sundownz

I know alot of folks have a hard time understanding my explanation of this all in text format; so lets visualize it based on some Klippel results. I had the first Z v.4 15" prototype Klippel tested; as explained on the image the production model will test even better since I did a hyper-extended pole compared to the standard height pole extension on the sample but I haven't had a chance to actually re-do the test -- but I have verified in FEA and via doing similar comparisons with Klippel on other drivers with the same changes what the result would be. The SA-12 is a production unit -- and most people know how an SA-12 sounds; and most people love it. It has what I would consider a good but "standard" suspension. Notice how dramatic the FS shift is even at 2" p-p travel ? Many people that own an SA tend to push them all the way to 2.25-2.5" or so p-p travel (hard bottom is 2.65" p-p) so there would be even MORE parameter shifting. Even more stand-out is the QTS shift over stroke since it is caused by both BL and CMS shifts. Anyone with a box modeling program handy can tell you what THAT much shift in Fs and Qts will do to the response (VAS also shrinks along with CMS). Now lets move onto the Z v.4 The FS shift at 2" p-p is almost non-existent by comparison. The Klippel tester ran out of steam before pushing the suspension to it's limits. Typically CMS limit is defined as a 50% shift which would be ~0.0875 mm/N on the graph; use your imagination and you can see that is around 4" p-p total travel. Onto the Qts shift -- still MUCH better than the SA-12; and on production with the BL being more symmetrical thanks to the hyper-extended pole you would see more like a range of 28-35% or so here. The reason for this not being as low as the FS shift is that I am not using a "flat BL" topology. If I were to implement something like XBL^2 this shift could be as low as the FS shift over stroke... and I do plan to offer drivers with our new platform AND flat BL at some point. ---------- So, again, anyone with box modelling software can do the experiment themselves and model up what the driver does with a large amount of parameter shift compared to a lack thereof. So hopefully that explains what you are hearing when you hear a new platform driver compared to a more traditional suspension driver. It is simply a LACK of distortion; there is nothing actually missing -- the drivers are not "missing the highs" -- they are just flat over stroke; they are only missing the *artificial* upper-bass spike created by traditional suspensions over stroke. In other words... they just aren't adding something that isn't really there. So the question you have to ask yourself is do you WANT a flat and low distortion response or not ? Be honest. Some people don't like their distortion to be that low... and in general CMS related distortion is 2nd order and sounds relatively pleasing (like tube amps). That being said... the new "SPL" cones will create a CMS curve that looks more like the SA-12 graphs; they will create the traditional sound with the upper-bass spike. When they are available order your driver accordingly to what you like :thumbsup: You can think of the new platform subs with "SPL" cones as a higher displacement version of the Z v.3 woofer -- so if you like those you would like a new platform driver with the "SPL" cone.

The new NS v.3 woofers will have a HUGE number of options. 1) The motor supports two sleeves to configure it's gap size / overall performance. • POLE SLEEVES (these are permanent; only selected when built) : * Copper sleeve – for low inductance / low distortion * Steel sleeve – for higher BL / higher SPL – STOCK SETUP • OUTER GAP SLEEVE (these can be swapped when re-coning the driver) : * 83mm OD – Z v.2 style coils; lowers mass / lowest inductance – for high frequency burps. My next round of Z v.2 coils will have a longer former for use on the new platforms. * 85.2mm OD – Standard coil; VERY long 4-layer flat coil – maximum linear travel / good mix of SPL and day-to-day performance – STOCK SETUP * 86.5mm OD – Equal to NS v.2, Z v.3, Z v.4 Gap – we can use any of those coils or any other 8-layer coil desired. * 92.5mm OD (NO SLEEVE) – I will be carrying a VERY thick coil for maximum BL for this gap… higher inductance and mass so best for low frequency output. I’ll have these in later this year. 2) We will be able to use any spider stiffness level on them… X, Z v.4, or NS v.3 grade stiffness. They are 4, 5, and 6 layers respectively. These are “pack” spiders that come all glued together. We could also vary what diameter spider is used for specialized applications (not common). * I will also have an “SPL Spider” Pack coming out… we can stack them from 1 to 6 layers thick; each one is harder per layer than the packs. * The SPL spiders do not have as flat of a stiffness curve as the packs; so they are superior for SPL applications. * The SPL spiders will come out towards the end of the year. 3) We can also use a Z v.3 style cone on the 12/15/18 models for lower mass if the customer chooses to use one of the shorter coils for SPL. The 10” model will NOT support a v.3 style cone as it's size is not standard. We would combine this with a smaller diameter spider pack to agree with the surround limites. This is a bit of a "budget" SPL cone setup that we can do. 4) I am tooling up a carbon fiber / fiberglass / honeycomb Nomex composite SPL cone (paired with a dust cap of the same material) in 10/12/15/18 sizes. This cone is lighter and stronger than paper – it also features a surround size in between the Z v.3 and v.4 sizing – it is best paired with the new SPL spider packs in their biggest diameter for a given cone size. Due to the reduced cone and surround mass the FS (resonance) of the woofer is increased to perform better for SPL burps. I expect these around the end of the year to early next year if all testing goes well. ----- With all that being said... I will have to work up some sort of spread-sheet for the pricing on these with options. ----- Okay so the MAP will be as follows for stock setup units : 10 - $820 12 - $840 15 - $875 18 - $900 Gap OD sleeves will be available for purchase to change the woofer later on down the line. As mentioned the ID sleeves are permanent so a motor will always be "Low Le" or "High BL" once setup that way. Both sleeves are machined locally in the US and are pretty expensive to make. They do represent a decent chunk of the costs -- but we wanted to have the ultimate flexibility with configuring the NS v.3 so it will continue to be a viable motor for MANY years to come... we could even develop different OD sleeves for it later on down the line

I made a technical post the other day on Facebook regarding some of the design philosophy of the NS v.3 -- figured I would share it over here. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=639014686154006&set=ms.639014606154014.639014626154012.639014656154009.639014686154006.bps.a.528967150492094&type=1&theater We built a set of NS v.3 12s with a smaller 8 3/8" spider pack, stock long 4-layer coil, and a Z v.3 style cone for a customer build requiring them to peak at 50+ Hz -- Fs came in at 47 hz so I am very pleased and they should be awesome. The customer asked about the raw BL figure so I did some explanation for him : Part 1 : "Little tech talk on the specs while I'm at it. As compared to a Z v.3 12" model (as they share the same cone configured this way) and also an NS v.2 12" model : Z v.3 12" : BL^2/RE = 131.8 / MMS (276g) = 0.477 SPL Factor Le = 1.12x RE for 50mm coil length (8-layer) NS v.3 12" SPL : BL^2/RE = 204 / MMS (296g) = 0.69 SPL Factor Le = 1.01x RE for 80mm coil length (4-layer) NS v.2 : BL^2/RE = 201 / MMS (346g) = 0.58 SPL Factor LE = 1.62x RE for 70mm coil length (8-layer) Given the variation in SPL factor assuming all else equal that leaves us with an advantage of 45% to NS v.3 compared to the Z v.3 which is close to 1.5dB gain for burps. Also factor in that the coil is 60% longer and the spider is also over an inch wider and you have the potential for even more output; likely 2.5+ dB in the end. Part of the design philosophy of the NS v.3 is the use of a VERY long coil for very large amounts of x-max -- but in order to keep LE and MMS down a 4-layer was used for the stock configuration. Thanks to the huge motor we can still get BL^2/RE on par with the NS v.2 but with much better MMS and LE figures." Part 2 : "Also... BL in and of itself has essentially no meaning without looking at the RE (DC resistance). So to properly analyze the spec you must consider BL^2/RE (The NS v.3 Dual-1 has a very low DCR so BL alone might look "low" compared to other higher DCR units) -- but this still isn't the entire picture so also look to their relationship to MMS to gather the "SPL Factor" And still yet... if all of that looks good and LE is too high you STILL won't have good SPL performance at higher frequencies as LE works as a 6dB low-pass crossover. With the NS v.3 we are able to get a good mix of ALL of these aspects at the same time." ---------- I am not sure alot of people have realized yet how awesome the NS v.3 Le spec is yet... it is simply on par with the RE with an 80mm long coil. That is lower than the 50mm long coil used on the Z v.3 10 and 12 models... and MUCH lower than the NS v.2 coil that was 70mm long. The cool thing about the NS v.3 is that we could use either of the other coils we compared to in this motor if we wanted to do so. I have sleeves that are perfect for the Z v.3 and NS v.2 coils -- so we aren't limited to JUST this configuration; but I chose it as stock due to it possessing such an excellent mix of Motor Force, Inductance, and Mass characteristics.

From the other night -- left number is dash and right number is kick panel. It's our new SPL project... so far we haven't officially stated what is in it so if you know (shhhhhhhhh) -- but we'll have it at a show soon then, of course, have all the info out there! It's mainly a burp vehicle and the absolute peak is 60 Hz but we have done pretty good numbers in the 40s range as well -- haven't really played lower than that as of yet. We did have it up to a 165.4 as well with a few tweaks.

Little video of magnetizing a "Team Sundown" motor in our machine; with a little more info on what exactly we are doing.

And a video !

Derrick is still working hard on it in the mean-time. Currently 6x Z v.3 15" Dual-1 with stock spiders and NS v.2 coils (pulled from the Yard Sale... these are not optimized for the Terra) on 3x NS-1 v.2 amplifiers. Photo is from the TDH show in Virginia this past weekend; certified 3x dB Drag Score.

NS v.3 15" in action

Quick free air test of the woofer that I magnetized

Aluminum pole sleeve + stock 4-layer coil = LE that is 1/6th of RE =) X-Max varies per coil; but stock long coil is ~40mm one-way linear.

It has nothing to do with our amps specifically.

I have always been a bit SQ fan. Clean and clear sound is what brought me into car audio but I had to make a detour towards output for most of our company history so far in order to meet my customer demands. Of course... that has not stopped me from implementing features for lower distortion in many of our models But now I feel it is time to really gear a product DIRECTLY towards SQ. I've started development on what I consider a true Reference grade component set... one with objective distortion levels up there with the BEST products on the market at any price level. This complete set will be priced under $1,000 from an authorized dealer; how much under that I do not know yet. This set certainly is NOT for everyone but it is what I want to have in my own cars. Nearly every part will be custom tooled... tweeter housing and internals, midrange frame, cone, surround, spider, crossover housing, etc, etc. So this will take some time and effort to accomplish but will be a world class set no question. I was waiting for the time when this sort of tooling was feasible for Sundown as a company to make a product like this. On to the initial renderings... I will only give out limited information until parts start to be physically completed. But I will go ahead and do the usual teaser shots for everyone to think about until then. * Powerful Neo motor with very thick top plate (hint hint)... the surround is a specially tooled until to have identical forward and rearward compliance. The motor features two internal shorting rings and a naturally low inductance already. I will say that this driver does feature double-digit one-way excursion (linear) so will offer very powerful mid-bass. * Very open frame similar to Dynaudio or Scan-Speak and the like but this particular unit will be tooled just for this driver. As this is an SQ unit we opted for a large open pole vent to keep air noise to a minimum. The coil is a fairly large diameter unit for a mid so thermal handling is not a concern. * Specially tuned rear chamber (the shape is for specific acoustic purposes) * The housing mounts similarly to many other high-end tweeters so bears a resemblance to a few but this particular housing will be tooled for the specific internal needs of our tweeter. Higher end tweeters such as this unit have quite a bit going on internally to damp the rear wave and tune the Fs of the unit. ----- This set will be a two-way upon introduction. We may develop another crossover and a dedicated midrange for a three-way setup later on if demand exists. The crossover is also still in development phase... I am working on some neat features for it. I am also considering selling the set "a-la-carte" so you can buy the mid, tweeter, and crossovers all separately to meet your needs. An ETA is NOT yet available.

Pulled specs on the first one from the batch we built w/ Red Spiders + XL Leads. Other than the XL lead wire these are bone stock -- just a bit heavier MMS from the extra giant lead wires but otherwise basically a stock spec. Stock gap spec is 74.5mm steel pole // 85.2mm steel gap OD... coil is ~82.5mm OD and 76.7mm ID leaving a gap of 1.35mm OD and 1.1mm ID. I also offer a pole sleeve of 75.5mm (0.6mm gap) and an OD sleeve of 84.25mm (0.875mm gap) // basically makes the gap very similar to the Z v.2 model (tightest gap we ever offered) -- for guys looking to burp these; that will pair great with the upcoming SPL cones and spiders for a nasty high frequency setup. BL will shoot up quite a bit with those tight sleeves.

Oh okay, sounds good. Thanks Send me an e-mail to summarize the situation with your contact info. jacob@sundownaudio.com

The error is on the factory side; while we QC test each one the staff doesn't put a DMM on every one due to time constraints and the rarity of a mixup. We can exchange them directly.

I pulled the T/S spec today -- notice how low inductance is even with the massive fat coil. That is the pole sleeve in action -- and the NS v.3 also has a magnet ID ring and a pole cap ring... so triple faraday action Yes that is right around 1/2 of the Re in terms of Le.

Thanks guys I am very excited to be offering these in full soon -- production quantity of sleeves should be done in ~10 days. All of the sleeves are machined and then coated at local businesses.

The MAP cost has been changed as well : 10 - $739 12 - $759 15 - $789 18 - $819

Copied from Facebook update this morning : Nightshade v.3 Update : As many of you know the NS v.3 features an "industry first" gap sleeve system -- the gap sleeves are all being machined locally; our machine shop did move their facility during out order so it has taken a bit of extra time. We do expect the sleeves to be done machining within 2 weeks; then we will be having them coated at another local vendor -- at which point we can start building! We are making 5 different gap OD sleeves (so 6 options here... as the fattest coil doesn't use an OD sleeve) and 4 different pole sleeves (Gap ID). That makes about 45 possible gap combinations for the NS v.3 motor! Most customers will simply need the "stock" setup so if you aren't super technical don't worry we make it easy by simply offering the "stock" setup that will work great in most setups.

The v.2 is a re-design -- the parts used are very similar with a revised layout and casing. Reliability has been increased as has the overall foot-print (slimmer but longer... but overall less area taken up). The new layout was based on testing with the v.1 which has definitely increased the reliability.

Second round of prototypes are done at the factory; I have a 3rd round in the works as well for testing comparison purposes :

Some pictures from the factory -- they won't ship out until after CNY but I will post a pre-order once we confirm they are on the way

People may be confused where I am not directly managing the Team any longer. I have had to give up directly doing literally EVERYTHING over the last few years as the company has grown. Have people for shipping, testing, building, most e-mails, invoicing, etc now where it was all me in the beginning

Appreciate that I am in audio for a while still -- I have discussed with several people about my desire to eventually sell the company and start a craft brewery, though. Could be a while, though!