Left tweeter seems to be dying, sounds weak

[///M5 2,833]

7 minutes ago, Billy Jack said:

You say I act like a teen but you where the one who got bent out of shape because I didn't take your opinion as fact. And it isn't just me you are a pucking smartass to almost anyone who comes on here. Hell I was reading a old post where you mouthed off to tony D'Amore and that guy is a engineer so that says a lot about you. And as far as disliking post you where giving me bad rep for liking a ssa product so it's only fair I give it right back. I think the problem is your German you guys think yourself better then everyone but we all know what nazi's really are. 

ROFL.  You can't read.

You've never gotten me bent out of shape, I just feel sorry for your confusion and lack of comprehension.

Tony is a money grubbing noob cheater and has shown no engineering aptitude.  May claim that as a title, but hasn't proven it with capability.  

I am not German.  Not even close.  Glad you can show your maturity and incapability to read even further.

 

 

[Billy Jack 145]

Can you read this? 

Edited July 29, 2016 by Billy Jack

[Florida_Audio 55]

ok so when raising the volume with nothing being played, like ive said before both sides make a buzzing sound. some people said they think its the bad ground. some say they think its the gains on the amp. i have not figured out what it is yet, but here are two videos, one of each tweeter. the buzzing is only from tweeters it seems.

the right tweeter, which used to be on the left, and the tweeter i suspect of being damaged or malfunctioning. this tweeter sounds like a more solid buzz and a slight bit louder than the left. this one sounds like the ringing of a small piece of metal when its hit with another piece of metal. like a triangle instrument.

the left tweeter, which used to be on the right side, and i think is fine. this tweeter sounds much more of a light buzz. and sounds almost like sand moving. both sides do sound similar in their buzz, but do have a noticeable difference in the type of sound.

heres two videos of them. i wasnt able to post videos of them before.

also some of the noise that sounds different than the buzz, is me turning the wheel to raise and lower the volume as to raise and lower the buzz to show how it changes in volume

 

 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2016 by Florida_Audio

[Billy Jack 145]

Honestly that just sounds like cheap amps with a huge noise floor. I some how doudt it's the alpine I have used their stuff for years and always got great sound from them. I did have one go bad after 11 years and about 4 vehicles but even it still played and sounded good all but the CD player that stopped reading disks which might have just been dirty from a decade of dusty mountain roads. I would try by passing those NVX amps and hook one directly to the head unit and see how it sounds. 

[Florida_Audio 55]

6 hours ago, ///M5 said:

Does the behavior completely follow the tweeter?  It sounds likely but tones are better for comparing as your ear can co fuse you on music

ok so.... before i moved the tweeter there were a few issues i clearly noticed....

1) the left tweeter would sometimes sound a bit crackly during some parts of songs.

2) the left tweeter played volume a bit lower than the right side. (well at least i think it was the tweeter)

3) the left side seemed to have more volume coming from the midbass woofer by my feet, and not much from the tweeter

 

now that i swapped the tweeters

i have not really 100% heard the random crackle noise, but i think i have somewhat heard it, it definitely seems to sound worse on the right side now, so yes this followed the tweeter.

but..... it also seems as though the left side still does play a bit more so from the bottom midbass woofer in comparison with the right side. so the midbass does seem to be doing more work on the left side still....

its very hard to tell. but like i said with the buzzing sounds that come from the speaker when playing no music or any sound. this buzz comes through even when playing music or sound, but its just covered up quite well. so its hard to tell if that buzzing noise is what im hearing in the background more so with the right tweeter, because on the right side, that buzzing is stronger.... or maybe i am hearing distortion when playing the 1000 hz sine tone? i cannot tell.... this is very frustrating and confusing. and im not sure whats causing the buzzing? or why the buzzing sounds so different from the left to the right side. maybe the buzzing difference is because 1 tweeter is slightly damaged as ive thought all along? or maybe its something else?

 

by the way, thanks again m5 for all the help ! i really do appreciate it. im quite lost, and any direction you have given me and can give me is greatly appreciated!

Edited July 29, 2016 by Florida_Audio

[Billy Jack 145]

Could the wires maybe be backwards on the crossover?

[Florida_Audio 55]

1 hour ago, Billy Jack said:

Honestly that just sounds like cheap amps with a huge noise floor. I some how doudt it's the alpine I have used their stuff for years and always got great sound from them. I did have one go bad after 11 years and about 4 vehicles but even it still played and sounded good all but the CD player that stopped reading disks which might have just been dirty from a decade of dusty mountain roads. I would try by passing those NVX amps and hook one directly to the head unit and see how it sounds. 

its a cheap pioneer amp... not nvx

i spent $120 on it. yea it was cheap. but if its just the noise floor from the amp then its fine. but its weird that one side sounds different than the other. so its making me think its the tweeter

Pioneer GM-D8604 Class FD 4-Channel Bridgeable Amplifier, this is the amp. 2 channels are used for front speakers. and other 2 channels are used for my subwoofer

 

[Florida_Audio 55]

1 hour ago, Billy Jack said:

Could the wires maybe be backwards on the crossover?

nope. pretty sure it would sound completely shitty and extremely bad if this were the case. then all of lower notes would be sent to tweeter. but both tweeters play the 1000 hz and 2500 hz test tones fairly similar, except some minor differences

[Billy Jack 145]

Yea then it does sound like the amp though. I would try a tweet on your head unit and see if it still sounds bad if it does you know it's the tweeters and not the amp but honestly it sounds just like a cheap amp turned up to high. I hate that for you I know I always hate when I have system problems is so frustrating. Usually I have to just step back and think about the problem for a while then I can figure it out. Good luck. 

[Florida_Audio 55]

1 hour ago, Billy Jack said:

Yea then it does sound like the amp though. I would try a tweet on your head unit and see if it still sounds bad if it does you know it's the tweeters and not the amp but honestly it sounds just like a cheap amp turned up to high. I hate that for you I know I always hate when I have system problems is so frustrating. Usually I have to just step back and think about the problem for a while then I can figure it out. Good luck. 

not sure how to just hookup tweeter to the headunit. and yea that would check to see if it sounds different instead of using the amp... except, i think the same type of diagnostic test can be run by just swapping the RCA cables at the amplifer for left and right. and/or swapping the speaker wires at the amplifer channels. and both of these tests seemed to produce almost no difference.

of course i may be wrong but id assume doing those 3 are all very similar and are ways to check if the amp is causing the issue?

Edited July 29, 2016 by Florida_Audio

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

If the right tweeter sounds stellar when swapped to the left side, then it's safe to say the left tweeter needs replaced. That test alone eliminates all other variables.

[///M5 2,833]

7 hours ago, Billy Jack said:

I would try by passing those NVX amps and hook one directly to the head unit and see how it sounds. 

Of course you would, but that won't help.  A rudimentary understanding of amplifiers would be useful here.  That doesn't sound like thermal noise, but in the case it is a weird auralization of noise it is really easy to check.  Just turn the gain down on the amplifier.  If the noise goes away completely then it is the amp, if it doesn't it isn't.

Considering your toils Florida_Audio I would try to turn the gain down first.  That noise sounds like interference from something else however.  The gain test will tell you if it is noise from the amp though.  Let us know what you find.

 

[Florida_Audio 55]

4 hours ago, j-roadtatts said:

If the right tweeter sounds stellar when swapped to the left side, then it's safe to say the left tweeter needs replaced. That test alone eliminates all other variables.

it does sound better when swapped. but its somewhat hard to tell with 100% certainty that its really actually that much better. although yes it does seem to have improved, theres still a slight doubt in my mind when listening. i think i will just go ahead and send back the one tweeter in question and have them ship me a new one, since they are willing to do it. and i hope it fixes it. thanks. ill post back of course if theres still some issue lol. thanks

1 hour ago, ///M5 said:

Of course you would, but that won't help.  A rudimentary understanding of amplifiers would be useful here.  That doesn't sound like thermal noise, but in the case it is a weird auralization of noise it is really easy to check.  Just turn the gain down on the amplifier.  If the noise goes away completely then it is the amp, if it doesn't it isn't.

Considering your toils Florida_Audio I would try to turn the gain down first.  That noise sounds like interference from something else however.  The gain test will tell you if it is noise from the amp though.  Let us know what you find.

 

ok ill attempt this before i disconnect the other tweeter to ship it back. thanks.

[Florida_Audio 55]

its about to storm outside. typical florida weather. so i have to stop for now. ill lower the gains once the storm passes. but it sounds like loud thunder now.

but i was busy checking both sides. and realized i accidentally put one speaker channels polarity inverted yesterday lol. so... i fixed that

and started to listen to both sides again. it seems as though the right side door midbass has stronger bass than the left side. and it overall just sounds much deep and better. more of a warm sound. but the left side while it is louder, it also sounds more high pitched and a sharper sound. a bit too sharp for my liking. but theres a distinct different in left to right sides. i sit in the middle when listening to both sides and balance middle, left, and right. and i keep my head straight as if i am driving. and sometimes turn my head around to try and listen from different ears.

its very frustrating and confusing still....... i also re ran the 1000hz and 2500 hz test tones to check for differences. and it still sounds like the right tweeter is slightly distorting at higher volumes. but its not a very noticeable distortion. it sounds like background noise, like the buzzing from my speakers when no volume is played. this sound is in the background when playing both the 1000hz and 2500 hz at higher volume. but i dont think it actually is the normal buzzing when nothing is played. because when i pause the 1000hz or 2500 hz test tone, that background buzz goes away, and the much lower volume regular buzz is there. but that other buzz is so much lower that it couldnt possibly be heard while playing the test tone at that volume.

 

im thinking i should maybe check the actual midbass speakers? how would i do this? i tried the test tones at 200 to 500 hz and they sound too similar, very hard to tell them apart. should i maybe disconnect the tweeters and then only play music from the mid bass speakers? would this be safe to do? and is this a good way to check for differences? im honestly very confused when listening with my own ears, i wish there was some electrical equipment to test the crossover and tweeters with? i definitely do hear a difference in each side. but when i try to isolate the variables, its so hard to pinpoint what the difference is with my own ears. but i know for sure theres something wrong.....

i would really like to say that one side is getting more power from the amp which is causing the difference in bass, and loudness in volume. but when i swap the RCAs the difference is still there.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Florida_Audio

[Billy Jack 145]

Did I read that right? You set in the middle of the car while driving down the road? Or did you mean when your stopped? 

[Florida_Audio 55]

1 hour ago, Billy Jack said:

Did I read that right? You set in the middle of the car while driving down the road? Or did you mean when your stopped? 

sitting in driveway...

[///M5 2,833]

1 hour ago, Florida_Audio said:

but i was busy checking both sides. and realized i accidentally put one speaker channels polarity inverted yesterday lol. so... i fixed that

 

Perhaps or perhaps not.  Fixed it may not be.

I have NEVER had a car where having both mids and both tweeters in phase (ie wired as described from the speaker manufacturer) sounded best.  Trying to swap the +/- for all 4 of the drivers independently can yield monstrous benefits in the frequency response.

[///M5 2,833]

So yes, compare your midbass as well, but either do them INDEPENDENTLY (ie only Left or only right connected) or try all variations of phase.

[Billy Jack 145]

Can't see how reversing the polarity and running the speaker backwards is gonna help the sound in a small car. 

[Florida_Audio 55]

1 hour ago, ///M5 said:

Perhaps or perhaps not.  Fixed it may not be.

I have NEVER had a car where having both mids and both tweeters in phase (ie wired as described from the speaker manufacturer) sounded best.  Trying to swap the +/- for all 4 of the drivers independently can yield monstrous benefits in the frequency response.

to me. it does sound better now that i made the speakers be in phase again. but theres still something off about the whole sound from left to right. its so weird that they sound different.

1 hour ago, ///M5 said:

So yes, compare your midbass as well, but either do them INDEPENDENTLY (ie only Left or only right connected) or try all variations of phase.

to do this. i would disconnect both tweeters, put electrical tape over their ends. close up door panels. and play music from the midbass speakers? is it safe to play music like this with tweeters disconnected like this? i would assume the crossover would not start sending the high frequencies to the midbass if it notices the tweeters are disconnected. just making sure. thanks again!

[///M5 2,833]

1 hour ago, Billy Jack said:

Can't see how reversing the polarity and running the speaker backwards is gonna help the sound in a small car. 

Of course you can't.  You seem to be confused thoroughly on everything audio.

Google cancellation and don't just read but think for once.  Eureka moment should happen, if not think harder.

[///M5 2,833]

1 hour ago, Florida_Audio said:

 

to do this. i would disconnect both tweeters, put electrical tape over their ends. close up door panels. and play music from the midbass speakers? is it safe to play music like this with tweeters disconnected like this? i would assume the crossover would not start sending the high frequencies to the midbass if it notices the tweeters are disconnected. just making sure. thanks again!

Depends on where you disconnect them.  If you take the wires off the crossover completely no need to tape, but of course when in doubt TAPE.

I think you are seeing now why I would never put a crossover in the door.  You should really compare all variations of polarity on the speakers.  And yes I know this is a crapload of combinations, but when you find the right one it will be extremely noticeable.

[Billy Jack 145]

2 hours ago, ///M5 said:

Of course you can't.  You seem to be confused thoroughly on everything audio.

Google cancellation and don't just read but think for once.  Eureka moment should happen, if not think harder.

I know what phase is smartass I'm just saying in a car audio environment I don't see how running all your speakers out of phase is going to help anything. I'm almost positive he is getting no cancelation from speakers that are at different distances from his ears how could he.

[Florida_Audio 55]

3 hours ago, ///M5 said:

Depends on where you disconnect them.  If you take the wires off the crossover completely no need to tape, but of course when in doubt TAPE.

I think you are seeing now why I would never put a crossover in the door.  You should really compare all variations of polarity on the speakers.  And yes I know this is a crapload of combinations, but when you find the right one it will be extremely noticeable.

ok thanks. so... i did some extensive testing as far as my standards go

a few things i did. were trying different combinations of swapping the speaker wires on the amp. from polarity to swapping the channels. and swapping the RCAs. Swapping RCA and speaker wires in different combinations. and overall doing ANY of them it seems to produce no difference whatsoever. except when i change the polarity. and i dont like the sound it produces then.

These are my findings, and i think i am done!

1) the left mid bass speaker plays a bit less bass than the right mid bass speaker. (this i assume is due to how the mid bass speakers were installed. maybe slightly different deadening around them?)

2) the right tweeter, which used to be on the left, plays lower volume than the current left tweeter. the tweeter ive though all along had issues, seems it does. the main noticeable thing is that it plays volume lower and the highs are not as crisp. while i do actually like the less crisp high notes, it also plays a crackling noise at certain parts of songs and sounds slightly distorted. (so i am going to send in the right tweeter as i believe it is causing the issue)

3) the left and right door speakers, tweeter and mid bass are angled at a slightly different angle.... from driver side to passenger side, which im sure causes a slight variation in how sound is heard.... i just noticed this slight angle difference.

BUT..... all i changed were the speaker wires at the amp, and the RCA at the amp. but now all of a sudden the headunit is shutting off for 1 second and then turning back on.... randomly.... it was doing it around once every 60 seconds or so. and then at one point it went full stupid and shut off and on again 2 times in a row within 10 seconds. but then went back to being on again.... what could be causing this new issue.... i only swapped cables around at the amp, speaker wire and rca only........

but i did notice that one of the speaker wires, the copper part sticking out of the rubber does seem to be quite small. like the lead tip of a pencil almost... i dont know if this is causing the headunit to restart? id assume it would just affect the sound from the speakers not make the headunit turn off and on again...?

also when the headunit would restart, it did not change in frequency based on the volume of music. because the headunit actually did that double restart within 10 seconds when the volume was at a lower level.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Florida_Audio

[///M5 2,833]

50 minutes ago, Billy Jack said:

I know what phase is smartass I'm just saying in a car audio environment I don't see how running all your speakers out of phase is going to help anything. I'm almost positive he is getting no cancelation from speakers that are at different distances from his ears how could he.

So in other words you have no idea what phase is.