Finding DB's

[Billy Jack 145]

What are some easy ways you guys have used to gain DB's. Like myself, I found my old camaro did a few tenths better, with the hatch cracked, and the windows cracked, and the glove box open. Just curious what you guys have tried to gain those few tenths. 

[jcarter1885 995]

Flip visors down, push seats up.

[Randal Johnson 544]

Remove A/C duct work.

[Billy Jack 145]

2 hours ago, Randal Johnson said:

Remove A/C duct work.

Really that gained you some db? I have heard of opening or closing the vents but never removing the duct work. That's a new one on me.

[Randal Johnson 544]

Been doing this a while brother.

And to think I'm mainly a Sound Quality competitor. And before you ask ... No, I've never done this to my SQ rides. LOL

[Billy Jack 145]

1 hour ago, Randal Johnson said:

Been doing this a while brother.

And to think I'm mainly a Sound Quality competitor. And before you ask ... No, I've never done this to my SQ rides. LOL

I wasn't gonna ask at all. It's kind of obvious you meant a spl build. I swapped out cloth floor mats for rubber in the camaro to I forgot about that until you mentioned the ducts. 

[Randal Johnson 544]

Back when I competed with my 85 Iroc, it had a pair of 12s in the T- top compartment. Back then there was a musical 140db cut off in my class which was easy to achieve. So not much modification had to be done with the Camaro. 

Edited October 24, 2016 by Randal Johnson
spelling

[Billy Jack 145]

I had a Fbody Z/28 with 4 square L7 kickers, on 2 ZX2500's, and a hatch full of optima yellow tops. It was a ported wall that did 151.3db in meca in the 90's. 

[Randal Johnson 544]

Sound like an awesome setup. Ran a few Kicker products myself back in the day. Use to love to go up to Stillwater and pick up equipment. 

Dang, I didn't think the L7s were made in the 90s. I remember seeing the old square solarbaric (L5) drivers, but not the L7s ... need to call Jerry McCord and check on that ... 

[Billy Jack 145]

1 hour ago, Randal Johnson said:

Sound like an awesome setup. Ran a few Kicker products myself back in the day. Use to love to go up to Stillwater and pick up equipment. 

Dang, I didn't think the L7s were made in the 90s. I remember seeing the old square solarbaric (L5) drivers, but not the L7s ... need to call Jerry McCord and check on that ... 

That's actually what I switched from, I started out with the 5's and when the 7's came out I traded them out. 

[Randal Johnson 544]

Gotcha. Had a pair of round comp 15s. Well, still have them in their original boxes somewhere in the shop. Traded them out with a pair of Blues Car Audio 15s when the first hit the market. Still have them playing in my mom's antique audio cabinet. Need to find a cabinet to put it those Kickers in. 

[Billy Jack 145]

Yea I got the 1996 Z/28 my senior year in high school and began building my system and car a few pieces at a time. It was my only bill so it went pretty quick. Somewhere around 97/98 I got 2 of the L5's and one of the zx2500's, then about a year later I ended up with 2 more L5's and another amp, so I took out the hatchbox, and had a buddy build me a wall in my back seat. We had the batts stacked up in the hatch area, and the amps where mounted facing the back glass. Then some where around 01-02 I think I traded out subs when the L7's first came out. I said 90's cause that when it all got started, but it was in the 2000's before I ever metered it.  Before that I had a Toyota hatchback with 3 12w6V1's and a Phoenix gold M100 and M50. I had several different component sets in that car I traded around and upgraded a lot. I wish Eclipes hadn't went out of business I miss there old head units. Now I use the alpine there as close to the eclipse as I have found but just not the same. Aww those where the days. 

[Randal Johnson 544]

I run Kenwood head units. Had a few Pioneer units, but was never satisfied with them. I have the DNX9980HD and love it !!! 

[Billy Jack 145]

20 minutes ago, Randal Johnson said:

I run Kenwood head units. Had a few Pioneer units, but was never satisfied with them. I have the DNX9980HD and love it !!! 

I have never liked the pioneers all my buddy's ran them but I always went for Clarion, Eclipes, or Alpines. I ran a few sony's and kenwoods but they where just temps until I got a better unit. I would like to try one of those new pioneer active units I hear those are great for sound quality. I will probably just upgrade to the alpine 800 dsp with the optional controller. My 137bt alpine is ok but not as good as my last 9887 I had on a 2 way active in my truck. 

[Randal Johnson 544]

43 minutes ago, Randal Johnson said:

I run Kenwood head units. Had a few Pioneer units, but was never satisfied with them. I have the DNX9980HD and love it !!! 

well actually, this is not entirely true. LOL

In the Camaro, I had the Sony 10 disc changer installed with the Linear Power PA2/X03 combo. Awesome Stuff back in the day !!!

[Billy Jack 145]

5 hours ago, Randal Johnson said:

well actually, this is not entirely true. LOL

In the Camaro, I had the Sony 10 disc changer installed with the Linear Power PA2/X03 combo. Awesome Stuff back in the day !!!

I can remember using a Sony disc man on a little stand that bolted to your dash and hooked into your cassette deck. Man those things sucked the least little bump and your music went by by. Even some of the first in dash CD players would skip like crazy just from bass. Basically anything from Walmart, and Kmart would drive you nuts. But we did have some great sounding A/B amps back then, I wish I would have saved my Phoenix gold, PPI,  and US2000X amps. If I ever come across any M100's or MS275's I'm buying them and having them repaired. 

[///M5 2,833]

I haven't answered yet because my answer has always been simple.  Measure in as many different variations as possible and then adjust said design.  Works better than any trick.  Obviously this doesn't exclude maniupulating panels, windows etc.  A/C vents is new to me...and would bet not super repeatable in other vehicles.

1 minute ago, Billy Jack said:

 But we did have some great sounding A/B amps back then, I wish I would have saved my Phoenix gold, PPI,  and US2000X amps. If I ever come across any M100's or MS275's I'm buying them and having them repaired. 

Come blind a/b my M100 with the little "crap" NVX I have and I guarantee you will be shocked. 

[Billy Jack 145]

21 minutes ago, ///M5 said:

I haven't answered yet because my answer has always been simple.  Measure in as many different variations as possible and then adjust said design.  Works better than any trick.  Obviously this doesn't exclude maniupulating panels, windows etc.  A/C vents is new to me...and would bet not super repeatable in other vehicles.

Come blind a/b my M100 with the little "crap" NVX I have and I guarantee you will be shocked. 

Uhh yea, that's what we where saying. I may have worded it funny, but I meant what could you alter to gain db's. For me it was floor mats, hatch, windows cracked, center console open, and glove box open.  And you even said yourself, if I heard AB power It would be a revelation and that they sounded better, but now it doesn't? So which is it? 

Edited October 26, 2016 by Billy Jack

[Randal Johnson 544]

Sean, for the most part, that's the way it is in the SPL world. Most that chase numbers will design and build for that application. Some go WAY extreme. But when it comes to a tie breaker, you look anxd will try just about anything that might work to get that half a DB over their competitors. 

 

And as for those old school amplifiers, I have one boxed up I wouldn't mind throwing in that mix !!! I think it's a class AB setup ???

 

[Kylar96 132]

6 hours ago, Randal Johnson said:

Sean, for the most part, that's the way it is in the SPL world. Most that chase numbers will design and build for that application. Some go WAY extreme. But when it comes to a tie breaker, you look anxd will try just about anything that might work to get that half a DB over their competitors. 

 

And as for those old school amplifiers, I have one boxed up I wouldn't mind throwing in that mix !!! I think it's a class AB setup ???

 

Yup. And hell a half db, it comes down to 10ths most of the time. Tenths man. At the upper level, everyone is SOOoooo close, its like nothing. A piece of tape, here or there, temperature that day,... silly stuff you have to pay attention to, lol, may get you a ring/win or cost you one. 

Also depends how you meter, or what ORG your in. Sealed up, on the dash, or outlaw, something open, kick stuff, or head rest stuff. All comes into play.  Now, we arent loud. So, i cant help much at all.  Never have been. Our goals are different than just netting DB's.  

 That said......

Find and use your vehicle resonance. Efficient.  Big one to me. Use that to a advantage. Get your enclosure to like what the rig likes, and you will gain large. Use it, instead of fight it. If your into that. We always fight it, because we want to play lower than what the rig likes. Been that way in every build we have done. Blazers liked 44ish and peaked at 35,...and the burb likes about the same, 44, 46. But we want to peak well lower.  But, if you can have the rig HELP you, (tunning fork style) instead of hurt you, be more efficient, it helps a ton. 

When it comes to the lil tricks, it will be hella vehicle dependant. Test your nuts off....... :shrugs:

[///M5 2,833]

On 10/25/2016 at 11:46 PM, Billy Jack said:

 And you even said yourself, if I heard AB power It would be a revelation and that they sounded better, but now it doesn't? So which is it? 

Again you can't read.  I said if you do a blind ab comparison you will have a revelation.  You've read me say the same thing three times and can't ever comprehend.  

[///M5 2,833]

Perhaps I could dumb it down for you.  Being you are old...take the Pepsi challenge but use amps instead of pop.  That would be a blind ab test.  A is Pepsi and b is coke.  Neither the a or b have anything to do with topology of an amplifier except of course you can use that style of test to compare different amps or topologies blindly.

[Billy Jack 145]

2 hours ago, ///M5 said:

Again you can't read.  I said if you do a blind ab comparison you will have a revelation.  You've read me say the same thing three times and can't ever comprehend.  

You never said no such thing, apparently you can't read your own text. What you actually said was "you didn't AB?.... you should have, it would be a huge revaluation to you," then I asked what AB was, and Arron answered, class AB amplifier. So now do you see the problem?  And once again we where doing just fine, until you came in with your confusing nonsense, that only you can understand. Even Arron didn't understand what you where saying at first, so no need to come in now, and ADD words to what you actually said, to try and belittle me. And I have switched out plenty of amps, and it's bullshit you can't tell a difference cause sometimes, not always, but sometimes you can tell a difference if their different enough. And even if there was no difference in sound, there is plenty difference in build quality, reliability, style, and efficiency. And that's why I don't like the NVX mini amps, there week plastic little China shit boxes, that want hold up like some of the better built stuff. It's like saying a cheap ratchet from Walmart, will turn the same bolt as one from snap on, but neglecting to mention it will strip out the first time it's strained and the snap on will take a far bigger beating, and even if you do break it from normal use, they will stand behind it, where with walmart your on your own after 30 days. 

[Adrian_D 520]

On 10/23/2016 at 8:47 PM, Randal Johnson said:

Remove A/C duct work.

I have my doubts that's going to do anything. 

A/C duct work is way under the dash. If by removing it you open up a hole in the firewall, I'm not sure it's allowed, especially in a class where everything should be sealed up. 

IMO all sealed up should be the benchmark. Cracking a window open or opening a door or opening the rear hatch to gain score are useless. 

As for the NVX versus old-school A/B and the China discussion....the new class D's take quite a bit of abuse, my plastic china shitboxes never got warm and they live in the tiniest space available under the rear seats. Using old A/B amps for nostalgia and bragging rights, ok, but if you say they are better than the new stuff, you're smoking the wrong stuff  Same goes for saying you will be able to hear obvious differences in a blind test. Blind test meaning both amps are adjusted to the same measured output level. 

 

Now back on topic...

Most of the gains will be in the enclosure. Huge ports, huge enclosures (screw rules of thumb, I have been using a 10 inch port for a 12 inch sub, in a 2.8cf box), orientation, bracing or lack of bracing. Heck, I retuned my port when switching up from 8 inch just by using software. It might not have been spot on but I gained an instant 0.9 dB, going from 150.0-150.1 to 150.9-151.0.

Next up are car 'mods': removal of some interior panels and carpeting, bracing certain windows or doors. In my old  Jeep bracing the rear-most side windows gained almost 1 dB.

Seat position, sun visor position, taping up certain vents, this should be tested only after you run out of ideas or space for box improvements and after you have tested the previously mentioned car 'mods'.

 

Most of the box ideas I found out by myself after listening to all the "oh, if you peak high you need a small box" posts on the SPL forums. I spent quite a bit trying to go over 147 dB in a 1cf box with a single 12 and a 6 inch port. Next step was a 2cf box, score went up and final iteration was 151.4 dB with the same sub / amp / power, 2.8cf box and a 10 inch port. 4.4 dB total gain by using a big box, big port, bracing rear windows, removing all side panels behind the backseat. 

[///M5 2,833]

6 hours ago, Billy Jack said:

So now do you see the problem?  

Yes you are blind and confused.  Seriously just do a blind test 1x on ANYTHING.  It will shut up your idiotic brand nonsense.  There are so many snake oil tricks in audio sales and you are succumbing to all of them.