Fatmat is a hoax......

[Rudeboy 152]

its more.. your snide comments towards 2 well respected members of the board than fatmat..

It is not my intention to step on people's toes, nor is it my intention or practice to kiss the asses of anybody. I was bumping this thread to draw SteveFatMat out - encouraging him to go on record instead of just using this forum as a vehicle for posting a press release.

Perhaps I should have been more clear about that, but I really didn't want to directly call the guy out. Any fair reading of the posts that led to the blow up make it pretty clear that these two "respected" members questioned my ethics and were very condescending and childish about a few bucks. After something like 30,000 readers, nobody else has been that petty. It pissed me off and I have no tolerance for those who can't take what they dish out.

It is fine that most of the people here are intimately familiar with the histories and credentials of every other poster. I am not and no casual user will be. One of these members sells product in this market without identifying himself as such in signature or on his member side bar. This is a huge problem on any public use board, so I would suggest people be a little less quick to throw stones. It's completely obvious where I'm coming from to anyone that is willing to take the time to look into it.

I believe I am owed an apology (but don't expect to receive it) from the member who suggested I am trying to scam product. People trying to promote what he sells out of his little storefront would obviously make a significant dent in his bottom line if he sent it to them. What I am talking about has a cost of no more than a buck or two. No equivalence at all. Doesn't matter, I only came here because I use ZED amps and noticed there were sound deadener related questions. Whether certain members like it or not - hell, whether I like it or not, I am an expert on aftermarket automotive sound deadeners. That isn't bragging and I'm not suggesting I have done anything that anybody else couldn't do. The fact is, I did do it, so it is what it is. Big deal. Not worth bragging about and not worth anybody else nipping at my heels because they need to protect their big fish in a small pond status.

Back to the task at hand.

[Rudeboy 152]

The quoted material below looks different than the original because I added paragraphs. Call me arrogant if you like, but I find them useful

Like I already mentioned I by no means am trying to avoid any comments made here, we have nothing to hide. We have been very busy forming FatMat. The sites, registration information, customer support, shipping, new products and so on.

This is a very long post and it is difficult knowing were to start, but lets start with the reason this post started, a customer didn't get his product. I do not spend a lot my time on the net and never forums. I stumbled across this and felt the necessity to make a post As you guys can see from looking at the registration information we did not take over FatMat until September 2007, this customer was not our customer, we have no records of any past customers. When we formed the Corporation we did so not assuming any debt of the previous owners We are addressing these on a case by case basis and as a sales policy helped out. And for the record. I have never contacted Rudy/Don and never been involved in FatMat or any other sound deadening company before September. You all probably know that by now.

How about sounddeadener.com? The last update to that domain name registration was October 2005 so you have owned that site at least since then.

Ok next topic is the content of FatMat. To be honest I can not say much about this. But FatMat is a rubberized mastic material. It is not Butyl and I had no idea that was on the new site. Our web designer has taken that off the site and those claims will not be made. Basically when the new site was designed our designer transferred most content from the former site. I never realized that the previous owners even claimed this, but would like to thank you for pointing that out and would like you to know once again that the content has been and is being updated.

Fair enough and the reference IS gone. That will also need to be carried through to the people who answer the phone since less than a month ago a caller was told that FatMat was butyl. Can you not say more because you don't know or because to do so would confirm something many of us already believe?

Another point, "rubberized mastic" has a long history of misuse in a sound deadening context. The distinction is made between asphalt and butyl. People mistake rubber for butyl. Even if it is unintentional, "rubberized mastic" is misleading. Rubberized asphalt is the only accurate description in this context. I'd prefer SBS or SBR asphalt, whichever is true, since that is more accurate still, but sound deadener sellers very seldom do what I suggest.

I am not going to go into detail on this subject to much yet either, but would like you to know that FatMat has 2 butyl products coming aboard within the next month or so. This will give customers a choice between a rubberized mastic and a butyl product. As far as we know we will have the thickest butyl product available in the sound dampening industry. I hope this settles any question anyone has had on the ingredients of FatMat. We also had a meeting with the customer support team and informed them all that FatMat is not butyl, they used the website prior to this to help answer support questions!

Good luck with that.

The next topic I want to cover is if a product does not contain butyl is it any good. Well here you can see the answers for yourself with over 500 praises in a few months.

http://feedback.eBay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dell...edback2&use rid=noise-killers&&flab=FeedbackAsSeller&sspagename=VIP:feedback:2:us&aid=120204256304

This speaks to good customer service and I commend you for that. I'm sure you will agree that relative quality comparisons are impossible for most consumers and must be ignored. Any concerns about durability can't be addressed in the short time frame of eBay feedback. All that can be deduced from the feedback is that you ship quickly. That is an improvement, certainly.

I know that Rudy has a thing he thinks he has to prove to the entire world that if the mat isn't butyl it's no good, but Rudy is certainly very wrong about this if this is what he believes. You see butyl is better than others in most all areas and we do agree on this, however asphalt and or rubberized mastic are very effective as well and very inexpensive and if they are applied properly than they will not fall off, nor will you be able to pull it off, this applies to it being installed sideways, flat or upside-down. Rudy has a very hard case on his hands here because almost every single sound dampening company sells both products, even dynamat original was asphalt. There is a reason for this and that is because it does work very good, and adheres just as good as butyl. Rudy may say that in time everyone of these customers are going to be mad because sooner or later the mat will fall off, but we certainly cannot defend a sooner or later.

Personalize it if you want, but it is you, not I who is at odds with all of the relevant science. Present a single fact that supports your position and some of us will give it credit. Otherwise just the word, of somebody selling a product, that goes against every other reputable source isn't going to carry much weight.

Asphalt is not viscoelastic, so an important aspect of sound deadening is denied to the users of your product right there. Asphalt's limited effectiveness occurs across a much narrower temperature range than applies for butyl. Basically the only thing asphalt does is add mass to a panel. People may notice that none of your Web sites makes the case that if FatMat sticks and remains stable, it will do nothing more than anything else that adds weight. Your claims are quite a bit more fanciful and extravagant than that.

Beyond effectiveness, toxicity and stability are concerns. You are selling a product designed for exterior application for use in enclosed spaces. Asphalt outgases toxic VOCs. You can claim it has no odor all you want, but that just isn't true. I certainly didn't start that and would have to be a very effective communicator to make people believe that your product smells bad when warm. That tar smell is an indicator of the outgasing I described.

Stability is the more important factor for most users. Here you are going against Grace Construction, a competitor to MFM, the makers of Peel & Seal. These people have done considerable testing and I am much more inclined to give them credence than I am a reseller.

Rubber stabilized asphalt has an initial melting temperature that is higher than what will be encountered in a car under almost all conditions. It would be great if that was the end of the story - Peel & Seal would be a cheap way to add mass to automotive panels and there is some benefit in that. Unfortunately, it does not end there. The rubber used to stabilize the asphalt deteriorates when exposed to temperatures significantly lower than out of the package ratings for the product. This means that in normal use, products like Peel & Seal and FatMat lose their heat tolerance over time. This is exactly why it is very common for an asphalt installation to make it through the first or even second summer, only to fail during the next.

Also Rudy the reason that companies don't want to send you product is because your entire operation is just to odd and can be manipulated so easily, even unintentionally. Suppose your oven doesn't heat evenly, suppose there was a bit of oil on a surface. That is why we have ASTM testing labs, they cost thousands to have products tested yet they also provide accurate and unbiased results. Your operation is just to armature for any company to feel comfortable with. The other issue that I have seen questioned is how does anyone know that your not affiliated with Second Skin, Raamat or someone else? Your word to some may mean something, but to a company like ours you have to understand our view.

I don't blame you for not wanting to send me products. Ironically, a great many companies do. I have NEVER asked before this little nightmare, but I am contacted quite frequently by people who want to get the word out about products they believe in. This single source is never enough to form a conclusion, unless a company has a long history of being completely straight with me.

My testing IS very rudimentary, but has some relative merit. Companies that are proud of their products know they will be fine under those conditions. I'm not trying to make precise rankings, just telling people that if a product has the same specs as Peel & Seal, I see no reason to pay a middle man to stamp cute logos on it when you can just drive to Home Depot and save yourself the markup and shipping? I'd love to know where you see value added in that equation. It is definitely true that sellers whose products can't beat Peel & Seal are reluctant to send samples.

I would love to publish fair tests done to ASTM standards. A few manufacturers have offered to pay for the testing of their products with me acting as the impartial clearinghouse. The problem is, some of your sites have test results that purport to be ASTM E756 compliant, but with no details or attribution. Falsified or at least out of context numbers like these make it impossible for legitimate tests results to be compared fairly. Maybe you should spend a little less time being part of the problem. Four months should have been more than enough time to eliminate the dishonest statements. Since you say you are familiar with ASTM standards, shouldn't we hold you accountable for being behind Web sites that misuse them?

Suggesting that I am a front for the competition has definitely been the last resort of some disreputable sellers. For a while, people who called FatMat were alternately told that I worked for RAAMmat or that I worked for Second Skin. If you look into the posts I've made around the Web, you would also have to assume that I work for Dynamic Control and Cascade too. This would be a miraculous situation where competitors all got together to harm others in the same industry. Might be nice for me if it were true, but it isn't. NOBODY pays for the content in SDS. I've been offered substantial sums of money to sell SDS, but stupidly, I've turned them down. Much better to take abuse than to retire early I guess.

Cascade makes some great products and the upcoming version of SDS will reflect that. Dynamat Xtreme is a very good product, but the company loses big points for continuing to sell Dynamat Original. I can only assume they have a warehouse full of it to get rid of since it is so far inferior to Xtreme. If you have been studying the competition, you would know they have been moving it out of the combination packs and generally downplaying its existence. Your justification for your behavior is going to come apart when they drop it altogether in the near future.

Don/Rudy you have acted very bodily in the past month without knowing the facts. I would suggest that you try and make sure that you stay updated before you start ripping on a company that is bending over backwards to try and satisfy customers, even ones that aren't ours. Being in the industry that we are in we know where most of our competitors get their products, we also know where dynamat gets theirs made. We also know that you did a review on 2 products that are manufactured by the same company and you gave them different results. One last thing that bothers us is that when you did this sound debate you rated FatMat at 50 mil and it was actually only 45 mil, don't you at least have the sophistication of measuring the products thickness? Trust me I am not trying to attack you, but just am curious as to how much effort you actually put in this! If your going to do this showdown you really need to resort to doing all the tests possible and a lot more accurate, I know that it's hard to do in your kitchen, but just be fair Rudy! I seen that you placed an order today, we are going to refund you your money and send you out the FatMat and Rattle Trap you need for your testing, (We can afford it), but we pretty much already know the outcome you have doomed us for, but we are willing to give you a chance, we already know how well FatMat performs. I do understand that the claims that you made are on the old materials, I also understand that you did not realize that FatMat was bought out, but I cannot ignore the fact that you do not take the time to stay up to date on the facts! I

[visitor 3]

wow.. rudy.. and again, you show your arrogance. you do tests IN YOUR KITCHEN. stop acting like a god. you are far from an "expert" on sound deadener. it makes me sad, actually, mark certainly didn't insult you, nor act childish. you are very quick to get "up in arms" about a comment, that was in no way inflammatory. if you cannot handle that.. maybe you should rethink your presence on the net? not every forum is going to "kiss your ass" (as you claim you do not) because of a homemade, relatively worthless test:)

[Mike P. 0]

Steve,

Thanks for the clarification that FatMat is a rubberized mastic. Below is a link from your Galco Sales Inc. site showing the MSDS sheet for Peel & Seal.

http://www.mfmbp.com/pdf/msds/MSDS-SA.pdf

Could you please provide a link to the MSDS sheet for FatMat. Thank you.

Edit- request also sent by email to steve@fatmat.com

Edited January 5, 2008 by Mike P.

[mrogowski 6]

Know what? Your response to Visitor and your long-winded "explanation" to the FatMat rep shows me just how ignorant and unprofessional you are. "Flushing him out" - Why? So you can rip his response apart bit by bit and insult him by picking out spelling errors? That's real good.

If you were so concerned about the improved product, you could have sent an email to the company requesting more information about the improvements stated on their website. Or better yet, called them directly and asked the needed "expert" questions. You then would have received answers first-hand. Hell, you could have even purchased a couple of pieces and tested them, like I mentioned before, and reported about the improvement(s), if any, on your website.

But no, you had to make a mockery out of it on a public website, and call attention to your own arrogance which I and others here see very clearly. Well congratulations, this thread is here to stay, and others will read it in its entirety, and many will draw the same conclusions.

You will get no apology from me, nor anyone else here. And despite the fact it was noted that I am a vendor makes little, if any difference at all. You will notice I came into this thread just like everyone else - threw in a dry wise-crack to lighten the load, ask a question, make a comment - nothing more. Now, if I were a person who 'couldn't take what I dished out' I would have banned your ass and that would have been the end of it. I guess that would be the 'little difference' I made note of earlier.

You don't tolerate pettiness? That's fine. I don't tolerate arrogant self-serving people. That's exactly what this thread has painted you as being. I'm surprised the FatMat guy even responded to your verbal diarrhea. I know I wouldn't have.

Mark

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Personally, I think a lot of people are taking a lot of shit way out of context here. I won't get into the personal shit here, but I don't think Rudy is arrogant at all. In fact, I think many people should be thanking him for taking HIS OWN TIME AND MONEY to help everyone else in the hobby. His tests are not perfect, but I sure don't see anyone else putting any effort in and yet I see people bashing him for his results. I see no arrogance here either. I simply see him posting the information he has found through his own testing. The way I see it, we have no right to tell him he's wrong until we do our own tests.

Remember people, this is the internet and typed speech does not convey the emotion behind it, and some people are not as eloquent with words, so something may not be exactly what you read.

Also realize SteveFatMat has a business to run, and he has to, at all costs, promote his product in a positive way. You can't expect the guy to fix everything overnight. And believe me, if his products does not perform, yet he still insists it is a performer, we won't see him anymore. This has happened way too many times, and these types of commmunities are exactly what we need to weed out the scum. They are also what we need to pass the good word around about the classy guys in the industry.

If Fatmat sucks, so what. . . We all will know. There are other deadeners out there, two which are most commonly used by people throughout the forum land, and both owners are standup guys. We all know this. Perhaps someday, Steve will be added to the list.

IN my eyes, he has earned some respect from me simply by the fact that he is still here, commenting, and not running like a cowering dog.

Go pose a question on the effectiveness of edead at ISUX and see how far that goes.

[Rudeboy 152]

Some of you need to get out more. I'd suggest that all of you that are more concerned with my character than the truth of this matter install FaMat in your cars and then reconvene here in three years to discuss exactly how full of it I am and how well SteveFatMat served the community. Better yet, just ask your member sundownz about it. You've been fed a line and it wasn't by me.

I'm pretty comfortable with the effort I've made. I choose not to take advice on professionalism from a stealth vendor pretending to be a manufacturer. Thanks just the same.

[mrogowski 6]

So why don't you quit whining about how "bad" the product is and test it? Sounds pretty simple to me.

[Rudeboy 152]

Know what? Your response to Visitor and your long-winded "explanation" to the FatMat rep shows me just how ignorant and unprofessional you are. "Flushing him out" - Why? So you can rip his response apart bit by bit and insult him by picking out spelling errors? That's real good.

If you were so concerned about the improved product, you could have sent an email to the company requesting more information about the improvements stated on their website. Or better yet, called them directly and asked the needed "expert" questions. You then would have received answers first-hand. Hell, you could have even purchased a couple of pieces and tested them, like I mentioned before, and reported about the improvement(s), if any, on your website.

But no, you had to make a mockery out of it on a public website, and call attention to your own arrogance which I and others here see very clearly. Well congratulations, this thread is here to stay, and others will read it in its entirety, and many will draw the same conclusions.

You will get no apology from me, nor anyone else here. And despite the fact it was noted that I am a vendor makes little, if any difference at all. You will notice I came into this thread just like everyone else - threw in a dry wise-crack to lighten the load, ask a question, make a comment - nothing more. Now, if I were a person who 'couldn't take what I dished out' I would have banned your ass and that would have been the end of it. I guess that would be the 'little difference' I made note of earlier.

You don't tolerate pettiness? That's fine. I don't tolerate arrogant self-serving people. That's exactly what this thread has painted you as being. I'm surprised the FatMat guy even responded to your verbal diarrhea. I know I wouldn't have.

Mark

Spelling????? That's what this comes down to for you? This used to be a friendly forum where I thought people were looking for knowledge. Do you really think that selling Chinese made geegaws from a prefab store front makes you all that? Good bye and good luck to all but this mouth breathing troll.

[Rudeboy 152]

So why don't you quit whining about how "bad" the product is and test it? Sounds pretty simple to me.

I have moron. All of this chit out of your mouth and you haven't even looked at the site? Geez. Get some FatMat, install it into Mommy's car. She'll give you extra dinner.

[mrogowski 6]

Quote from Noah:

***********************

You're an idiot

nG

***********************

[mrogowski 6]

So why don't you quit whining about how "bad" the product is and test it? Sounds pretty simple to me.

I have moron. All of this chit out of your mouth and you haven't even looked at the site? Geez. Get some FatMat, install it into Mommy's car. She'll give you extra dinner.

I did read it. I did not see any test results of the new FatMat product which I recall you were bitching about. Can you please provide me with a link to your results of it?

[Porchpup 0]

Great...now we have resorted to name calling. This thread is a wealth of information.

One doesn't have to be here long to learn the cliques that exist on this board.

Once you get cross with "The Crowd" everything you do and say can be over analyze and your opinion will be labeled as not worthy.

I think both have valid points and both have the right to be passionate about their cause.

I may come to my own conclusions with the facts/opinions presented but it's not my place to degrade the one I don't agree with.

But of course that's just my opinion.

[Megalomaniac 0]

here is my .02. Since everyone thinks rudy is an "amateur" at testing compared to the fancy testing company then isnt that good too? Shouldnt we get testing from real world environment on the consumer end, like the uneven heating that was referred to earlier? In a vehicle there has to be a ton of uneven heating and factors that come in too play. I think testing shouldnt be done in a controlled environment for the most part. I also think its funny that you would think he worked for Raamat and SS. When arent they competitors against each other(even though they dont show it)? I dont think they would hire him at all because integrity.

What I think it comes down to it is, nobody tested different deadeners and made a site like rudy did and now he tried to throw his .02 out and his .02 was rejected(even if it was the truth or not). I think thats the problem, people seek advice, and when they get answer they dont like they reject it.

[mrray13 30]

this gets back on topic. any post outside of the topic of FatMat will be deleted. Rudy wants to argue with Steve, so be it. but the bickering between everyone else goes to pm.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[mrogowski 6]

Kent, I suggest you close this thread. As you said, if Mr. Rudy wishes to bicker with FatMat it should be taken to personal mail.

m

[Mike P. 0]

Steve,

Thanks for the clarification that FatMat is a rubberized mastic. Below is a link from your Galco Sales Inc. site showing the MSDS sheet for Peel & Seal.

http://www.mfmbp.com/pdf/msds/MSDS-SA.pdf

Could you please provide a link to the MSDS sheet for FatMat. Thank you.

Edit- request also sent by email to steve@fatmat.com

I hope the thread stays open for a bit. I'd like Steve to post the MSDS info for FatMat.

[visitor 3]

Steve,

Thanks for the clarification that FatMat is a rubberized mastic. Below is a link from your Galco Sales Inc. site showing the MSDS sheet for Peel & Seal.

http://www.mfmbp.com/pdf/msds/MSDS-SA.pdf

Could you please provide a link to the MSDS sheet for FatMat. Thank you.

Edit- request also sent by email to steve@fatmat.com

I hope the thread stays open for a bit. I'd like Steve to post the MSDS info for FatMat.

I would very much like that myself:) i wont run fatmat, actualy, im more of a "second skin guy" however, i would like to see the difference. adn rudy, again- you are far from an expert.. i do thank you for the tests you did, however, i take them with the same "grain of salt" as the "12" test session".. good reading, no more, no less. and you act like a 10 year old. is that really needed?

attacking mark based on his products.. very immature:)

Edited January 6, 2008 by visitor

[///M5 2,833]

Quite frankly the rips on Rudy's experience I think are way out of place. He is truly the only one I have discussed methods of testing materials with on a website that has understood the real methods of doing such. Considering that I do acoustic and vibration testing for a living and have access to all of the equipment that anyone would really ever use for this sort of testing to both SAE and ASTM standards I was rather impressed with his knowledge of a not so straightforward science. I do agree that his test methods are home brewed, however, without an investment of at least a quarter million dollars you couldn't really do any better. Simulation inside a simplified environment is also regularly better as you are reducing variables to top it off ALL manufacturers start out with simpler methods than even he is using. Take it from someone has been inside a few different manufacturer's plants, Rudy has as much or more sophistication in his testing than they use.

Lastly on his rips on FatMat, I hope they continue if they are justified. So far, to me the past has more than justified this response but I would also like to see that change. Hopefully Steve is earnest and will fix both the company and the product; however, he has a hell of a long ways to go before I am convinced. I look forward to both their responses and do hope that the personal portion defocuses and discussion continues in a direction pertaining only to the product & company at hand.

[Rudeboy 152]

Quite frankly the rips on Rudy's experience I think are way out of place. He is truly the only one I have discussed methods of testing materials with on a website that has understood the real methods of doing such. Considering that I do acoustic and vibration testing for a living and have access to all of the equipment that anyone would really ever use for this sort of testing to both SAE and ASTM standards I was rather impressed with his knowledge of a not so straightforward science. I do agree that his test methods are home brewed, however, without an investment of at least a quarter million dollars you couldn't really do any better. Simulation inside a simplified environment is also regularly better as you are reducing variables to top it off ALL manufacturers start out with simpler methods than even he is using. Take it from someone has been inside a few different manufacturer's plants, Rudy has as much or more sophistication in his testing than they use.

Lastly on his rips on FatMat, I hope they continue if they are justified. So far, to me the past has more than justified this response but I would also like to see that change. Hopefully Steve is earnest and will fix both the company and the product; however, he has a hell of a long ways to go before I am convinced. I look forward to both their responses and do hope that the personal portion defocuses and discussion continues in a direction pertaining only to the product & company at hand.

Thanks for that. I think you are overstating my capabilities, but I appreciate it. I've all but given up on keeping this on topic, but I'm going to give this one more try. I will endeavor to stay out of the pissing contests.

I'm going to assume that most people aren't familiar with the history of FatMat and so may be more willing to think they deserve the benefit of the doubt more than my statements indicate that I do. There is a long history here and none of it is my doing. All I did was determine that FatMat was asphalt, more than 2 years ago. FatMat's reaction was to add the word butyl to their Web site and start telling people who called that it was butyl. FatMat was not the only seller of asphalt products to take this approach. SteveFatMat has acknowledged this part of it.

Since some feel that I was wrong to answer each of SteveFatMat's points with an equal amount of detail, I'll simplify.and create a concise version of what I consider to be the outstanding issues.

I am concerned that SteveFatMat dates the start of his connection to FatMat at September 2007. This conflicts with this:

This is the whois data for sounddeadener.com. It shows very clearly that the same Galeazzo, Steve who has registered noisekillers.com and fatmat.com has been the registered owner of sounddeadener.com since at least October 24, 2005. Sounddeadener.com has always existed as a sales portal for FatMat. This is at odds with his direct statements.

Describing FatMat as a rubberized mastic is still very imprecise. Even without the word butyl, that description combined with the heat resistance stated on the Web sites of 300

[mrray13 30]

Steve,

Thanks for the clarification that FatMat is a rubberized mastic. Below is a link from your Galco Sales Inc. site showing the MSDS sheet for Peel & Seal.

http://www.mfmbp.com/pdf/msds/MSDS-SA.pdf

Could you please provide a link to the MSDS sheet for FatMat. Thank you.

Edit- request also sent by email to steve@fatmat.com

I hope the thread stays open for a bit. I'd like Steve to post the MSDS info for FatMat.

I would very much like that myself:) i wont run fatmat, actualy, im more of a "second skin guy" however, i would like to see the difference. adn rudy, again- you are far from an expert.. i do thank you for the tests you did, however, i take them with the same "grain of salt" as the "12" test session".. good reading, no more, no less. and you act like a 10 year old. is that really needed?

attacking mark based on his products.. very immature:)

this thread stays open as i want to see what steve has to say myself. but no more attacks on anybody on the personal level, period. anything Rudy has to say to Steve, with proper back up info as he has provided each time, will be allowed. anything else is a no go. you have a problem with Rudy, go to pm, unless you can back up your statements. same for Steve.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Porchpup 0]

this thread stays open as i want to see what steve has to say myself. but no more attacks on anybody on the personal level, period. anything Rudy has to say to Steve, with proper back up info as he has provided each time, will be allowed. anything else is a no go. you have a problem with Rudy, go to pm, unless you can back up your statements. same for Steve.

Excellent Call...

[Rudeboy 152]

Credit where credit is due. FatMat issued a refund today for the product I ordered last week.

-added 2008-01-07 -

I was so tired when I posted this yesterdaythat I didn't notice the pun/irony

Edited January 8, 2008 by Rudy

[mrray13 30]

well, at least steve kept a part of his word. now let's see what happens when you get the product, when you get the product.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Mike P. 0]

Steve,

Thanks for the clarification that FatMat is a rubberized mastic. Below is a link from your Galco Sales Inc. site showing the MSDS sheet for Peel & Seal.

http://www.mfmbp.com/pdf/msds/MSDS-SA.pdf

Could you please provide a link to the MSDS sheet for FatMat. Thank you.

Edit- request also sent by email to steve@fatmat.com

Second request sent to steve@fatmat.com