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JakeFusion

Morel Hybrid or Focal KRX2

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JakeFusion    0

I haven't been able to audition these, but I've narrowed my front components down to this. Will be running a Sundown Audio 1100.5 and may drive them actively. 

It'll be in a 2002 Trans Am using the door structure where the tweeters are mounted low but aimed toward your ears. I understand the Focal sound is very bright and detailed and can be a bit harsh/tiring. However, my car is a bit loud and am afraid the Morel's flatter, warmer sound will be lost/overpowered by my subwoofer package, though I do prefer that sort of sound in general outside of the car. In addition, the Morels seem to have a better midrange/woofer that plays in the 50-3000hz range with a 2250 crossover vs Focal which is around 70-5000, relying on a 4700 crossover. So, I'm torn.

 

I think the Focals may sound better in the car with my subwoofer package (dual Arc 12s with 800W on the pair - was able to get a good deal on those and they are based on the IDQ v2s) in the rear well of the hatch. So to balance the setup, I'm thinking the Focals running 125W @ 2-ohm in a passive setup might work in this particular car where the brightness can help. Otherwise, the Morels would be active with 75W per channel. But I'm afraid the balance and neutrality won't be enough and they'd be overpowered. 

Pricewise, they are within $50 of each other right now. So, it's a toss-up.

Any thoughts?

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///M5    2,189

Brightness isn't louder.  You are comparing a hot dog and a chicken nuggets, which are you hungry for?

Might help us help you if we knew the logic that brought you this far.  The biggest confusion I see is running active and buying a component set.  Huge waste of money to buy a Crap ass car audio crossover when you can run active.  Both those sets have junk for crossovers.

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JakeFusion    0
Posted (edited)

Well, I should have phrased that better. I don't want a muddy sound to get lost in what's a noisier car interior than I think most of you guys run. My thought was a brighter sound may penetrate through that more. 

However, the Morel sound is closer to what I use with my Sennheiser reference headphones where I do a large portion of my listening. I do like a warm, flat sound. But in the car, I've always enjoyed a more lively and punchier note. 

I originally started looking at the CDT Audio components and they seem decent, but a bit overpriced. So I started looking at Hybrid Audio. The Clarus midrange seems pretty good but the tweeter is not. Stepping up to the Legatia or Legatia SE  line adds a lot of cost.   

So then I started looking at Morel for a closer sound to my ideal and Focal for something that might work a little better in my car.  Which led me to this post. I'm not opposed to just buying some midrange/midwoofers and tweeters separately. Budget would be about $700. 

I am planning to run active... so either 75W @ 4-ohm or 120W @ 2-ohm with my Sundown Amp. 

Edited by JakeFusion

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///M5    2,189

What do you have for processing?  ALL of the sets you listed are hugely over priced.

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JakeFusion    0

On board processing of the Pioneer DEH80PRS to start with...

For a better price, would the Scan-Speak 18W Revelators and D3004 Illuminators do better? I've seen a lot of very positive things about them as well. 

 

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///M5    2,189

Didn't know you had an 80.  Plenty for a 2 way with a tweeter which makes the sets you were looking at not ideal.

The Rev's don't love doors, but are killer drivers.  I haven't been in 02 to know what the mounting looks like.  Your description helps, but nailing the tweet you can use is where I'd start.

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JakeFusion    0
Posted (edited)

Both are in the door. Tweeters are angled up. The dimensions for the tweeter are that the door holds a 1.95" diameter tweeter. But everything would be a surface mount there. It has a bracket that I could ziptie or tape the tweeter to. But there's no "mount" so to speak. 

DSC_8090.jpg

DSC_8034.jpg

DSC_8029.jpg

Edited by JakeFusion

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///M5    2,189

If you can mount a 4" driver, like this one: 

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/ring-radiator-tweeters/vifa-xt25tg30-04-1-ring-radiator-tweeter/

it opens a ton more options.  If you cannot, then you are more limited in your choices.  The pictures help a ton, thank you.  I have a question that I cannot tell from the pictures and that is about how far off axis the tweeters will be?  It looks to me like perhaps even 15-30deg at most from both of them.  Reason that this is good to know is that we should look for a tweeter that has a nice off axis response for the amount they are off axis.  The second parameter I always recommend for a first time active is one that digs as low as possible (low Fs) so that you have a bunch of flexibility.  IIRC the lowest logical tweeter crossover on the 80 is 1250 which then getting a tweeter that can play to there could be advantageous.  Might be unecessary, but the flexibility gives you more capability to dial it in and the lower it goes the more you can focus on midbass with the mid.

Also curious how deep of a baffle you can fit on the mid and if a true 7" driver will fit.  This will also open a ton of options.

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JakeFusion    0

Door is very deep. I think it's like 4.5" there. And I can run a 7" by modifying the door. 

It's off axis in that range. They are definitely angled up toward the ears but they are down low in the door, so not ideal. But it does provide more room there. 

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Notorious97200    304

I'm so happy with my active setup.

It's not worth paying for a pair of crossovers you will never use.

 You already have a processor with the head unit. So, your budget will let you buy better equipments, and deadening products (if you need some).

M5 will guide you in the right direction. :dancing:

 

 

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///M5    2,189
1 hour ago, JakeFusion said:

It's off axis in that range. They are definitely angled up toward the ears but they are down low in the door, so not ideal. But it does provide more room there. 

Only worried about the tweeter aiming.  Can you estimate how far off axis both the drivers and passengers are?

Sounds like you can fit a real mid :)

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JakeFusion    0

Passenger side is pretty much right on my face. Driver aims in front of me. Off by 25 degrees or so. 

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JakeFusion    0

Would the SSA Evil Tweeters and Mids be a good option? The price on those is much better than the Morels, Focals, or Scan-Speak stuff I pointed to earlier. I'm just not sure how they compare. 

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///M5    2,189
22 hours ago, JakeFusion said:

Passenger side is pretty much right on my face. Driver aims in front of me. Off by 25 degrees or so. 

I'd prefer if you measured.  25 degrees or so is of a degree that can make a big difference.  For instance here is a somewhat standard tweeter frequency response.

f_seas_prestige_loudspeaker_tweeter_h118

 

The three curves are 0 degrees, 30 degrees and 60 degrees.  In this case you can see that by 10kHz at 30deg you are already down by 3dB on the more off axis tweeter.  Different tweeters will have different off axis responses.  The difference between 15 deg and 30 deg could easily be a not so nice response versus one that is very easy to tune.  Just hold a measuring stick to your ear and tweeter and then try to find the angle.  If it is 25 we will just look for a tweeter that is reasonably close to the 0 deg performance off axis and go from there.

The reason to pick the tweeter first is that the better off axis response typically means that it won't play as low.  If it can't play as low we then need a mid that can play higher.  Capability for the drivers to overlap gives you more options in tuning which is helpful for a first install.

2 hours ago, JakeFusion said:

Would the SSA Evil Tweeters and Mids be a good option? The price on those is much better than the Morels, Focals, or Scan-Speak stuff I pointed to earlier. I'm just not sure how they compare. 

They very well could be a great solution for you.  Definitely an upgrade as compared to the Focals you chose and I would also expect over the Morels.  In application the Evil mid is probably also better suited than the Scan-speak Revelator you chose as well.  I personally however am not ready to recommend any product until we are sure of the potential install.

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JakeFusion    0

Okay, did a measurement. It's 5 degrees off-axis on the passenger side and 30 degrees driver side. 

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JakeFusion    0

Couple of pics tried to take where my head is and look down at the doors...

signal-2017-08-09-120754.jpeg

signal-2017-08-09-120750.jpeg

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///M5    2,189

That looks like less than 25deg to me, but it is easiest if you literally point a measuring stick from your ear to the speaker and then see how far off the angle is about.

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JakeFusion    0

That's what I did. It's flat against the speaker grill. The tweeter itself may be angled back a little more. So I think we're safe to assume less than 30 but not 0. 

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///M5    2,189

Closer to 30 or 15?

 

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JakeFusion    0
Posted (edited)

I'm really digging the SSA Evil Tweeters and 6.5s.

One other company I've looked at is the Stereo Integrity M25 Tweeters and TM65 Midbass. Here are the charts for them. Looks like they could be crossed in the 2000-2800 range and perform well, especially on-axis with the tweeters. 

 

 

M25-FR-and-Imp.jpg

TM65mkII_CloseMic_90dB_webpage.jpg

Edited by JakeFusion

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///M5    2,189

Not a bad idea.  The classic budget Seas Neo is better than the drivers in the sets you were looking at and the SSA Evil is more appealing.  Other possibilities are more esoteric as you could fit some depth and something larger than the size of a neo tweet, but it is probably way more hassle than gain.

Reducing to a 3/4" driver will improve the off axis but raise the crossover point.  Starting off without that limitation would be good IMO.

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JakeFusion    0

Hi M5,

Thanks for everything so far!

Are you talking something like these for the tweeters? 

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/auto-tweeters/seas-prestige-27tffnc/g-h1396-1-textile-dome-tweeter/#tab-3

You think these would be better than the Evil Tweeters or those SI M25s? Or the Peerless tweeter your posted before? I think I can get them on-axis or very close. 

And it sounds like you're recommended the Evil 6.5s? If those SI TM65s were a little cheaper, I might go that route. The reviews for those seem to be very excellent. 

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///M5    2,189

Sorry, I wasn't super clear.  The Seas Neo that you linked USED to be the defacto driver for your sort of application.  I generally have a Seas boner, but that driver I am not terribly impressed with.  The Evil tweet would be a better choice.

As for the mid, I haven't played with the SI TM65s but am generally not interested in trying.  Large Xmax drivers playing higher in frequency is something that is far from trivial to design around and the SI crew does not have a ton of engineering measurement capability at their disposal.  It is possible the design is fine, but it is also possible it is a wreck.  Taking subjective internet reviews as the gospel is also horribly frightening as the average car audio enthusiast can't hear crap.

If I were going to spend SI money on the drivers, for your application I would recommend the Seas ER18.  There are other drivers that do other things better, but ease of integration into your system is key and that driver is super easy from that domain.  (ie, wide and flat frequency response without anomalies).  The Evil mid is priced real aggressively for what it is though so you aren't paying Norwegian markup like on the Seas.   The CA18 even integrates easier, but you lose some mid clarity that the ER has.

 

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JakeFusion    0

SSA Tweeters + Mids it is then. For the price, it's hard to beat them. 

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