Bigpete123

aight, I dropped the pods off at the uphostery shop today. I'm not gonna tell you guys how much they're charging me! lol Worth it to me, but not cheap!! I guess I should be working right now, but I'm gonna add the pictures back that used to be in this thread before the side crashed. I'll try to put them in order. You guys know more about car audio than I do, so you should be able to fill in the blanks. My fancy schematic drawn up in MS paint: Front speakers are Focal Polyglass 3-ways, bi-amped (tweets on their own channel). Rears are the matching Focal 4"/tweet combo. Amp is a 500/5, sub is an Infinity Kappa Perfect 10vq via infinite baffle. Amp for sub and front speakers is the JL Audio 500/5, and the rear fill is lightly powered by JL Audio e2150. Head unit is a Nakamichi CD-400, which looks at home in my 1990 Mercedes 300ce. I think that covers the basics. The hole I cut in the rear deck. eek! Sealing the rear deck was a bish cuz I have headrests that run on actuators so that they flop down. I gave up on that and just disconnected the vacuum system to make them stay in the up position. Sorry, I have no trunk pics. It's not done yet anyway. Previous rear-deck setup: Rebuilding the med kit cover so that it doesn't rattle, working on rear speaker enclosures since I had to seal up the holes: Notice the covers I made to seal the trunk hinges (upper left of pic):

I'll try not to take offense to that! lol

sorry guys, no real updates for you this week. I had one of those disapointing weekends at the shop. My goal was to get the uphostery done on my door pods... I tried my best but it started to come out horribly. Lots of wrinkles, etc etc. I was working on my parents' kitchen table and started getting really frustrated. One thing led to another, threw a temper tantrum like a 5 year old. After yelling some obscenities in front of my mother, I decided to take them to an upholstery shop to have the work done by a professional. It's worth the cash to me because I've worked really hard on these enclosures and I'd hate to have them look like arse. So I ran a few wires hear and there and started working on my tweeter pods. So no new pics to share with you guys. See ya

Thanks guys. They are looking more bulky than I wanted them to, but for my first big FG project I'm pretty happy with them. The more I think about it, the more I think I should just spend the cash and take them to an upholstery shop. I already have the vinyl, it would just be labor. And I just had to use this emoticon because it is hilarious:

oh schnap. Looks like we lost most of this thread. I don't have time to recreate this thread, so those of you who've been with me, here's the latest progress. I got all of the bondo and sanding done. Next week, I'll trim out the hole with my router (maybe do a little more sanding/bondo in those areas if necessary), set up the cables in the doors, and god willing, do the upholstery. I'm considering taking my vinyl and enclosures to an upholstery shop just cuz I really want them to turn out right... Pics...

dude, I am extremely concerned about your hearing loss. earplugs aren't even gonna help you here! Be careful, man. Imagine how crappy it would be to no longer be able to hear music AT ALL!! Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!

well, if I were you here's what I would do. In fact, since I'm in the middle of my installation, I'll tell you what I AM going to do. I will use the crossovers on both, but I will set the crossovers on the amp slightly out of the speakers' ranges. In other words, if I have a mid that the manufacturer says can handle 60Hz, I will set the amp's crossover to 50Hz and let the passive crossover do it's job between 50Hz and 60Hz. That way, the amp crossover only filters the more "dangerous" frequencies and allows the passive crossover to operate as designed... I have been trying to figure out my crossover points in another thread under the "Advanced topies / SPL & SQ" forum for the last week or so. I think I was in a similar mindset as you are in- that I wanted to set the dials on my amps and be done with it. Unfortunately, it's a much less concrete process than that. There are certain limits that you can determine on paper, but in the end, it all comes down to what sounds the best... So I'm gonna start with the settings that seem correct on paper, and tune to the ear from there... It seems like the only way to go...

wow, this is interesting. I just learned something new again. So if I sent an unfiltered signal to my passive crossovers, I would be trusting that the manufacturer knew what they were doing... In other words, the slopes are set by the manufacturer to complement the drivers in the system... So what purpose would I have for using my amp's crossovers at all? In fact, wouldn't too agressive of a slope hurt the sound quality/flat frequency response of the system as a whole? I guess if you have a situation like mrray where you run them at high enough volumes that the slopes of the passive crossovers won't be enough to protect the speakers, but assuming I send only the acceptable range of wattage to my components, it shouldn't matter right? This will make my current installation much easier, really.

This post is going to be a little bit technical, but since most of you are more "technical" than I am, I'm sure you can handle it. I need help setting up my amps, and more specifically setting my amps' crossover frequency cutoffs. I understand if nobody wants to take the time to reply, but I'll just throw all of it out there. First, my setup. Some of you have probably seen my installation log (and my sig), but I'll lay it out more specifically here. I will be installing my amps very soon, and need to set all of the dials before I screw them into the amp rack. Amps JL Audio 500/5 (for front speakers and sub) JL Audio e2150 (to drive my rear fill only) Speakers Fronts: Focal 165 V3E's (3 ways that include the 165 v3 6" mid, 100vslim 4" mid, and TN47 tweeter) Rears: 100vslim and TN47 tweeter (same as the ones in the 3-way setup). Sub: Infinity Kappa Perfect 10vq 10" single VC sub, to be run via infinite baffle Now, installation details. You all may be wondering why I have a second amp if I have a 5 channel amp already. I have decided to "tri-amp" my setup... meaning, I will run my sub on one channel, my tweeters on another, and my 4" and 6" drivers on another. The 500/5 splits the channels as follows (all stated in RMS): Sub: 250 watts Rears: 25 watts per channel Fronts: 100 watts per channel Here's a pic to make it easier: So my tweeters will run off of the "rear" channel, my 4" and 6" drivers off of the "front" channel. So let's take it channel-by-channel. Front Channel (for 4" and 6" speakers) I am having a difficult time understanding what the frequency ranges of these speakers are. Focal provided charts with the owners' manual, but I have no idea how to interpret them. They provide the frequency response for the whole 3-way system together, but since I'm gonna be running my tweeters separately, I need to know the low-pass cutoff for the mids... Here is the frequency range of the whole 3-way setup: 55hz - 25khz So obviously, the absolute lowest I would want to set my high pass crossover is 55hz, although I will probably set it higher since that's down in the subwoofer's range. But somewhere in there is the lowpass cutoff for the mids. Unfortunately, I have been unsuccessful in finding the frequency range of the tweeter alone. Here is the chart I was talking about. Maybe you guys know who to interpret it: So, to sum up, my question is: What should I set the high pass and low pass filters at for my mids? Or in other words, where should the bandpass cutoffs be? Luckily, my 500/5 is very smart, and automatically uses the highpass filter of the "rear" channel (i.e. the tweeter channel) and automatically uses it as the lowpass filter for my "front" channel (i.e. the mid channel). I thought that was pretty slick. That way I only need to set one dial for the cuttoff point between the tweeters and the mids. Sub Channel Sub's frequency range: 25hz to 400 hz Since I'm running my sub via infinite baffle, I will use JL Audio's protection circuitry that cuts off frequencies below 30hz using a steep roll-off. My understanding is that sub-30hz frequencies aren't audible to the human ear anyway. My question is this: how do I figure out where I should cut the frequencies off between the sub and the mids? My mids can go down to 55Hz, as I mentioned above, and my sub can go all the way up to 400hz. But I completely understand the concept that just because a speaker can handle a given frequency, it doesn't mean it will sound good doing it. So what's a reasonable range for my sub? Obviously this question is related to my question about the mids, because this plays a role in determining the cut off for them, too. If you've read this far, I really appreciate it. I have the frequency range for my rears, so I'm not going to ask any questions about that. But please help!! It may seem like an obvious thing to some of you, but it doesn't to me!!

Yeah, apparently a friend knows a friend... Since I will also have an Audiocontrol EQS 6 channel EQ, I will have a little more flexibility... I'm sure I'm gonna drive myself nuts with it though...

Yeah, you know I was wondering the same thing. I'm particularly baffled by the fact that the overall specs for the 3-way system say that the overall frequency response is 55hz and up. The chart seems to indicate that it's really only 90Hz... It seems very strange to me. If worse comes to worse and I set my 6" woofers too low, I can just dial it up. I will take your recommendation and reduce the overlap between the sub and midbass. Now that I think about it, that's pretty excessive.

Alright, at the risk of flogging a dead horse, here is what I'm thinking for my frequency cut off points: Subwoofer: 30Hz - 100Hz Midbass/Midrange: 65Hz to 3,000Hz Tweeters: 3,000Hz and up Here are the charts for all three speakers in the 3-way system: Do my cut offs look right when you compare them to these charts and to the knowledge that the 3 way system is good for 55Hz - 20kHz? Thanks!

Wow, that's crazy. I'll just take your word for it, because I can't sort that out in my mind. Electricity/physics are not my thing!! According to my owners' manual for the 500/5, speakers over 4 ohms will cause watts to cut in half everytime you double ohms. Since my tweeters are 8 ohms, I'm correct that the wattage will be 12.5ish, right? I'm pretty excited to get this installation done, obviously. Back to the topic of frequency ranges, I will have access to a spectrum analyzer when everything is installed, but I sure would prefer setting the amps active crossovers before I even install it. I was hoping just to use my 6-ch Audiocontrol EQS unit to tune the system... But it sounds like I'm just gonna have to suck it up and spend the time mounting and unmounting the amp to get it right! Oh well, such is life. Thanks for your input guys, I definitely have learned something new!

Hey ArrizX. I just now saw this thread. You drive a 190e and I drive a 300ce, but they are fairly similar in terms of trunk setup. You have multiple options here. First off, check out my stereo installation thread that is on this forum (if you're the impatient type, start on page 4): Click Here Here is another thread of a 190e infinite baffle installation that had 2 8's in the rear deck. He doesn't talk much about the steps, but it gives you an idea of fitment: Clicky To do an infinite baffle installation, you have to do a lot of work to make sure your trunk is 100% sealed off from the cabin. But you save a lot of trunk space. It's not gonna give you loud boomy bass... it's more of an sound quality installation. Your trunk isn't COMPLETELY sealed, so if you put some big subs in the trunk, you will be able to hear it just fine. This is what Denim did in his 300ce. So the gas tank in the trunk isn't the end of the world, but it definitely creates a lot more work for you... Also note that you can run cables into the trunk very easily. Take the trim panels out of your trunk and poke around. Take your rear seats out, too. You'll see what you need to do. Good luck, buddy. Let me know if you have any questions. Everyone here is very knowledgeable, as opposed to some of the more popular car audio forums where people just want to know the quickest way to shatter your windows with loud bass.

Wow, I didn't realize that. But first let me make sure I understand what you mean. For example. If I send 100 watts of pink noise to a crossover, assuming that the crossover doesn't sap any power (just for illustration purposes), and assuming that the two drivers connected to the crossovers have no frequency overlap, both speakers would receive 100 watts each? Is this what you are saying? If so, that's fascinating. Intuitively to me, I would think that the two drivers would split the power 50/50. Am I completely misunderstanding you? Does this mean you agree with my plan? i.e. having the 4" and 6" drivers on the front 100 watt channels and the tweeters on the rear 25 watt channels? Thanks for your help, Paul!!

cool, thanks for chiming in, man. So at the risk of sounding like a huge idiot, I'm assuming MB=midbass and MR=midrange? no? I figured that this would be more of a "tuning to the ear" sort of thing. Unfortunately, I cannot mount my amps and adjust them while they're mounted. So I guess I'll just have to wait to install my amp setup until I have all of my speakers installed. I hate the feeling of my trunk being all messy, but such is life. ha ha Thanks. I just don't want to damage my tweeters. I sure wish Focal would publish the frequency ranges of each driver within the 3-way system...

anybody? :)

ha ha, I love how this forum automatically alters explatives... ha ha btw, did you really do 14 layers, or are you exaggerating? And in terms of pourous stuff within the enclosure, if it's sealed, does it really matter? I guess since most car audio speakers aren't designed to have enclosures, it's best to simulate that by creating as much airspace as possible, right? Is there a way for me to calculate the optimal airspace for a mid range speaker? Or does it not matter at all?

Perfect. Does anybody have opinions on Poly fill?

Cool, thanks man. There are a number of curves in it, so I'm not too worried about that. I guess there are a few flat areas, but nothing too big. I might have enough time to put two more layers on after work tomorrow... I'm not sure. I plan on building every thing else out of .25" MDF, so once I finish the molds, I won't be using any more FG on them. So maybe I'll just do all of the fiberglass work while they're still in the car... How many layers would you recommend for these? I'm only putting a 4" speaker and a tweeter in each enclosure, so I can't imagine I'd need to do any more than 3 layers, right? And what do you guys think about poly fill? I've heard of people using it in kicks, but how do you know how much air space your mids need? Thanks for your help.

Hey guys, quick question. How many layers of fiberglass should I put on before I pull the molds out of the car? These are for my rear speakers in the rear dash. I know that warping is an issue, and I also don't want to have them crack when I try to pop them out. I have done 1 layer, and will do another one tomorrow. the question is just whether I need to put more down before I try and remove them. Note that they will be sitting in my shop for like 2 weeks before I have time to work on them again... so that might factor into the whole warping discussion. thanks! Pics soon.

yeah, those hinge covers were actually kind of a PITA. I thought I got them right the first time, but then I tried to fit the deck back over them and realized they were a little too tall. So I whipped out the belt sander and took off a good amount of material on one of the top corners. I also needed to cut holes in the rear deck (the interior trim peice) to get them to fit. Those holes will be covered by the fiberglass rear speaker enclosures. Now they just barely fit, and it takes a bit of finagling (sp?) to get the deck back on since the glue made them slightly taller. Then there was the problem of properly sealing them. I could only get to two of the four sides of the things easily. So it took me a long time to put caulk on the end of a stick and surgically lay a bead of it along the sides. Since visibility is essentially zero, I'll never no if I got it completely right. Oh well, nobody's perfect- I can only do my best . I have at least mostly sealed the trunk up, since the doors and the trunk make the sub jump when I shut them. Actually, my doors and trunk are a bit harder to close now. So these are good signs, like I said! It's really rewarding to feel like I'm actually getting somewhere. I have probably spent 75% of the total project hours getting to this point, but there are very few visible sign of my work. But now it's getting rewarding!

Thanks man. Although my coupe is somewhat rare, it's not as rare or as collectable as an M5. I wouldn't recommend hacking your car apart like I did! lol it might hurt the resale value and would make it completely unappealing to a potential collector! My car is only worth about $4k (it's in fantastic shape, but oh well). So I decided to take the risk.