sundownz

Yes it will. I will also have "stacking" spiders of the same type as the NS v.1 / v.2 available -- those are more SPL oriented and we can adjust the stiffness to much higher levels than any of our normal "pack" spiders.

First video of the X-18 up. I've noticed some confusion about these testing videos; all of the drivers we test exhibit a similar sound at very high travel -- bit of a "whopping" sound is the best way to describe it. It's a combination of BL distortion (as we always push drivers well past linearity) , some mechanical (as drivers are a little noisy at high throw when not in boxes) , and also the camera mic itself doesn't do so well when that close to a driver creating that amplitude of sound.

The motor isn't so small ; it has a 66mm magnet stack and a bump-out for around 50mm of x-mech and is 190mm in diameter. There is no good reason to use the triple joint or the surround as a brake when these parts are now available -- so yes, it is going to be quite advantageous in terms of reliability and extending usable throw past where previous frames and parts allowed either for dynamics or SPL competition usage. Must just be the picture making the motor look small then. lol I certienly meant nothing negative with my question. I am defeinity looking forward to getting my hands on some Zv4 18"s for the PT. I have about 6,000w per subs waiting for them. Compared to the new massive frames they do look a bit small

The motor isn't so small ; it has a 66mm magnet stack and a bump-out for around 50mm of x-mech and is 190mm in diameter. There is no good reason to use the triple joint or the surround as a brake when these parts are now available -- so yes, it is going to be quite advantageous in terms of reliability and extending usable throw past where previous frames and parts allowed either for dynamics or SPL competition usage.

Our prior unit had extensive supplier issues to the point where we've just had to write off all of that work and tooling. In any event... I decided to re-visit the X-8 idea and base it on our SA-8 v.2 frame tooling. The first challenge was to make a GREAT spider for a 2.5" coil on an 8" woofer... which is difficult and we used extensive software optimization before tooling. Fortunately our basket allows a spider about 10mm wider than pretty much all other 8" frames out there. Since the spider is the main challenger we had that tooled first and then built up a test bed to test with : * Former was too tall / big in diameter for the SA-8 dust cap to work so I had to use an SA-12 dust cap; which came all the way out to glue onto the surround edge. * SA-12 Motor * We had an adapter machined to mount the motor; I decided to have some extras made for some brave DIY folks that may want to make a similar project. * There is the beastly new spider tooling -- this thing worked great ! I was able to test the X-8 spider with an SA-12 motor / coil and SA-8 v.2 cone and surround. The X-8 will have it's own unique motor, cone, and surround for production. Those parts aren't done yet and I wanted to test the spider so we built it like this for now I am very pleased with the spiders excursion capacity and linearity. I will get some Klippel measurements done on it soon as well to verify... my "push the cone Klippel" indicates that the spider has a very linear compliance to it for quite a bit of travel in both directions -- anxious to see the actual plots All of the computer optimization on this spider definitely paid off with the result.

Once I get it in a box I will get some music videos -- our QC test track doesn't really reflect how it will actually sound. We just use it for this type of test as it has many varying frequencies and is pretty hard on any driver.

The new frames use our tooled vent spacers -- which have less total open area, yes. This is not a mistake and is not less cooling

Just showed up today. Need a bit of tweaking still (they don't have the stiffer surround on them yet, etc) but at least we have the first looks at them and our new terminal blocks too :thumbsup: * Z v.4 12 on the left and X-12 on the right. * Z v.4 12 on the left and X-12 on the right. * New terminal blocks ! * Z style spider -- these will feature one fewer layer than the Z models. Coil is also lighter on these but overall FS should be right at or slightly below the Z counterparts in stock format. * Essentially looks like a "mini-Z" style motor... 190mm magnet vs. 220mm on the Z series / 66mm tall stack vs. 75mm tall stack / thinner steel / less expensive round wire coil vs. flat wire in the Z, etc, etc.

Ran some specs on this one too : Re : 3.82 ohms Fs : 25.32 Hz Qes : 0.37 Qms : 5.31 Qts : 0.35 Le : 4.28 mH Vas : 64.03 L BL : 27.56 NA Mms : 466 g Cms : 84 uM/N Sens : 86.19 dB BL^2/RE : 198.68 Box Models : 3 cubes @ 30 Hz ported = F3 of 25 Hz fairly flat 4 cubes @ 35 Hz = F3 of 28 Hz / peak of ~5 dB around tuning 2 cubes sealed = F3 of 50 Hz / Qtc = 0.530 I may try one of these puppies sealed in my ride Of course all subject to final production spec -- but this shouldn't be too far off by the time we use the stock black spider and stiffer surround.

There is a very large spider to surround distance -- that keeps it very stable. Plus the revised stiff surround has a great deal of lateral stability. This one was made with the soft surround but I don't anticipate any rocking either due to the first point

Big chunk of these are reserved to go out to international accounts; so if you'd like to get in on the first run act as soon as you can

Planning to run this setup for nSPL Finals this weekend... needed to stay under 5000 watts on the nSPL clamp meters. On my meter it clamped exactly 4000 watts last night which should be 4700-5000 on their clamps. Tuning is in the high 30s and peaks at 47 Hz... tuned to 30 Hz and also peaking at 47 Hz it was about 1.8 dB quieter but still not bad at all, IMO. I plan to try cutting the ports down a bit more to see if I can get a tad more from it on the meter... may or may not get that done before the Finals event. Best score with just me in the Jeep was 153.8 and with Nick from Stereo Integrity in it as well we got 154.0 dB -- sealed on the dash. * One SAZ-4500D chilling out on my amp rack. Running at 0.25 ohms for burps -- re-wires to 1 ohm for daily. * 3x 6" Aero-Ports... box is a hair over 6 cubes with my shortened ports. Almost exactly 6 cubes with full length ports. Team Sundown Derrick build this box for me. * One NSB-G3100 in this corner. * Added an XS Power D3100 this morning... score did not increase but my voltage doesn't drop as bad on burps and I'll be able to play music longer of course! * Standard DEKA starting battery. * External voltage regulator. * Excessive Amperage 225-amp alternator. Have been running this for about 2 years now.

Just unloaded them after lunch; we'll start shipping pre-orders tomorrow. I am really pleased with how they turned out. I wanted to see them before starting more production -- and we sold about 75% of what we got -- so there will be a period of out-of-stock on them; but we should have steady stock starting after the 2nd run !

We got them in. I'll get up some pics soon and should start shipping tomorrow.

http://www.caraudioc...-mid-level.html ** This thread tracks the development process ** As with any pre-order delivery times are an ETA (estimated time of arrival) and are not a guarantee of the delivery date. DO NOT ORDER if you are not okay with possible delays on the delivery. That being said the ETA is middle of November 2012 on these. ---------- Pre-Order Price : $155 Regular Price : $199 Pricing is shipped in continental 48 states. Contact us for a SH quote to AK or HI. !!! THIS IS FOR USA ONLY !!! To order get in touch with your favorite local or online dealer or send a Paypal in to us at sundownz@sundownaudio.com YOU MUST INCLUDE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. If these are both not included your payment will be refunded. ---------- * Mids ready with frames and shims for assembly * Chromed back plate with logo etched in * Going down the line * Back of box has mid and tweeter measurements, response graphs, and midrange T/S specs * Front of box has feature highlights (yes I know I have an error on there -- too late to catch it!) * Tweeters ready to roll ---------- Dimensions : ---------- I will have some more pictures coming up soon as well as everything completely wraps up at the factory; currently just awaiting final packing and pick-up by my freight company. ---------- The 60-watts PER SIDE rating is designed around 8-hours continuous testing at 20-20,000 Hz with the entire set connected (mid, tweeter, and crossover) -- with any smart usage of an HPF filter the power handling goes up quite a bit. Keep in mind that a power rating is only as good as the conditions it was made under : It takes 4x the excursion for each octave DOWN in response to maintain the same output level -- so assuming a brick wall HPF at 40 hz that is 4x less excursion right there than our rated power level With a decent x-over anywhere from 50-80 Hz you are on track to run significantly more power. I run two channels of a 200.4 on my set crossed at 50 Hz @ 24 dB -- any sane level of listening is just fine. Most folks will likely be crossing over @ 80 Hz and 100+ watts per side is no issue at all for *almost* any user. Also note MOST ratings you see on components are BOTH sides combined. I don't feel like that is an honest way to rate a set at all so I've done it differently. I also do not want to confuse everyone with an "official" conditional rating of "100-watts... well if you use X crossover at X dB per octave" -- so an absolutely worst case rating has been applied.

Due to the Holiday delay we expect these Monday to Tuesday.

The 10" is done and drying; should be able to play tomorrow. I'll be a tad more careful this time *laughs* Of course I should be safe with the 8 3/8" spider vs. the 9 1/4" on the 12" model as I shouldn't be able to reach quite the level of throw! This is the first 10" woofer with 3" coil that I've built that I didn't hate every second of... gives me a good feeling and I cannot wait to test it ! * Left to right : Z v.4 10 / Z v.4 12 / Z v.3 12

Despite the damaged coil I was able to pull specs then estimate where they would rest with a fully functional coil (as I have data from the 10" model to fill in the blanks that are not size dependent) -- 12" D1 model. Re : 1.65 series Fs : ~25.75 Hz Qes : ~0.296 Qms : ~4.16 Qts : ~0.276 Le : ~1.8 mH Sd : 457 cm^2 BL : ~17.23 Mms : 329 g Cms : 115 uM/N Sens : ~85.01 dB BL^2/ RE : ~180 (D1 coils are usually a hair higher than D2; but for estimation purposes I used the same as the D2 coil) So these are estimated based on the known specs and specs from the 10" D2 -- gives us a good idea. As I mentioned in the 10" thread I may need to add more stiffness into the surround to get the specs to lay where I want them -- realistically I'd like to see the Fs into the low to mid 30s on the stock format driver. You will note that the CMS is higher than the 10" model as the spiders and surrounds get a bit softer as their size increases; thus we have an even LOWER Q figure on a 12" than we do on a 10" model -- on the Z v.3 the surrounds compensated by also getting stiffer as size increased (the 18" Z v.3surround is very stiff) -- so I'll have to do the same on the new surrounds. So more testing will be getting done with some surround tweaks

Prototype motor paired with new 12" frame, 9.25" spider (what we use on Z v.3 18s now), and the new cone / surround. I literally JUST finished it so I cannot play it until tomorrow. That being said... it won't QUITE be able to use ALL of the clearance we have -- and that is great -- should be INCREDIBLY rugged and hard to damage :thumbsup: For those not current on all of these parts -- they are ALL prototype parts. They are not in production yet. Production parts will start appearing 1Q 2013.

I may put a bit more stiffness into the surrounds as well -- and for the low FS junkies I'll still be able to put on a spider from the "X" line which is one layer fewer than a "Z" line spider. This way the FS won't change so drastically in "stock" format but we can still tailor it in either direction (it would still be lower than the v.3 models, of course, just not such a HUGE change).

Pricing isn't yet available.

Got the 10" Z v.4 motor charged up to run specs on it -- so here we are (D2 coil) : RE : 3.42 (series) Fs : 29.4 Hz Qes : 0.324 Qms : 4.61 Qts : 0.302 Le : 3.68 mH Sd : 366 cm^2 BL : 24.85 NA Mms : 316 g Cms : 92.41 uM/N Sens : 83.16 dB - 1w/1m BL^2/RE : 180.56 For production the top plate ID is going to move OUT a bit (wider gap) to prevent damage in the case of excessive excursion (which is how I damaged the 12" prototype) -- this will reduce BL by a small margin but the Z v.4 motor force factor is still in excess of the v.3 version so it's a non-issue All in all I think these specs are on target with what customers want -- compared to the v.3 we have : 1) Lower FS in stock format 2) Higher motor force 3) Higher thermal power handling (v.3 10/12 use a shorter coil than 15/18 -- v.4 use the same 15/18 coil in all sizes) 4) Higher mechanical power handling and thus more forgiveness of larger boxes (current 10s are very picky on small boxes) So I think folks will be extremely pleased when these hit the market.

Yes that is fine.

That glue is not designed for porous surfaces; also I don't suggest using accelerator on the foam. A "soft" glue like Amazing Goop or E6000 is what I'd suggest.