,833]

Odd as in done without thought.  "oh look, normal, let's pick that!"

HPF at least at 40Hz if you are always cranking the piss out of it and you hear a problem on the low end raise it more.  Safest to start higher, but you already did lower (ie off) so no real reason to.

Where are the crossovers?  How about the eq/fader/bal on the h/u?

[Florida_Audio 55]

i keep getting weird error messages, internal server error, when trying to post... maybe cause post is too big lol?

when you asked about crossovers, do you mean the tweeter crossover? or the headunit? the tweeter ones at at their lowest setting, - 6db. i dont think theres any other option on that crossover, its a passive one (not sure if that matters)

 

the eq is parametric. the higher end bands are:  6 (1kHz-4kHz), Band 7 (2kHz-7.2kHz), Band 8 (5.8 kHz-12kHz), Band 9 (9kHz-20kHz)

i set band 6 to -6 db, band 7 and band 8 are both at -7db, and band 9 is at -2 db. the sibilance is still strong in vocals, but less strong than they are when the EQ is flat. i do loose some sound quality, but i can actually listen to the music at these levels.

and what do you mean by the HPF should be at least 40 hz? you mean it should never be lower, right? asking this because earlier you said its a bummer it does not go below 40 hz?

 

i see that the headunit can set its own HPF. id assume its better to choose to alter the headunit or the amp, not both?

heres the info about it. i have never altered these. should i use the HPF on the headunit and leave the amp set where it is?

 

 

Edited April 21, 2016 by Florida_Audio

[///M5 2,833]

It is preferable to use a single one.  I like my mids to dig deep and run the HPF as LOW as possible without causing them stress.

What do you mean by sibilance?  Please don't post the definition as that I am not asking, but am wondering what you are hearing.

Yanking 6dB on the crossover and another 6+dB on the eq is monstrous....can't be right.

I wanted to see the crossovers for a reason.  You need to change the phase for 1 driver at a time.  Did the idiots who did the install put the crossovers in the door?  If so, they should be shot...

[Florida_Audio 55]

4 hours ago, ///M5 said:

It is preferable to use a single one.  I like my mids to dig deep and run the HPF as LOW as possible without causing them stress.

What do you mean by sibilance?  Please don't post the definition as that I am not asking, but am wondering what you are hearing.

Yanking 6dB on the crossover and another 6+dB on the eq is monstrous....can't be right.

I wanted to see the crossovers for a reason.  You need to change the phase for 1 driver at a time.  Did the idiots who did the install put the crossovers in the door?  If so, they should be shot...

yes crossover is in the door sadly. thats why i need to keep taking off the panel.

by sibilance im hearing the "S" mostly at the end of words, but also at the beginning of words, sounding piercing and sharp, MUCH more prominent than any other sound and it hurts to listen to when my volume is up high enough to enjoy the other parts of the music. thats why ive used the EQ to drop the range of 4khz to like 8khz quite alot. but still has crazy sibilance. i have no clue why?

i keep trying to post the crossover info but keep getting that internal server error, even now.

[Florida_Audio 55]

 

Crossover System: The Alpine CDE-164BT offers a 2-way and 3-way crossover system setup for greater flexibility with various speaker system configurations.

2-Way: Allows you to set up a high-pass and low-pass crossover network for a standard Front, Rear, and Subwoofer speaker setup using either speaker-level or low-level outputs.

 

 

Edited April 21, 2016 by Florida_Audio

[///M5 2,833]

The bummer with the in door installation is now you need to go in there and unplug the mids to listen to just the tweeters.  Curious if the sibilance follows them or the mid.  Then you need to start swapping phase in every combination.  First just the tweeters playing alone, then the mids alone, then all together in ALL combinations.  I'd adjust everything to flat first....

I'd seriously contemplate removing the crossovers from the doors and putting them where you can reach them.  Serious pain in the ass to swap things back and forth a ton and put the door back on.  You CANNOT do these tests with the door open, you need the whole car as it will be as you drive.

[Florida_Audio 55]

2 hours ago, ///M5 said:

The bummer with the in door installation is now you need to go in there and unplug the mids to listen to just the tweeters.  Curious if the sibilance follows them or the mid.  Then you need to start swapping phase in every combination.  First just the tweeters playing alone, then the mids alone, then all together in ALL combinations.  I'd adjust everything to flat first....

I'd seriously contemplate removing the crossovers from the doors and putting them where you can reach them.  Serious pain in the ass to swap things back and forth a ton and put the door back on.  You CANNOT do these tests with the door open, you need the whole car as it will be as you drive.

its probably pretty difficult to move the crossover location? since i dont know much about the wires and such.

wondering how long it might take a normal person who knows how to do it? that might give me an idea if i should even attempt it or not?

im not sure the tweeters can be played out of phase? i thought with how this tweeter is setup, its just one way. but the woofer can be changed for its phase?

since you said the gains look to be done without thought, should i try and fix the gains?

[///M5 2,833]

Problem isn't the gains...

Time to move the crossovers?  Need to find out where you can tap into the wires that go into the door and then move them there.  Will require pulling another 2 wires into each door.

ANY driver can have the phase flipped.  Just reverse the +/- and it will be 180deg different.

 

[Florida_Audio 55]

1 hour ago, ///M5 said:

Problem isn't the gains...

Time to move the crossovers?  Need to find out where you can tap into the wires that go into the door and then move them there.  Will require pulling another 2 wires into each door.

ANY driver can have the phase flipped.  Just reverse the +/- and it will be 180deg different.

 

ok thanks. ill start reading up on this... ugh i hate how i paid to have this installed, and yet im dealing with this issues now.

so i wouldnt have to add any extra wires, just unplug some wires from the crossover. then move the crossover outside the pane. and then feed those wires i unplugged through the door, to the crossovers new location?

thanks for help.

[///M5 2,833]

There is one wire with two conductors going into your door (and therefore into the crossover).  You need 2 wires with 2 conductors going into your door (and therefore need to pull one more wire with 2 conductors).

Don't completely blame the installers, they were doing I am sure what they thought you and everyone else wants.  

[Florida_Audio 55]

On 4/21/2016 at 1:55 PM, ///M5 said:

There is one wire with two conductors going into your door (and therefore into the crossover).  You need 2 wires with 2 conductors going into your door (and therefore need to pull one more wire with 2 conductors).

Don't completely blame the installers, they were doing I am sure what they thought you and everyone else wants.  

update!

so i just found the time do this the following:

take off left door panel to see if the speaker was loose and look for anything else that might be loose, and double check the crossover. everything looked fine, as far as i could tell.

i then disconnected the negative battery terminal.

swapped the polarity at the amplifier for only one speaker. connected battery, and found now it was definently out of phase. lol sounded horrible, even worse.

so i think re swapped the speaker to make it back to normal.

and i then swapped both RCA cables, cause not sure which is connected to speakers. swapped both RCAs from left to right. so now balancing on headunit to the right, affects the left speaker. BUT, both speakers sound perfect now!

im assuming the RCA just was not pushed in firmly.... so, my question is, is it okay to have left and right RCA swapped? it wont cause any harm at all, right? im pretty sure its fine, but just double checking!

thanks!

[///M5 2,833]

Whole stage will be backwards.

[Florida_Audio 55]

1 hour ago, ///M5 said:

Whole stage will be backwards.

what do you mean? if u dont mind be asking?

the rear speakers and run on the headunit. i did not touch the rear speakers.

the front speakers are run on the amplifier. and the 2nd set of RCA are for the subwoofer, which i dont have yet.

 

also, the speaker wire copper, seemed to fall apart quite alot when i took it out of the amplifier. is this normal? i just twisted it a slight bit and then placed it inside the whole, and screwed it in place. but it made a bit of a mess with many tiny copper wire pieces.

 

Edited April 26, 2016 by Florida_Audio

[///M5 2,833]

If you switch the right and left input the right right side of the stage will play out of the left speaker and vice versa

[Florida_Audio 55]

1 hour ago, ///M5 said:

If you switch the right and left input the right right side of the stage will play out of the left speaker and vice versa

yea when using the balancing feature on headunit it is inverted. but i dont think theres any real noticeable differences? left and right should play nearly identical, correct?

and wondering about the copper wire just like falling apart quite rapidly, if thats normal? or a sign of horrible quality wire?

[///M5 2,833]

Copper has a low fatigue life.  Can't say.

It would drive me NUTS if musicians swapped places on stage.

[Florida_Audio 55]

1 hour ago, ///M5 said:

Copper has a low fatigue life.  Can't say.

It would drive me NUTS if musicians swapped places on stage.

ok thanks lol. ill swap the left and right and see how it sounds, if different, ill keep it as the proper left and right.

i only swapped them to test the speakers and see why it might be sounding bad. but i figured it was because one RCA probably wasnt pushed in well enough, might have been slightly loose. and i already had battery connected and it started to rain, so i left left and right inverted. i dont know if i really noticed anything different but i will see.

low fatigue life, ill look that up to see what it means? the wire was just used within 1 month ago, not sure if that matters.

 

i know if like, watching a movie, people are talking on right of screen, u should hear sound from right speaker, id assume. but with music i cant see how it would matter too much?

[altoncustomtech 773]

It sounds like they probably used cheap wire, possibly even CCA wire. Not a huge deal unless it's so bad that it starts breaking in the middle of the wire run, then it will definitely need to be replaced. Copper alone is a soft metal with little tolerance for abuse or fatiguing actions like repeated sharp bends or being squished under a turning set screw. That kind of stuff simply does a given amount damage and over time will wear it out. The quality of the wire will make a difference in how long that period of time is. In general it's not an issue but I've seen some super cheap wire over the years that was super easy to break and consequently wasn't even worth using. 

[Florida_Audio 55]

1 hour ago, altoncustomtech said:

It sounds like they probably used cheap wire, possibly even CCA wire. Not a huge deal unless it's so bad that it starts breaking in the middle of the wire run, then it will definitely need to be replaced. Copper alone is a soft metal with little tolerance for abuse or fatiguing actions like repeated sharp bends or being squished under a turning set screw. That kind of stuff simply does a given amount damage and over time will wear it out. The quality of the wire will make a difference in how long that period of time is. In general it's not an issue but I've seen some super cheap wire over the years that was super easy to break and consequently wasn't even worth using. 

ok thanks. yea it literally just fell apart when i was slightly twisting it, to make it fit into the amplifier hole. so it would slide in easier.

i noticed after i put the wire in, that there were tons of tiny pieces of wires all over the front of the amplifier on the surface where it was mounted. i just blew it away.