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ManzKea

What's the pros and cons of neo magnet subs

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ManzKea    37

Hey guys, I've noticed some companies offer neo subs and there're priced really high compared to the other higher model subs they offer. For example I was looking at the D.C. Lvl 5 and 6 and I saw the D.C. Neos. They were higher priced but the rms was lower than the lvl 6. 

So I was just wondering what warrants the price mark up. Are they under rated and offer a lot of pros or something ? I also seen that fi audio Btl neos subs and they look hella sweet. And the price is reasonable. But yea I tried to search the pros and cons, and all I could find was the weight and I think cooling or something like that. Figured I'd ask I'm sure someone with a lot of knowledge would chime in.  

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Billy Jack    146
Posted (edited)

Neodymium magnets are a rare earth metal that generally cost more then tradition speakers and they hold a high magnetic charge. They provide a much stronger magnetic flux density in the air gap allowing much higher force in the voice coil. Plus they have the advantage of being smaller, and weighing less. Either style can sound just as good, the choice is really up to you. 

Edited by Billy Jack

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SS Teacher    160

To piggy back what Billy Jack said, most tweeters use Neodymium magnets because they only need small magnets and the cost isn't too much, but Neo on larger speakers is very costly.  Last I checked it cost 4 times as much as silver.

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ManzKea    37

So it's not that big of an improvement to justify the rice difference ?

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Billy Jack    146
1 hour ago, ManzKea said:

So it's not that big of an improvement to justify the rice difference ?

If you have a huge budget and want to save weight and get the other benefits of neo's it's worth it, but for the casual daily listener no I wouldn't recommend them, except maybe the fi btl's, there still as cheap as similar subs and who wouldn't love one or 8 of those ran inverted I almost got 2 myself may still. :emotbandwagon6rg:

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ManzKea    37
4 hours ago, Billy Jack said:

If you have a huge budget and want to save weight and get the other benefits of neo's it's worth it, but for the casual daily listener no I wouldn't recommend them, except maybe the fi btl's, there still as cheap as similar subs and who wouldn't love one or 8 of those ran inverted I almost got 2 myself may still. :emotbandwagon6rg:

Yea those subs look sweet. But I can't run mines inverted in my Jeep lol as of now I put stuff on my sub box so inverting subs would take away a lot of storage area. 

 

Speaking of fi Audio I was on their site and was actually interested in the sp4 12s. I seen what the older models can do and now they offer it in 12s got me excited. I like that magnet also but again, no one would see it lol. But that brought up my question in the first place. I saw the sp4 has a higher rms than the btl, but the btl are more expensive.  Wondered why

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Billy Jack    146

RMS is just how much heat a sub can take before it burns up it doesn't always indicate which driver will be louder or better sounding. And as for the price I imagine it has something to do with the cost of manufacturing. Something about the BTL probably takes longer to build or is just more expensive in raw materials, I'm not sure which. The BTL is there daily spl dedicated driver, and the sp4 is more geared towards sound quality  but can still get loud. Only thing I don't like about FI is there customer service, I myself couldn't reach them after repeated email's. I never actually tried calling and placing a order, who knows they may have picked right up or called me back, if they have a number that is. I just hit the contact us page and sent half a dozen emails and this was way before tax time. I knew I could get sonic to communicate with me and have what ever I wanted on my door in a few days so I ended up going with DC audio lvl 4 12's and a DC 2k. I wanted a BTL or Evil but FI wouldn't get back to me and I didn't want to wait who knows how long for a Evil 12". I drive my work car 7-15 hours a day so I wanted up and running as fast as possible I may still order some evils when they SSA actually gets them and give them a try. Aaron told me they kind of slotted between a SP4 and FI team sub you know if FI carried them instead of being a dedicated SSA driver built by them. 

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ManzKea    37

The wait time isn't accurate to the indicated info? I see like 21 days or so for dispatch 

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Billy Jack    146
26 minutes ago, ManzKea said:

The wait time isn't accurate to the indicated info? I see like 21 days or so for dispatch 

Yes I caught that to, estimated build time 21+ days is a little misleading in my opinion. The plus is right, but why even include 21 when the subs are still in the development phase, and you know they ain't coming for months. Or maybe they are coming sooner but didn't sound like it anyways. I spoke to a couple of guys who waited 6+ months for their orders. And they where not to happy with the take your money first, quote 21+ days then don't deliver for 6 months. To me it sounds like they just offer up pre-orders, and when they have collected enough capital to build a batch, they build and ship them. I'm thinking when they give the excuse "there stuck in the port" they just haven't sold enough pre-orders to have a batch built and your stuck, you either take a partial refund or wait. I can understand a new company doing this, but when you been in business for a decade, and don't have enough capital, or credit to keep at least some stock on hand something's wrong. Margins are to low or mismanagement or any slew of problems. I face a similar situation everyday, we run a small business 14 employees, 8 being full time and sometimes we have a small problem filling the demand but we have zero room to grow we are at maximum capacity so we just have to hang in there until demand lightens up. Maybe 1-2 times a year we have to take the phone off the hook and stop accepting orders for a hour or so until we can catch up and fill them promptly. We would rather not take a order we can't fill then to leave the customer hanging with there money in are pocket. And if it does happen that way we offer them a full refund and the product for free to earn back there future business and it's kept us on top for 40 years. 

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ManzKea    37

Wow I never knew it was like that! I mean I see on forums people talking about the wait time blah blah and it's worth it . I thought it was 21 ish days, so I was like it ain't that bad. I mean, it ain't like sonic electronics or none but still I could manage a few weeks. But months?? Lol idk bout that. Maybe if they said up front then possible but from what you're saying it sounds like it's a case by case sort of thing. 

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ManzKea    37
13 minutes ago, Billy Jack said:

Yes I caught that to, estimated build time 21+ days is a little misleading in my opinion. The plus is right, but why even include 21 when the subs are still in the development phase, and you know they ain't coming for months. Or maybe they are coming sooner but didn't sound like it anyways. I spoke to a couple of guys who waited 6+ months for their orders. And they where not to happy with the take your money first, quote 21+ days then don't deliver for 6 months. To me it sounds like they just offer up pre-orders, and when they have collected enough capital to build a batch, they build and ship them. I'm thinking when they give the excuse "there stuck in the port" they just haven't sold enough pre-orders to have a batch built and your stuck, you either take a partial refund or wait. I can understand a new company doing this, but when you been in business for a decade, and don't have enough capital, or credit to keep at least some stock on hand something's wrong. Margins are to low or mismanagement or any slew of problems. I face a similar situation everyday, we run a small business 14 employees, 8 being full time and sometimes we have a small problem filling the demand but we have zero room to grow we are at maximum capacity so we just have to hang in there until demand lightens up. Maybe 1-2 times a year we have to take the phone off the hook and stop accepting orders for a hour or so until we can catch up and fill them promptly. We would rather not take a order we can't fill then to leave the customer hanging with there money in are pocket. And if it does happen that way we offer them a full refund and the product for free to earn back there future business and it's kept us on top for 40 years. 

What kind of business you do? I saw you said detailing. But you also said drive 7 + hours lol so i can't figure it out. And you been in business for 40 years!?!? That's a long time

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Billy Jack    146
Posted (edited)

Through the day I work at my family's restaurant, and in the evening I detail cars. I also started a towing company with my brother and sister. Me and my sister fronted the money to buy the rollbacks, and wreckers and fence in the tow yard, and get the company on the county, and state call list and my brother, and nephew actually run it and do the hands on day to day work. And my grandpa started the restaurant over 40 years ago and he recently passed away, so I stepped in to give them a hand and still take care of my business with some hired help. It's a money maker man always has been. We feed  probably a 1/8th of the towns population almost everyday. Many, many corporations have set up shop, and tried to take a cut and we have been under selling and forcing them out for decades. Our secret is we are almost all family, so we keep what we make except running cost of course, so we can sell cheaper and offer delivery where no one else can afford to do that. My granny is a multi millionaire in her 70's but comes to work everyday, and earns her part. And the 4 or 5 non family members we do hire we pay them cash and they draw assistance so we only pay them $5-$6 a hour as self contractors. And my sister is a occupational therapist and she owns a company called southern heritage rehabilitation. She pays her people really well some of her nurses make $50 an hour. But she does some serious driving to seeing all her patients. But a lot of times we get cars we have towed in that no one pays out so we fix them and finish running in the ground. About a month ago we lucked up and got a 07' mustang convertible that had the rear end go out and after the garage fixed it the people couldn't pay it out and the finance company wouldn't pay the storage so we got it for the cost of the repair bill. $450. My sister is using it for a home health car right now. Some we put in the yard Or scrap to get our money. Oh and I also raise English bulldogs I deliver them all over the eastern sea board. And all this is why I don't have time for building boxes or competing like I used to, I wish I could, and I'm sure I will retire soon and begin again. 

Edited by Billy Jack

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Liro213    31

Hell of a life story there billy lol i ordered from fi last year in January and they took about a month I believe. Also did order some other times and they took about 3 weeks.

ssa took under/ about 3 weeks on my evil , zcon , and xcon

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ManzKea    37
36 minutes ago, Billy Jack said:

Through the day I work at my family's restaurant, and in the evening I detail cars. I also started a towing company with my brother and sister. Me and my sister fronted the money to buy the rollbacks, and wreckers and fence in the tow yard, and get the company on the county, and state call list and my brother, and nephew actually run it and do the hands on day to day work. And my grandpa started the restaurant over 40 years ago and he recently passed away, so I stepped in to give them a hand and still take care of my business with some hired help. It's a money maker man always has been. We feed  probably a 1/8th of the towns population almost everyday. Many, many corporations have set up shop, and tried to take a cut and we have been under selling and forcing them out for decades. Our secret is we are almost all family, so we keep what we make except running cost of course, so we can sell cheaper and offer delivery where no one else can afford to do that. My granny is a multi millionaire in her 70's but comes to work everyday, and earns her part. And the 4 or 5 non family members we do hire we pay them cash and they draw assistance so we only pay them $5-$6 a hour as self contractors. And my sister is a occupational therapist and she owns a company called southern heritage rehabilitation. She pays her people really well some of her nurses make $50 an hour. But she does some serious driving to seeing all her patients. But a lot of times we get cars we have towed in that no one pays out so we fix them and finish running in the ground. About a month ago we lucked up and got a 07' mustang convertible that had the rear end go out and after the garage fixed it the people couldn't pay it out and the finance company wouldn't pay the storage so we got it for the cost of the repair bill. $450. My sister is using it for a home health car right now. Some we put in the yard Or scrap to get our money. Oh and I also raise English bulldogs I deliver them all over the eastern sea board. And all this is why I don't have time for building boxes or competing like I used to, I wish I could, and I'm sure I will retire soon and begin again. 

Thanks for sharing man. Bottom line is dolla signs and looks like you're seeing em from all different angles. 

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ManzKea    37

That's not as horrific as billy made it seem early. We're the evils the 12's?

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Shogen    323
1 hour ago, altoncustomtech said:

You're making WAY too many assumptions about how things are done at SSA or Fi and quite frankly I'm tired of seeing the misinformation and slander that you keep spewing on the subject.

There are absolutely never any "pre-orders" with either company. There is no "stuck in port" excuse because each and every motor for each and every sub that is produced is machined from scratch from blank steel on site in Las Vegas Nevada. Then the drivers are hand built to order (custom ordered in the case of Fi) and the motors charged and tested before being packed and shipped out. The Fi build house OEMs for several companies, SSA and Crossfire included, along with the brick and mortar brand Ascendant Audio and those are just the ones that have been made public. They also have their hands in some industrial applications that I have almost no details on as it was only mentioned in passing during a chat conversation I had with Scott years ago. 

Things do occasionally get slow, they definitely do get backed up, but you are wrong about how they conduct their business, and you are really wrong about anything that is currently being sold still being "in the development phase". They do not pull the same bull that other companies do to try to get the capital together to make an order from some Chinese build house. 

There are (or at least used to be before the forum software got messed up and some old archived topics got lost) pictures of part of the process of how the build house builds the drivers. From how the blank steel becomes motor halves, to how the pole pieces are machined from raw steel rod, and so on. Nothing horribly detailed but enough to see and get a picture of the process in your mind. Those of us who've been here for awhile really do KNOW what it takes to build these drivers, not just the hearsay found on some random forum, which is why we state that the wait is worth it and why folks like me defend the brands when someone is misrepresenting them. 

 

This^^^ ... I've never been on pre-order with either SSA or Fi in my times since back on '09... Now wait times yes and def longer is there are specials or high demand but honestly only time I really see the longest is when these companies are upgrading/updating their driver specs

just my $00.01

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Billy Jack    146
1 hour ago, altoncustomtech said:

You're making WAY too many assumptions about how things are done at SSA or Fi and quite frankly I'm tired of seeing the misinformation and slander that you keep spewing on the subject.

There are absolutely never any "pre-orders" with either company. There is no "stuck in port" excuse because each and every motor for each and every sub that is produced is machined from scratch from blank steel on site in Las Vegas Nevada. Then the drivers are hand built to order (custom ordered in the case of Fi) and the motors charged and tested before being packed and shipped out. The Fi build house OEMs for several companies, SSA and Crossfire included, along with the brick and mortar brand Ascendant Audio and those are just the ones that have been made public. They also have their hands in some industrial applications that I have almost no details on as it was only mentioned in passing during a chat conversation I had with Scott years ago. 

Things do occasionally get slow, they definitely do get backed up, but you are wrong about how they conduct their business, and you are really wrong about anything that is currently being sold still being "in the development phase". They do not pull the same bull that other companies do to try to get the capital together to make an order from some Chinese build house. 

There are (or at least used to be before the forum software got messed up and some old archived topics got lost) pictures of part of the process of how the build house builds the drivers. From how the blank steel becomes motor halves, to how the pole pieces are machined from raw steel rod, and so on. Nothing horribly detailed but enough to see and get a picture of the process in your mind. Those of us who've been here for awhile really do KNOW what it takes to build these drivers, not just the hearsay found on some random forum, which is why we state that the wait is worth it and why folks like me defend the brands when someone is misrepresenting them. 

Uh, so why has the Evil 12" been up for sale, with a 21+ business day ship date for months, then a week or so ago we see a post "evil 12 finally coming soon" and in this thread it was said there was still some things to work out? That's what led me to assume they where pre-order, that and someone else said "setting here about to preorder and this pops up" in reference to the evil post, and no one corrected him. And I'm not trying to slander anyone, just sharing my observations, like with Fi. I even said I didn't try and call they may have picked right up. But I assure you in November and December nobody was answering email's. And also the guys who said they waited 6 months had ordered sundown subs from SSA, not SSA subs guess I should have specified that. They said they where told the parts where being held up in port.  So can you see how someone not knowing the guys personally would believe this all adds up to Pre-order. Actually know for a fact a few places are doing just that one is EMF but at least he tells you up front "no ship date just give me your money and I will get it to you as soon as it's built, if it can be built." Just seemed like the same deal to me maybe I misunderstood or read it wrong. 

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6 minutes ago, Billy Jack said:

Uh, so why has the Evil 12" been up for sale, with a 21+ business day ship date for months, then a week or so ago we see a post "evil 12 finally coming soon" and in this thread it was said there was still some things to work out? That's what led me to assume they where pre-order, that and someone else said "setting here about to preorder and this pops up" in reference to the evil post, and no one corrected him. And I'm not trying to slander anyone, just sharing my observations, like with Fi. I even said I didn't try and call they may have picked right up. But I assure you in November and December nobody was answering email's. And also the guys who said they waited 6 months had ordered sundown subs from SSA, not SSA subs guess I should have specified that. They said they where told the parts where being held up in port.  So can you see how someone not knowing the guys personally would believe this all adds up to Pre-order. Actually know for a fact a few places are doing just that one is EMF but at least he tells you up front "no ship date just give me your money and I will get it to you as soon as it's built, if it can be built." Just seemed like the same deal to me maybe I misunderstood or read it wrong. 

Thread necro. Check the timestamps. Double check and verify your sources before adding misleading information please, especially when it's derailing another topic.

On ‎2‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 6:52 PM, Mark LaFountain said:

Our much anticipated 12" version of the EVIL is due to arrive very soon.  We have a few on order to photograph for the store, and there are a few more details to work out on them, but you should see them in the store soon!

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jcarter1885    690
6 hours ago, Billy Jack said:

Yes I caught that to, estimated build time 21+ days is a little misleading in my opinion. The plus is right, but why even include 21 when the subs are still in the development phase, and you know they ain't coming for months. Or maybe they are coming sooner but didn't sound like it anyways. I spoke to a couple of guys who waited 6+ months for their orders. And they where not to happy with the take your money first, quote 21+ days then don't deliver for 6 months. To me it sounds like they just offer up pre-orders, and when they have collected enough capital to build a batch, they build and ship them. I'm thinking when they give the excuse "there stuck in the port" they just haven't sold enough pre-orders to have a batch built and your stuck, you either take a partial refund or wait. I can understand a new company doing this, but when you been in business for a decade, and don't have enough capital, or credit to keep at least some stock on hand something's wrong. Margins are to low or mismanagement or any slew of problems. I face a similar situation everyday, we run a small business 14 employees, 8 being full time and sometimes we have a small problem filling the demand but we have zero room to grow we are at maximum capacity so we just have to hang in there until demand lightens up. Maybe 1-2 times a year we have to take the phone off the hook and stop accepting orders for a hour or so until we can catch up and fill them promptly. We would rather not take a order we can't fill then to leave the customer hanging with there money in are pocket. And if it does happen that way we offer them a full refund and the product for free to earn back there future business and it's kept us on top for 40 years. 

If you never ordered from SSA or Fi then you cant speak on wait times, end of story. Obviously that evil thread was a year ago and someone commenting on it brings it up to recemt topics but that is too hard for you to understand. You continue to fail due to your ignorance.

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