Left tweeter seems to be dying, sounds weak

[Billy Jack 145]

1 hour ago, ///M5 said:

 

[Billy Jack 145]

So you think your stereo sounds better out of phase with some of your speakers playing backwards. So would you really take a wall of subs and just have some pushing in and others pushing out at the same time. No wonder you think NVX is the stuff lol noob.

[///M5 2,833]

19 minutes ago, Billy Jack said:

So you think your stereo sounds better out of phase with some of your speakers playing backwards. So would you really take a wall of subs and just have some pushing in and others pushing out at the same time. No wonder you think NVX is the stuff lol noob.

You forgot to google cancellation.  Wiki knows more than you and that is uber sad.

Feel free in your exuberance to try to explain differently though.  There are many of us that are waiting to "learn" from you.

[///M5 2,833]

2 hours ago, Florida_Audio said:

ok thanks. so... i did some extensive testing as far as my standards go

a few things i did. were trying different combinations of swapping the speaker wires on the amp. from polarity to swapping the channels. and swapping the RCAs. Swapping RCA and speaker wires in different combinations. and overall doing ANY of them it seems to produce no difference whatsoever. except when i change the polarity. and i dont like the sound it produces then.

These are my findings, and i think i am done!

1) the left mid bass speaker plays a bit less bass than the right mid bass speaker. (this i assume is due to how the mid bass speakers were installed. maybe slightly different deadening around them?)

2) the right tweeter, which used to be on the left, plays lower volume than the current left tweeter. the tweeter ive though all along had issues, seems it does. the main noticeable thing is that it plays volume lower and the highs are not as crisp. while i do actually like the less crisp high notes, it also plays a crackling noise at certain parts of songs and sounds slightly distorted. (so i am going to send in the right tweeter as i believe it is causing the issue)

3) the left and right door speakers, tweeter and mid bass are angled at a slightly different angle.... from driver side to passenger side, which im sure causes a slight variation in how sound is heard.... i just noticed this slight angle difference.

BUT..... all i changed were the speaker wires at the amp, and the RCA at the amp. but now all of a sudden the headunit is shutting off for 1 second and then turning back on.... randomly.... it was doing it around once every 60 seconds or so. and then at one point it went full stupid and shut off and on again 2 times in a row within 10 seconds. but then went back to being on again.... what could be causing this new issue.... i only swapped cables around at the amp, speaker wire and rca only........

but i did notice that one of the speaker wires, the copper part sticking out of the rubber does seem to be quite small. like the lead tip of a pencil almost... i dont know if this is causing the headunit to restart? id assume it would just affect the sound from the speakers not make the headunit turn off and on again...?

also when the headunit would restart, it did not change in frequency based on the volume of music. because the headunit actually did that double restart within 10 seconds when the volume was at a lower level.

I'd check for a wire grounding between two terminals.  or, ie just redo all the connections and make sure that they are all clean and tight.  If the problem then still follows the tweet I'd send it in.

[Florida_Audio 55]

hey m5 so would a multimeter help me? if not what would? its very difficult to really pinpoint the exact issue still...

some songs sound better than others and my opinion keeps somewhat changing. although im still somewhat convinced the tweeter has issues. yet at times its hard to tell......

Edited July 30, 2016 by Florida_Audio

[///M5 2,833]

Measuring an impedance curve could provide insight, but resistance not so much.  ie, an el cheapo multimeter won't do anything for you...

[Florida_Audio 55]

1 hour ago, ///M5 said:

Measuring an impedance curve could provide insight, but resistance not so much.  ie, an el cheapo multimeter won't do anything for you...

lol ok thanks. yea id be looking into a cheapo one since i dont really know how to use one or when i would ever use one again, other than now. im considering asking another local shop nearby if they have any equipment such as an advanced multimeter and/or feel confident in trouble shooting these things.... id hate to go in ask them to look at it and say theres nothing they can do and still charge me a stupid fee. but i feel as though ive done all i can as of now? i may just send in the tweeter, and hook up new tweeter when i get it. and then go from there. depending on how it sounds after, i may need to bring it to another shop to get someone with more experience have a look and get their opinion. but im very hesitant to bring to my car to any shop due to the other one being bad, and i feel like they will all try to take advantage of me and charge me for doing almost nothing or make up some issues just to get paid more.

[///M5 2,833]

Advanced wont help.  You could measure an impedance curve one note at a time...but something like a woofer tester would be way easier.

[Billy Jack 145]

1 hour ago, ///M5 said:

You forgot to google cancellation.  Wiki knows more than you and that is uber sad.

Feel free in your exuberance to try to explain differently though.  There are many of us that are waiting to "learn" from you.

What are you running in that M5 a house stereo? You got 5.1 Dolby surround in your Saab?

[Florida_Audio 55]

1 hour ago, ///M5 said:

Advanced wont help.  You could measure an impedance curve one note at a time...but something like a woofer tester would be way easier.

whats a woofer tester?

and i thought u said a cheap multimeter wont work?

so how would i test one note at a time? test tones? around how much should i expect to pay for a multimeter that can do this?

thanks!

edit: just looked up woofer tester and these things look expensive? at least $100? and i would have to completely remove the speakers to test each individually? wow?

1 hour ago, Billy Jack said:

What are you running in that M5 a house stereo? You got 5.1 Dolby surround in your Saab?

im trying to get help. and m5 is really nice enough to spend time and answer my questions. please can you stop these petty comments. contribute something positive or go elsewhere

Edited July 30, 2016 by Florida_Audio

[///M5 2,833]

Come on Billy, stop being a Sally.  Teach us if you know something.  Seems to me even you don't believe that otherwise you would respond differently.

****back on topic like the thread should stay****

And yes, the woofer tester will show you the differences in the drivers.  Everything it does CAN be simulated with a multimeter, a frequency generator, a high accuracy resistor, an amplifier, and some random stuff around your house.  Not hard to do, but not trivial either.  

Of course that will give you more than you need, but you do need Impedance at different frequencies.  At some they will surely be similar/same at others not assuming of course the tweeter is bad.  It is just a rather huge leap considering a week ago you didn't want to unplug your tweeters by yourself.

[Florida_Audio 55]

1 hour ago, ///M5 said:

Come on Billy, stop being a Sally.  Teach us if you know something.  Seems to me even you don't believe that otherwise you would respond differently.

****back on topic like the thread should stay****

And yes, the woofer tester will show you the differences in the drivers.  Everything it does CAN be simulated with a multimeter, a frequency generator, a high accuracy resistor, an amplifier, and some random stuff around your house.  Not hard to do, but not trivial either.  

Of course that will give you more than you need, but you do need Impedance at different frequencies.  At some they will surely be similar/same at others not assuming of course the tweeter is bad.  It is just a rather huge leap considering a week ago you didn't want to unplug your tweeters by yourself.

yea lol it is a huge leap....;. i dont even know where to start with those things you just mentioned.

so im wondering whats the next best thing to do? i do feel as though the tweeter has an issue. but like ive said, i dont really know if i am completely convinced. when it was hooked up to the left side before, it always seemed to have an issue. and now i moved the tweeter it still seems to always be playing at a lower volume. but the type of sound produced from left door to right door is quite a bit different. its super weird. i really dont know what to make of it. the left side sounds louder and more crisp. while the right door sounds lower volume but deeper bass sound. i do like the less crisp side a bit because the crispy high notes hurt on the left door. the thing is.... both sides should be the same considering i didnt alter anything at all that should make left side sound so much different from the right side... i dont think its just the tweeter thats causing this issue, although id argue it is part of the issue.

Edited July 30, 2016 by Florida_Audio

[Billy Jack 145]

Trust me man you ain't gonna get no help from Shawn. And have you checked all your head unit settings if so sounds like a bad speaker and or crossover. If their willing to send you a new one I would give that a go and if that doesn't help its one more thing you can rule out. Buying high dollar equipment to test cheap blown speakers ain't gonna help you.

[///M5 2,833]

You've never said one thing trustworthy so why would anyone trust you.  You could start by explaining phase to us noobs.

[Florida_Audio 55]

1 hour ago, Billy Jack said:

Trust me man you ain't gonna get no help from Shawn. And have you checked all your head unit settings if so sounds like a bad speaker and or crossover. If their willing to send you a new one I would give that a go and if that doesn't help its one more thing you can rule out. Buying high dollar equipment to test cheap blown speakers ain't gonna help you.

who is Shawn

and yea i dont want to spend alot of money on something to test my speakers, speakers are not cheap for me, but i guess in comparison to some peoples standards they may be cheap

but i still do appreciate learning the info from m5 about what equipment can be used, and other possible equipment that can be used as alternatives. learning is always a good thing and i am open to listening the whatever m5 wants to say.

when theres someone who is willing to spend time and answer my questions i appreciate it and read what they say with interest. even more so the fact that he seems to have great knowledge on nearly every area that ive asked about.

im aware you two have your differences and well thats how it is on the internet, but you cannot deny that m5 is knowledgeable. even if u wont admit it here, due to your past together. just move on. im sure he may be willing to help you out if you try to move past arguing

Edited July 30, 2016 by Florida_Audio

[Billy Jack 145]

Ow trust me I tried that. If you will remember correctly I wasn't even in this conversation until he brought up my name and claimed I was giving him bad rep. Funny thing is I do but you can only give 20 a day and he is getting 30-40 a day so seems I'm not the only one who doesn't like his attitude. 

[hdrox88 142]

3 hours ago, Billy Jack said:

...you can only give 20 a day... 

The fact that you know that is pathetic!

 

Florida_Audio, when you were playing those test tones, were you playing one driver at a time? Just one tweeter by itself, not just left tweet and mid vs right tweet and mid. Can't seem to remember with all the bantering. If you haven't already done that, I'd take that route as having different things playing together can mask what you are tracking down. 

[Florida_Audio 55]

21 minutes ago, hdrox88 said:

The fact that you know that is pathetic!

 

Florida_Audio, when you were playing those test tones, were you playing one driver at a time? Just one tweeter by itself, not just left tweet and mid vs right tweet and mid. Can't seem to remember with all the bantering. If you haven't already done that, I'd take that route as having different things playing together can mask what you are tracking down. 

I did not disconnect anything when playing test tones. But i thought a test tone of 1000hz or 2500 hz shoud both only be played out of tweeters? And a test tone of 100hz should only be mid bass and not tweeter? So i assumed they should not interfere. And i dont think i heard the mid bass play the 1000hz tone at all. I may try only the midbass to see how they sound but i think its quite difficult to disconnect the midbass speakers because of where the crossover and connections are for it. 

[Billy Jack 145]

1 hour ago, hdrox88 said:

The fact that you know that is pathetic!

 

Florida_Audio, when you were playing those test tones, were you playing one driver at a time? Just one tweeter by itself, not just left tweet and mid vs right tweet and mid. Can't seem to remember with all the bantering. If you haven't already done that, I'd take that route as having different things playing together can mask what you are tracking down. 

Dude was giving me bad rep for being nice and saying I liked installs or ssa products so heck yes I'm gonna give it right back to him. Go look for yourself you will see. And to be fair I just hadn't commented on anything of his and he was still running his ?icksucker about me so yea I'm gonna do to him what he was already doing to me. Go and find one post where I have had anything but nice things to say about anyone or anything except this ahole you want find any. 

[hdrox88 142]

10 hours ago, Florida_Audio said:

I did not disconnect anything when playing test tones. But i thought a test tone of 1000hz or 2500 hz shoud both only be played out of tweeters? And a test tone of 100hz should only be mid bass and not tweeter? So i assumed they should not interfere. And i dont think i heard the mid bass play the 1000hz tone at all. I may try only the midbass to see how they sound but i think its quite difficult to disconnect the midbass speakers because of where the crossover and connections are for it. 

I'm not 100% sure about the crossovers in your exact set, but there is a very good chance the mid was playing 1000hz and 2500hz. 1000hz may actually play better out of the mid than the tweeter. It may be difficult to get to, but treat each component set as if it were two separate speakers. Listening to each one individually really does tell you a lot. I didn't understand this until I tried it myself.

I spent hours researching tweeters one week as I was sure I needed new ones. Come to find out, after listening to each speaker individually, the sound I didn't like was actually a peak in the frequency response on my mids. A little eq and it was gone. We all have to start somewhere, sometimes diving in is the best way to learn. 

Edited July 30, 2016 by hdrox88

[altoncustomtech 773]

6 hours ago, hdrox88 said:

I'm not 100% sure about the crossovers in your exact set, but there is a very good chance the mid was playing 1000hz and 2500hz. 1000hz may actually play better out of the mid than the tweeter. It may be difficult to get to, but treat each component set as if it were two separate speakers. Listening to each one individually really does tell you a lot. I didn't understand this until I tried it myself.

I spent hours researching tweeters one week as I was sure I needed new ones. Come to find out, after listening to each speaker individually, the sound I didn't like was actually a peak in the frequency response on my mids. A little eq and it was gone. We all have to start somewhere, sometimes diving in is the best way to learn. 

Awesome and solid advice right here. 

[Billy Jack 145]

That would also be a good way to see if you have any frequency cancelation, which I doudt you do, but never hurts to check. If your loosing  certain frequency's when both speakers are playing, you know you have a problem. Out of the probably 20+ systems I have had, I only ever noticed it once, and it was plain as day, one side sounded fine then sure enough as soon as I played both, I lost the higher frequency's. Little bit of time alignment took care of it.

[///M5 2,833]

There will be cancellation in EVERY install.  Always.  What you can hear and what you can solve are always the constraints.  Time alignment doesn't cure cancellation either btw, but will change it potentially.  

I was going to recommend a long time ago in the thread to remove the tweeters and test them on a bench.  My concern wtih the recommendation is that it is easy to destroy them if you play the wrong signal.  If you do, play NOTHING below 2kHz to be safe and start at low levels to ramp up to what makes sense.  Do both tweeters independently and you will know for sure if it is your tweeter.

[///M5 2,833]

On 7/29/2016 at 11:00 PM, Billy Jack said:

Ow trust me I tried that. If you will remember correctly I wasn't even in this conversation until he brought up my name and claimed I was giving him bad rep. Funny thing is I do but you can only give 20 a day and he is getting 30-40 a day so seems I'm not the only one who doesn't like his attitude. 

And yet again you can't read.  I can see who gives a reputation post, you did.  Someone else asked who would give me a negative rep for a post I made so I answered.  You are obviously trying to stretch the truth for some unapparent reason none of us understand, but stop.

The other major error in your post is that I also am not getting negative reps from anyone but you atm.  I seriously don't care either way, but you are proving over and over trustworthy isn't a term you should use for yourself.  We'd all get along better if you'd stop acting like a teenager with hormonal swings and instead just try to learn for once.

[Florida_Audio 55]

4 hours ago, ///M5 said:

There will be cancellation in EVERY install.  Always.  What you can hear and what you can solve are always the constraints.  Time alignment doesn't cure cancellation either btw, but will change it potentially.  

I was going to recommend a long time ago in the thread to remove the tweeters and test them on a bench.  My concern wtih the recommendation is that it is easy to destroy them if you play the wrong signal.  If you do, play NOTHING below 2kHz to be safe and start at low levels to ramp up to what makes sense.  Do both tweeters independently and you will know for sure if it is your tweeter.

ok thanks. so whats a test bench for speakers?

ive heard of and seen test benches for pc gaming rigs and such.

but the tweeter has a weird connection at the end that seems to only be compatible with the crossover it came with? its like an alligator clip that slides into the other part of the wire for the crossover? i dont know how to just play the tweeter unless i just disconnect the midbass woofer. and play sound through the headunit, which would then go to crossover and only be played through tweeters, once the midbass woofer is disconnected?

but i am pretty sure its the right tweeter. (used to be on left side but i swapped it)

i can balance the sound from left to right, either balanced, or up to number 15 left or 15 right on my headunit settings. so i would balance the system to the side with the tweeter in which i suspect to be having issues. because its now on the right side and further away, i balanced the sound to number 5 over to the right. so its significantly on that side. and when playing music for around a total of 1 hour yesterday, i could hear the distortion that would sometimes happen when that same tweeter was on the left side, right next to me when driving.

i think the biggest issue is, its easier to notice the small imperfections in the tweeter when its on the left side, where i am sitting in the drivers seat. and a bit more difficult to tell when its on the right side, further away from me.

but even when its completely balanced to one side or the other, and constantly swapping sides with the balance, its somewhat noticeable, but sometimes can be confusing. i think it made it much easier, when some volume was out of one side, but the side i suspected had the issue was being played a bit lourder, so the imperfections could be heard easier.

the issue with the volume always being lower on the right side now is one issue. which i though weird, that just the tweeter can cause such a difference in volume level, even though it sounds pretty similar in quality of sound. but there is a slight difference in the quality but much more difficult to notice. until i listened to it for a longer time and had both playing sound. but the slight crackling distorted sound does play only at certain parts of songs, seems to happen more so with female vocals. and well it happened a few times. so yea ill be sending in the tweeter!

thanks for all of the help guys, and m5!

but sadly yesterday at night time, i started to get a very high pitched ringing in my left ear only. i thought my pc tower motherboard or gpu were causing it. until i realized i didnt hear any ringing at all in my right ear..... and when i tilted my head slightly or covered my left ear, the ringing would somewhat go away. so weird that when tilting my head at an angle caused the ringing to stop a bit....... pretty sure i damaged something in my ear. i hope its temporary. for now ill give these long music testing and high volume things a break. im seriously concerned for the health of my ear now... sort of funny, but also a bit scarry.