FI 418s 4th order single reflex bandpass design!!!

[ronrico418 0]

I've been into stereos for 19 years and for the past 10 years have been waiting for this settup again. I was hitting in the 150s in 1991. A friend and BASS buddy passed away tragically 3 years ago. Since then I've really stepped it up looking for the same settup we both had back in 1990. He used 4 18" Lanzars and I had 4 18" punch. We both had Orion 2250SX's running our systems. The black beast I'm sure most of you knew that. I really want do duplicate this system for Kelly Boy and have many great memories of him including many in Daytona. Now when me and my friends get together at SBN every year we always get to talk about him together.

Don't mean to get anyone down but I want anyone who is interested in helping me undestand the importance of closely duplicating the enclosure for pure sentimental reasons. I AM NOT even the slightest bit concerned about SPL. I would like to show up at every show and just jam it all day. The hell with the trophy. I want people to remember who let them come up and sit in it all day. Oh and played music in a real truck. not a tank and a fart or was that burp. I appreciate the DRAG portion of SPL because Nitro Methane are badd ass for a 1/4 mile pass at 327mph 4.57 seconds but then they tear them apart and rebuild for the next run every time. I want an Indy Car or a Formula 1. Something that has better performance in more areas. How about an ENZO

I've really been keeping up with car audio and go to Daytona SBN every year. I was blown away that FI rolled up in there this year as strong as they did and I didn't even know anything about them. Because of FI this was by far the best show in over 10 years. I met Kent he was really cool and gave me and my friends great demo's even played a request. Slowed down bass. We really wanted to see a test of the FI's and he gave it to us. Also met the guy in the white minivan w/ kicker amps installed by big mike's. Don't remember his name if anyone can help but he was also really cool and gave us a nice clear DEMO. Does anyone know what models they are running. My heart was beating so fast I was so excited I forgot to ask. I just listened in amazement.

So does anyone know which line of FI 418s would work best in a single reflex bandpass 3 chambers drivers side chamber 2 woofers firing into center chamber passenger chamber will have 2 woofers also firing into the center chamber. All woofers will be perfectly sideway facing towards each other but offset for example the front drivers side woofer will be low and the back one high then the passenger side chamber will have the front one high and the rear one low. The center chamber will fire into the cab between the bucket seats through a port about 4 inches long and big enough to climb inside comfortably - well somewhat. Definately not if it's on!!! Although I did that with my punch at 250rms each 418's the early 90s. I have been really anxious to use this box again as it is still a legend in my hometown of Tampa (ask Scotty that built Tommy's box) the 418's box me and Kelly had was the most impressive thing I've ever heard not necessarily the highest SPL. 155 would make me giddy but agin I'm not even concerned about that. This is a tribute box for a fallen Bass Bro. That's it.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

This is my 88 Blazer that will see 4 FI 18s soon. Not sure which ones to use yet. Would like to build a single reflex bandpass just for making some air move. Gonna keep on reading this site. Thx everyone in advance!

Currently leaning towards the Bl's with all upgrades and a 40001 Rockford. and and maybe a second one day. If 2000 RMS per properly adjusted will be beneficial.

Thanks again Joe Rod

Edited March 29, 2007 by 418FIs

[audio-neon 34]

Personally if you are going for spl, stick with the bl's and btl's.

I would choose the btl's just because they are virtually indestructable. Maybe some crazy amps like a Pair of DD z1's,

[ronrico418 0]

Personally if you are going for spl, stick with the bl's and btl's.

I would choose the btl's just because they are virtually indestructable. Maybe some crazy amps like a Pair of DD z1's,

again I am NOT the least bit concerned about SPL. was leaning towards BL but also looking at the Q

[audio-neon 34]

If you are looking for a great all around woofer i would choose the Bl over the Q, its definitely got enough sq/spl to hold its own from either perspective, and it can handle more power.

[tejcurrent 13]

If you want to get 1 rf4k, and maybe one day 2, I'd go with the BLs. They'll easily handle 1kw, but they still sound good with around 2k. I don't fee like you'd want the BTLs if you only plan on giving them 1kw a piece-they like to be fed. The BL would be better suited for 2kw than the SSD or the Q (for future upgrades like you mentioned. I like your plan of BLs on a RF 4k.

Good luck with the recreation.

[jracer 0]

hey , i am the guy with the white astro van at daytona.. my name is john.. lil john as my freinds call me...

i have 16 -12 inch SSD woffers with 600 watts per driver sealed...

glad ya liked my van..

hope that helps you..

if you are from tampa .. back in the day.. big mike ( my installer ) was into box's like you want to build....he did many like that back in the day..

lil- john...

Edited March 28, 2007 by liljohn

[NDMstang65 403]

any ideas on enclosure sizes?

Only kind of 4th orders i've messed with are ones to do 170+++ dB lol .

[Fi Car Audio 64]

Gladly help with whatever we can.

As Nick asked above, what kind of sizing are we talking about per chamber? Or can we take some artistic liberty with that as well?

Depending on the chamber sizing and tunings, it will be a little easier to point you in the best direction for product. No need to take an ultra heavy handed approach in any one direction if the cost isnt warranted.

Thanks, and welcome to the forum!

Scott

[ronrico418 0]

hey , i am the guy with the white astro van at daytona.. my name is john.. lil john as my freinds call me...

i have 16 -12 inch SSD woffers with 600 watts per driver sealed...

glad ya liked my van..

hope that helps you..

if you are from tampa .. back in the day.. big mike ( my installer ) was into box's like you want to build....he did many like that back in the day..

lil- john...

Hey lil John. Yes I'm the guy from Tampa. I do live an hour north of Tampa now. We definately remember you and the 16 - 12 SSD's. You saw how excited I was we talked and questions were answered but I forgot to ask your name in my bewildered head.. Thanks again for giving such a clear undistorted demo. My world rocked and as you can see I'm trying to catch up. Thanks to FI, SSA, and everyone like yourself reppin FI with an old school flavor and not the same old SPL box everyone is copying. I call it the washermachine box that always needs to be shut to run.

The program used to build our 418s boxes actually came from Audiomotion in Altomonte Springs. Mark, Doug Denardin, and Jeff Blair were a big help back in those days to push the envelope further. They had a red nissan mini with 12 Lanzar 18's in 1991. Sold me and Kelly Boy at a show at the "old sombrero" in case your not from our area that's the old Tampa Stadium that was torn down when the Bucs moved nextdoor.

LJohn is Big Mike the guy that used to have the 40 10s back in 91. There was a big Mike that had that settup in Tampa he built with Bill from Mild2Wild. I had 3410s then and I know him pretty good. Talked to him Sat night at SBN at the glowoff while Tommy (another Tampa homeboy) was doing SPL's for the crowd. Lemme know if it's the same Big Mike. His 40 10s were in a white Isuzu mini

lj do you know Kent's settup? models, amps and batts. So I can make note of what I actually heard in person.

Thanks, Joe Rod

Scott I'm going to need some really red stickers. Torch Red if possible. Or maybe chrome - how bout both haha I'll overlap them - sweet CAN'T WAIT

[NDMstang65 403]

Need to know a volume figure so we can figure out what will work best for you. (Rough guess on cubic feet and how much room you have to work with)

[ronrico418 0]

any ideas on enclosure sizes?

Only kind of 4th orders i've messed with are ones to do 170+++ dB lol .

Enclosure can take up entire rear of 1st generation S10 Blazer. No back seat. In my s10 minitruck back in 91 the box came back to about 3/4 way through the wheel wells and all the way up to the topper walled off with fake panels connected to the big port firing into the cab through one big port that was about 20"x34"x4. I know this box will need to be slightly different as far as airspace used and port area. But I'd really like to know which sub to use to stay as close as possible. Don't have my truck here but I'll get some numbers for you. Having a new 350 put in and 700r4 tranny!. I do know this. If you read my box description and understood it in the 1st post. The center chamber was equal to both rear chambers combined. Thx again NDMstang65 and all helping with this totally informative forum.

Joe Rod FI418s

Edited March 28, 2007 by 418FIs

[ronrico418 0]

Gladly help with whatever we can.

As Nick asked above, what kind of sizing are we talking about per chamber? Or can we take some artistic liberty with that as well?

Depending on the chamber sizing and tunings, it will be a little easier to point you in the best direction for product. No need to take an ultra heavy handed approach in any one direction if the cost isnt warranted.

Thanks, and welcome to the forum!

Scott

Thanks for your prompt response Scott. I'll have some numbers for everyone soon - Joey

[jracer 0]

yup ... same big mike...

you got it !!

"We definately remember you and the 16 - 12 SSD's. You saw how excited I was we talked and questions were answered but I forgot to ask your name in my bewildered head.. Thanks again for giving such a clear undistorted demo."

see ya...

lil john

Edited March 28, 2007 by liljohn

[ronrico418 0]

yup ... same big mike...

you got it !!

"We definately remember you and the 16 - 12 SSD's. You saw how excited I was we talked and questions were answered but I forgot to ask your name in my bewildered head.. Thanks again for giving such a clear undistorted demo."

see ya...

lil john

lj,

Well big Mike new Kelly Boy too. As a matter of fact he is one of the friends I spoke of above that I got to share a moment about during the Glowoff of the Daytona SBN's. When I met Kelly we we're both at sign solutions in 1990 - he was getting an Orion sticker blown up to fit the rear window of his Leer snugtop on his daytona yellow 83 S10. I was getting Rockford Fosgate sticker's blown up on my daytona yellow 84 Tbird. He had the Lanzar 418s in a single reflex bandpass and I had 2 Pro Fosgate 15s in a ported enclosure. He had an Orion 2250sx Beast and I had the Mosfet Power 1000 by Rockford.

Well I'll tell you that sitting in my own car Kelly boy just drowned me out. But I had just seen the light. I then had direction. 418s are very impressive and although I ended up with a much bigger system, I always missed the 418s. Just something about them and that was with ancient technology.With what we have now i just kinda wonder if the SSD is what I need only cuz it HAS to be almost 10 times better than the 250rms punch 18 of yesteryear. But still I could only imagine the BLs with proper power. The 418s was so impressive I just want it to be as good as it was 147 was max but with doors shut on the B&K but it was tuned really low and played the LOW notes better than anybody with a still punchy upper bass.

Thanks to anyone who cares to read and to lil john stay cool!!! Peace Joe Rod

Tell Mike I said Hi

[ronrico418 0]

Leaning towards 4 SSD 18s with options and a Rockford 3000 or 4000

[ronrico418 0]

UPDATE

Since the last post I have met Shawn F. and have come to one solid conclusion. I'm going to order the Q's 418s and I'm going to put them in my old school bandpass. I have to give it a shot for nothing other than our fallen bass brotha!

I can do the woodwork but I do need help figuring out port size. 24 cubic feet easily available. Contact me on this thread or PM if you have the program or think you can help me. Thanks Joe

[///M5 2,833]

Since all you asked for was port size do you know what volume you are using for both sides of the enclosure?

[Fi Car Audio 64]

Just really quick look at things... 7 cuft front chamber with (randomly selected port size) 10" X 19.5" X 23" long port and a sealed rear chamber of 14 cuft looks OK. Tunes port to 46 Hz and gives you a useable f3 of about 24 Hz and 90 Hz. You can add a bunch of poly fill... up to about 10lbs and drop the bottom end a Hz or two more. Saddle shapped with -3 in the center at 45 Hz. But it should blend well overall and have plenty of bottom end.

Ill go through tonight with my favorite program and confirm all of this.

Thanks,

Scott

[dmz2711 0]

Just really quick look at things... 7 cuft front chamber with (randomly selected port size) 10" X 19.5" X 23" long port and a sealed rear chamber of 14 cuft looks OK. Tunes port to 46 Hz and gives you a useable f3 of about 24 Hz and 90 Hz. You can add a bunch of poly fill... up to about 10lbs and drop the bottom end a Hz or two more. Saddle shapped with -3 in the center at 45 Hz. But it should blend well overall and have plenty of bottom end.

Ill go through tonight with my favorite program and confirm all of this.

Thanks,

Scott

not tryin to hijack this thread, just have a quick question. Out of curiosity what program do you use? I've used a couple different programs, and online calcs, but all give various figures when it comes to port length, peak freq, etc. I'm just wondering what the pros use... thanks.

[ronrico418 0]

Scott and ///M5 There are 2 rear chambers both firing into the center chamber. 2 baffles firing at each other except the woofers are mounted offset so they are NOT firing directly at each other! We had 6cf in each rear chamber and 12cf in the center chamber. The port was 17"W 28"H 4 1/2"L. Tuned to 32hz I think? Also we were using 4 RFpunch 18's 250 RMS pushed by an Orion "beast" 2250SX 2ohm stereo almost 18 years ago. Recreating with the 4 FI Q 18s and will be using 1 RF4000 and not soon enough 2 RF4000's. Will I be needing dual 1 or 2?

Scott please figure all this in when you play with the numbers. I'll try and get you a rough pic of my box design and thanks for your time. This build means alot to a bunch of people.

I told Shawn if i didn't work out we could tear it apart (he suggested just ripping out the baffles) and I'll go reg ported. I really want it to work with bandpass though!

DMZ2711 Great question! Also Thanks for givin' me a demo at Shawn's shop yesterday. (DMZ2711 is you right?) Let me tell you all about it. He played 4 different songs for me and I was thinking "yeah" it sounds like 2 15's the window is moving what looked like 1/2 an inch it was kinda loud but didn't feel alot of pressure. Remember I've been sponsored and I've had really big systems. Anyway Shawn walks up and told him to turn it up. He put in a cd cranked up the volume and let it rip! WOW!!! The windshield really stated moving and I even felt a pleasant uncomfortable itching in my left ear. The pressure was inreased 4 fold and all off of 2 BTL15's (pretty small ported box considering)in a small car running off 2 Kicker 2500's (I think). Not to jack my own thread but I was very impressed. They were going to add 3 more batteries when I was leaving. Kudos Joe Rod

Edited April 24, 2007 by 418FIs

[ronrico418 0]

In case there were any questions about how great I am when it comes to drawing let me go ahead and prove I'm No Artist. Here is a rough sketch of my box design - Single Reflex Bandpass for 4 FI Q 18s

NOTE 1st picture is viewed from the top ported to the 2 front seats in my 88 S10 Blazer.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Ro...18/IMG_0055.jpg

NOTE 2nd picture is viewed from the side with baffles, braces, and sides removed. The ones that look like rims are supposed to be the magnet and baskets of the 2 woofers that will sit directly behind the passenger. The 2 with the attempted FI logo would be directly behind the driver. I already stated I have no drawing abilities right. My last attempt at drawing today was the front seat and steering wheel. I have a bench seat now but will change to buckets so the port area will be basically firing into the front of the cab through the opening between the bucket seats. Hope this has helped with what I'm trying to convey and not created more confusion than understanding.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Ro...18/IMG_0060.jpg

To Scott, M5, and anyone else that cares to help. I thank you all in advance for your time and efforts. I'm very appreciative for everyone with FI and this forum. Joe Rod

Edited April 24, 2007 by 418FIs

[dmz2711 0]

Scott and ///M5 There are 2 rear chambers both firing into the center chamber. 2 baffles firing at each other except the woofers are mounted offset so they are NOT firing directly at each other! We had 6cf in each rear chamber and 12cf in the center chamber. The port was 17"W 28"H 4 1/2"L. Tuned to 32hz I think? Also we were using 4 RFpunch 18's 250 RMS pushed by an Orion "beast" 2250SX 2ohm stereo almost 18 years ago. Recreating with the 4 FI Q 18s and will be using 1 RF4000 and not soon enough 2 RF4000's. Will I be needing dual 1 or 2?

Scott please figure all this in when you play with the numbers. I'll try and get you a rough pic of my box design and thanks for your time. This build means alot to a bunch of people.

I told Shawn if i didn't work out we could tear it apart (he suggested just ripping out the baffles) and I'll go reg ported. I really want it to work with bandpass though!

DMZ2711 Great question! Also Thanks for givin' me a demo at Shawn's shop yesterday. (DMZ2711 is you right?) Let me tell you all about it. He played 4 different songs for me and I was thinking "yeah" it sounds like 2 15's the window is moving what looked like 1/2 an inch it was kinda loud but didn't feel alot of pressure. Remember I've been sponsored and I've had really big systems. Anyway Shawn walks up and told him to turn it up. He put in a cd cranked up the volume and let it rip! WOW!!! The windshield really stated moving and I even felt a pleasant uncomfortable itching in my left ear. The pressure was inreased 4 fold and all off of 2 BTL15's (pretty small ported box considering)in a small car running off 2 Kicker 2500's (I think). Not to jack my own thread but I was very impressed. They were going to add 3 more batteries when I was leaving. Kudos Joe Rod

yeah thats me. Thanks! I am glad you like the little demo. To be honest, my ears were killing me the rest of the night. Hopefully I could go louder, but i need some ear plugs from now on!

I hope you get your box figured out, if I could help at all just let me know. Take care man!!

[ALL4SPL 4]

Ok I KNOW this is an OLD topic but I am working on a SPL archive and looking for Photo's of Doug Denardin's Slayer and Slayer2 truck. Since his name was posted here a couple times it came up in a Google search. Lord knows he was doing SPL before the internet was even standard in homes. Anyway if anyone has any photos of this trucks please get with me I would love to add them to my archive.

Thanks

PS - Im an old SPL freak also just never could afford the system the size of dougs back in the day. RIP my 2 fosgate 8s in a T-line.

Edited March 1, 2012 by All4Spl

[Chris Timmons 0]

Ok I KNOW this is an OLD topic but I am working on a SPL archive and looking for Photo's of Doug Denardin's Slayer and Slayer2 truck. Since his name was posted here a couple times it came up in a Google search. Lord knows he was doing SPL before the internet was even standard in homes. Anyway if anyone has any photos of this trucks please get with me I would love to add them to my archive.

Thanks

PS - Im an old SPL freak also just never could afford the system the size of dougs back in the day. RIP my 2 fosgate 8s in a T-line.

I think I still have pictures from back in the day. The guys at Audio Motion are what got be in the biz back then. From the day Jeff set a record at 153.4 with the killer red truck running 12- 18's running on 4- 2100HCCA's to the multiple configs that Doug had. He actually had 12-12's in the cab of his Nissan truck! It will take me some time to find them. May still have the video when he set USAC Worls Record in Daytona...

[up2late 0]

Has anyone found any pics of slayer?, i have been looking since 2003.