DarkTinman

Alright, so the verdict is that it's Grade B plywood. Worth double stacking it on the inside or no? EDIT: And what about fiberglass? Still think it's overkill or no?

So now what? Are you going to contact us back or are we in the dark about whats going to happen next? I'm glad you got it but it doesn't help anything

Oh okay. Yeah sorry i meant void free. So even though the MDF will be weakened by using the fiberglass you recommend lining the inside with MDF and then using fiberglass? Or are you saying don't use fiberglass and just line the inside with MDF? I honestly wish i knew how much the plywood we bought was or what is was actually. I will ask my build partner and ask him what we got because i know he would know. So if we did buy a higher quality of plywood, it would be ideal to double layer it and add fiberglass?

So fiberglass doesn't help with strength at all? Yeah honestly i don't think i am using VIOD free plywood. At all. I may be very well be using "crap" plywood at home depot. Because this maybe a HUGE problem, what do you recommend on buying for the inside? To help with bracing and layering? What exactly is the good kind of plywood other then VOID?

Haha that last one was pretty funny!

No just one box. I saw a lot of people use fiberglass on MDF and i thought that (and told) because the fiberglass resin wasn't exactly water and was more of a "paste" that the MDF doesn't actually get weaker. The only reason i wanted to or even thought about it was because people have been at me telling me that MDF is the only good wood to sound deaden and the fact that i didn't use any and my box is super thin got me bashed on. I am not trying to cover costs, i rather do it right the first time and not have to go back in and fix areas where i messed up. So your saying use another 3/4 plywood and then hadd the fiberglass? That will keep the strength (or add to it) while also deadening? Should i add the new layer of plywood, then brace, then fiberglass?

I totally understand and respect what your saying and where your coming from. But it took 1-2 week to contact anyone 2 months ago, and a whole month to try and get my alternator figured out, actually. A whole month to get a shipping number and ship it out. Beyond that i have no idea

Austin Arredondo 1997 Honda Accord SE

Well, the goal is to be loud obviously and to also have a solid box. I do not want a box that is moving back and forth in my car. I also do not want to lose any airflow to other places other then the port. If you have only one shot at it, I'd brace it and double up. What do you mean? You saw me talking about my box. Is plywood then a layer of MDF inside and bracing. Then through some fiberglass on top of that. What do you think about it?

Probably that would be because I'm working 18-20 hours a day.. Not to be a smart ass but right now, I personally am literally impossible to get ahold of most days.. If you guys need help, Stan is the easiest to get ahold of during the day, ex 202, if he doesn't answer, leave him a voicemail. Kyle, Dave, and I are usually in the back building and shipping most all day so if you need to catch us, before 9:00 is your best bet, or after 5:30. It's 12:30 now, and I'm still at the shop just finishing my day... Rob Oh i understand. But i have called and left a message with everyone's extention i could get and still I got no answer. Like i said in the other thread. I understand you guys are busy, but it would mean a lot of after leaving SEVERAL voice mails on SEVERAL different peoples machines, i could get at least get ONE call back. I know you are busy but i work also, it's hard to even fit a phone call into my days sometimes. But here i am SOL because my daily drivers DC power alt snapped on me.

Yeah, I am waiting for my 1997 Honda accord 270 XP to be fixed. When/have been SOL as my daily driver for the past 2 months. I understand that you guys aren't really to blame for the problems with the alts and that you have been trying to fix them lately. The part that i have a problem with is calling in all the time to get voice mail, leaving my name and number DAILY, and not getting even ONE phone call back. Also, i left voicemails with both of you (Kyle and Rob). It's really frustrating that my calls are ignored and that even though the issue is being resolved, i am not getting any words except now and off and on. I would think when a customer calls that if he doesn't get a hold of someone when he calls, and then he leaves a voicemail, he should get a call back. And plus, that was multiple times too... I know you both are busy but really...?

Yeah but at the same time plywood bends pretty easily. I understand the screws and that makes sense. Also, good point about the bracing and the layering. Very solid points. Would it make sense and be possible to do, plywood box on the outside (3/4) then a layer of 3/4 MDF on the inside of the box, then add bracing, and then fiberglass? That's kinda the idea we had for right now, if that makes no sense or if it's stupid let me know asap lol! P.S. : What exactly happens if there is too much bracing? What happens then? Well, the goal is to be loud obviously and to also have a solid box. I do not want a box that is moving back and forth in my car. I also do not want to lose any airflow to other places other then the port.

Yeah i understand what your saying. That makes sense too but at the same time i don't think i completely understand or am grasping what exactly the "scientific" answer is... Yes, glued, screwed, and clamped together. I tried to explain that exactly but he continued to tell me that no matter how think it is, it won't get any stronger without bracing. Plus, btw, we are talking about plywood, not MDF. Yeah and that makes sense. Does it make a difference if i said that it wasn't MDF we are talking about but plywood? Really? That's another point he made about the less weight. What exactly is gained or loss with layering or not layering?

Ha, do you work for them or something? Either brainwashed or uneducated. It deadens some sure, but only while it is stuck on and what it does do it is not very effective at doing. Your opinion is wrong and not based on any scientific fact or understanding. Just because you think it works does not make it work. Per dollar it is not a good buy and therefore a waste of money.No i don't work for them man. I have used it and had higher numbers + deadening. I have looked at all the different deadeners and the normal FatMat is asphalt but the Rattle Trap is different. I honestly have used Peel and Seal, it all fell off of my doors. Used Fatmat Rattle Trap and nothing fell off. But everyone here is trying to say that Fatmat doesn't work but in reality is cheaper and it works just fine. Your opinion is wrong and not based on any scientific fact. The only thing i have read is that people have talked to other company's and been to the factory and they wouldn't buy it. It works just as good.What part of rubberized compound is NOT butyl don't you understand? Well someone said it's just a play with their words but still. How exactly do you know it's not? This really comes down to your definition of "deadener" and "works". The license plate test doesn't prove your point. Anything that's softer than the plate and the back of the mounting surface will solve that problem - 10 cents worth of CCF or even some chewed gum would be more effective and easier. Decoupling the surfaces is the key here, not vibration damping.Gaining SPL after applying the material is almost certainly the result of sealing air leaks. Again, many things will accomplish the same thing. That's really not "deadening" by any definition. It's possible that you got some panel stiffening in the process. That's an advantage asphalt has, since it isn't a vibration damper, you don't get the offsetting conversion of vibration to heat. You also don't get a reliably durable product that can be counted on to last for several years and may result in a serious mess. If you don't care about that and are happy to address the issues indirectly and inefficiently, I guess it could make sense. None of that supports the idea that it works as a deadener. Listen, to be honest. I am totally willing to be humble and agree with what your saying, both of you. The only problem i have is that all i am being told is that it does this, it doesn't do this. Just a he said vs he said. If you could get me some actual information and backed up science behind this, i will promptly apologize and then buy something else for myself! I am not trying to be ignorant, it would just be nice to have some facts. You know what i mean?

Ha, do you work for them or something? Either brainwashed or uneducated. It deadens some sure, but only while it is stuck on and what it does do it is not very effective at doing. Your opinion is wrong and not based on any scientific fact or understanding. Just because you think it works does not make it work. Per dollar it is not a good buy and therefore a waste of money. No i don't work for them man. I have used it and had higher numbers + deadening. I have looked at all the different deadeners and the normal FatMat is asphalt but the Rattle Trap is different. I honestly have used Peel and Seal, it all fell off of my doors. Used Fatmat Rattle Trap and nothing fell off. But everyone here is trying to say that Fatmat doesn't work but in reality is cheaper and it works just fine. Your opinion is wrong and not based on any scientific fact. The only thing i have read is that people have talked to other company's and been to the factory and they wouldn't buy it. It works just as good.

Have you every compared the two, side by side? What differences do you see that would lead you to believe that one works and the other doesn't? I got into a debate with the new owner of Fatmat a few years ago. It was primarily about the composition of his product. He eventually agreed to remove the claim that Fatmat was butyl based from his Web site. I asked him to explain the difference between Fatmat and Peel & Seal. This should be easy for him to do since his primary business is roofing supplies - he's a dealer for Peel & Seal and other MFM products. He never answered the question. Before you ask, I have handled and tested both at the same time. I couldn't tell the difference. The owner of one brand and distributor of the other wouldn't say what the differences were. What do you know that neither of us could figure out? The only difference i saw is that the Fatmat RattleTrap i used didn't fall off. Where as the Peel and Seal ended up falling off in 2 day or so. I have also heard the same thing from other people. That's the only difference. If by working you mean they are a good underlayer for shingles, sure, but definitely not as a deadener in a car. I haven't used Fatmat, but I have done some consulting with the engineering director at the facility where its made which IMO is enough to know not to use them. For this application it is DEFINITELY a waste of money. It actually does work as a deadener. I have even tested it with a license plate and you can tell the difference. Same with using it in a trunk. That's cool, but that's your opinion. But IMO it think it's good enough. So maybe you should change it to; "For this application, in my opinion, it is DEFINITELY a waste of money."

Are you serious? Dude... How long will all those casting take to get them? Like another 1-2 months!? My daily driver is toast and my stock one is broken because i wasn't expecting for my DC power one to break on me...

Good question. I have no idea

From Fatmat: An important consideration in the sound dampening of automobiles, boats, homes, computers and buildings is of course selecting the correct products that will be most effective in your application. Here you find the product that started it all for us, FatMat. Our 50 mil nominal rubberized compound is covered with a shiny protective aluminum top as well as a waxed paper release bottom it's exactly what your looking for in order to stop those nasty rattles, eliminate road and outside noise, insulate your vehicle and dramatically improve the sound of your car audio stereo system. So it's not asphalt, just saying.Rubberized compound compound is a euphemism used to mislead:Coated or treated with rubberRubber compounds are added to all products like these to stabilize the asphalt. These compounds break down quite quickly which is one of the most common reasons for failure. If you don't have the balls to admit that you're selling asphalt, you misdirect. You can sprinkle sugar on feces and say it contains sugar - which they did, but you can't say it doesn't contain shit - which you did. Thanks for the insult! That's cool! Anyways, i haven't had a problem with it and i know people who have used it on the roof and the doors and they haven't had problems with it. Fatmat works, Peel n Seal doesn't. Not a waste of money but it is a good deal. Unless you have used it you can't say that it's a waste of money

Okay sorry, and i missed one lol! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz9c1xBMB0M

Oh and!! Shout out to J00bles aka Derek for this one! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNVo0HQSGQM

You have inspired me. Let me help you bump this thread!

From Fatmat: An important consideration in the sound dampening of automobiles, boats, homes, computers and buildings is of course selecting the correct products that will be most effective in your application. Here you find the product that started it all for us, FatMat. Our 50 mil nominal rubberized compound is covered with a shiny protective aluminum top as well as a waxed paper release bottom it's exactly what your looking for in order to stop those nasty rattles, eliminate road and outside noise, insulate your vehicle and dramatically improve the sound of your car audio stereo system. So it's not asphalt, just saying.

Well they gave me a number (just for my alt) to ship it in with and then they get their casting next week too

Yep. That about sums it up.