OIf/OEF

[Godsmack 360]

I wanna know how you all feel about this.

Post your answer and a reason if you want.

J

[helotaxi 46]

You don't want me to get into why.

[Godsmack 360]

Go right ahead..........this is an open discussion with multiple view points here bro.

Feel free to express yourself.

J

[mrray13 30]

stay till it's over. it was started, it has to be finished, plain and simple. but take the gloves off and do it right.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[helotaxi 46]

^^^That's a succinct way of saying what I think. I've spent nearly every day the last 2 years fighting both of those conflicts and I see some of the stupid chit that gets done attempting to fight a kinder gentler war against an enemy that only respects and understands the ruthless application of power and violence. We are more than capable of giving them that in spades and until we do, they won't stop. The negative press and war protests only give them more strength and resolve. They know that they can't beat us, but Vietnam and Somalia showed all the dirtbag 3rd world assholes that they don't have to beat us simply make sure the whole thing gets bad press and the morons here will see to it that we quit and leave. Setting a timetable is even worse than just picking up and leaving unannounced. If we make it known that we are leaving on X date, that gives the enemy an exact goal. They know that they can go all out killing our troops until that date and don't have to worry about being able to sustain their operations longer than that.

There was a very good case for the Iraqi invasion. Any serious research will lay the case out there along with the sources of the information. We know where the "missing" WMD went, right back where it came from. Think of it as "repossessed" by the country that supplied the newer stuff to preserve their standing on the world stage. The French and Germans were against the invasion and were for lifting the sanctions because of oil. They knew, rightly, that if we invaded, and deposed Saddam the under the table deals they had with him would be voided and they would lose access to the oil resources that they accused us of trying to sieze. The UN has been nothing more than a joke the entire time, as well. What's the point of passing resolutions if you don't set any consequences for failure to comply? What's the point of laying out consequences if you fail to follow through with them?

There's a lot more of this that I can't go into but there's some stuff to think about.

[topgun 262]

Stay there till its done, just kick most of the media out.

[Godsmack 360]

taxi, pm me with more please....................i wanna know about this ish.

J

[helotaxi 46]

taxi, pm me with more please....................i wanna know about this ish.

Nothing I could discuss outside a SCIF.

[helotaxi 46]

What I can say is that if you want a good read involving all the stuff leading up to the Iraq invasion, The Secret History of the Iraq War by Josef Bodansky will fill the bill.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

This whole thing sucks for everyone. Nobody comes out a winner. That's the problem. It will never be finished.

I agree that something should have been done, but I don't agree with the fact that the US is always in charge of taking care of the world's problems. Evereyone else always bitches about the problems but do nothing. Then we get involved and they complain more. If we didn't get involved, they complain until we did. The other nations bitch that we are trying to rule the world, but when it comes down to it, everyone wants help from us. Hell, Osama wanted help when we went to Kuwait, his homeland, and then when it didn't go exactly how he wanted it, we became his enemy.

Helotaxi hit the nail on the head. These people are very biblical and stuck in those times. Now that is fine, but if you want them to understand you, you have to speak in terms they understand, and diplomacy is simply not it. They understand force and power and that's how you have to go at them and just keep at it until basically there is nothing left to question.

[ANeonRider 3]

Pull out now, and watch out.

Finish the job.

[Godsmack 360]

taxi, pm me with more please....................i wanna know about this ish.

Nothing I could discuss outside a SCIF.

anytime. I got a secure line.

J

[helotaxi 46]

taxi, pm me with more please....................i wanna know about this ish.

Nothing I could discuss outside a SCIF.

anytime. I got a secure line.

Sadly I just moved to the training unit here and we don't

[Brent 0]

I think we should stay until it is over but that is just my opinion. And i pretty much agree with everything helotaxi said

[JimJ 11]

It hasn't been "over" since the Crusades, why should we expect anything different now?

We are more than capable of giving them that in spades and until we do, they won't stop.

Who's to say they'll stop after that? We'll have their children to worry about...

Short of wiping out entire populations, there's no easy solution. And I'm not sure genocide is any more graceful of an option than backing out.

[Scarenius 0]

In terms of what RIckRolled just said, I'm all for genocide. I know that sounds harsh, but we're basically two sides of the same coin. Our society believes we are right and that our way of life is the only right way to live. We'll kill and die to support that belief. Their society believes they are right and that their way of life is the only right way to live. They'll kill and dies to support that belief.

I'm not saying one side is right or wrong. Actually, both us and them are wrong in our belief that our way of life is the right one. I'm saying that 1) there are enough humans on the planet anyway and 2) one less culture means one less "taker" society to cause conflict. (think of the book "Ishmael")

Of course, I'm not talking just us, but everyone. The world itself needs to stand up to one side or the other (i'm putting us on the line, too) and say "Enough is enough - calm the **** down or we'll destroy your lives, your culture, your religion, and your very existance".

EDIT: Forgot to comment about the poll. While IMO few know why this conflict started, we can decide how it will end. We have to see it through. Personally, I don't even know why we're there right now. I guess I'm totally ignorant in that sense. I do know that's half assing something leads to a half assed job.

Edited May 2, 2007 by Scarenius

[Godsmack 360]

Its one of those "depends on where ur at" things............BD and yea no pucking clue, some of the other provinces, you see why it started and why it continues.

SCAR I agree, it may be the only real way..........Either chill or face a quick through withdrawl and a few nukes.

J

[Scarenius 0]

Its one of those "depends on where ur at" things............BD and yea no pucking clue, some of the other provinces, you see why it started and why it continues.

J

I remember after the first initial fighting where we took over, that Bush talked a bit about restoring the necessities like electricity and running water, but that was at least a year ago.

Unfortunately, the news doesn't offer much on what's going on in Iraq and Afhganistan (sp?).

(And on a totally random sidenote, I was I could change my screenname.)

[JimJ 11]

The world itself needs to stand up to one side or the other (i'm putting us on the line, too) and say "Enough is enough - calm the **** down or we'll destroy your lives, your culture, your religion, and your very existance".

Already happened, except it was called "Mutually Assured Destruction". Still didn't stop wars from taking place...deterrence wasn't much of a solution.

[JimJ 11]

I've got a question to those who answered "Stay 'Till It's Over"...

When is it over? I think it's important to understand what that means...

[Scarenius 0]

Already happened, except it was called "Mutually Assured Destruction". Still didn't stop wars from taking place...deterrence wasn't much of a solution.

I disagree. MAD (Most appropriate abbreviation ever) to me meant that sides A and B were both totally capable of ending all life on the planet, and if one attacked, the other would. This time around, both sides have already attacked - the outcry would be from a third party (The REST of the world)

Also, we never went to war with Russia, so in that sense, it *did* work...

When is it over? I think it's important to understand what that means...

For me, "over" is when 1) the people native to the land can support themselves without resorting to hunter-gatherer for food and water and 2) they are emotionally ready to go it alone. Personally, I think this period came and went a long time ago. If I'm reading the news right, most of the violence now in Iraq is between Sunni Muslims and Shiite Muslims, which being a predominantly Christian nation is not our place to intervene or choose sides.

[Godsmack 360]

Ummm Scar ur in another place. They ARE NOT prodominatly Christian.

To me its over once the Iraq police and military can rule and be effective. with people defecting and being too scared to stand up we are SOL.

J

[Scarenius 0]

Hehe, I meant WE are a predominantly Christian nation. Not them. Bad grammar on my part.

[Jmac 24]

Eh, the longer this goes on, the more it benefits Canada's economy, so I vote stay until it's over ...

[JimJ 11]

If I'm reading the news right, most of the violence now in Iraq is between Sunni Muslims and Shiite Muslims,

Which has been going on since about the time of Mohammed.

I think we have an obligation to help the country we bombed into submission, yes, but staying until it's "over" is a Western thought. We like to think things are over in time for the next elections, but in truth these people have been in conflict for over a thousand years. That's not going to get fixed anytime soon.

This isn't Germany or Japan after WWII...