MikeS

The Kenwood's are likely are a little more efficient than the KEF coax, and being a floorstander with a (15?) woofer they probably have a bit more prominent bass. And have a larger sound overall. Whether they have a better sound quality....who knows.....

The KEF's are coaxial, the tweeter is in the center to simulate a point source response. The Kenwoods are big 4-way or a glorified 3 way. One of those drivers in the Kenwood ishould be a midrange, with probably two tweeters. A two or three way speaker is the most standard design......the Japanese made lot's of "Kubuki" speakers from the likes of Sansui, Kenwood, and Pioneer in the late '60's, early '70's. The design is stupid and pointless, it was just marketing BS.

It basically probably means the same thing I suppose, but you want to dampen the unwanted resonances from the vehicle. Nuthin' like the guy with a deck lid that buzzes louder than his stereo.

Yep, you get what you pay for. If you really want 4 speaker surround sound, then the options listed from SVS and the other links listed by RobertJ would be great options. But IMO, you end up with four little bookshelf speakers. I'm not knocking SVS by no means, they make excellent product at reasonable prices. And excellent customer service to boot. I have a pair of SVS 16/46 CS series, they served me well for the last 6-7 years. Do you plan on watching movies more than listening to music? If you'll listen to music more often in this situation, why not build or buy a nice pair of floor standing mains that can get down to 45-40Hz or so? Lash up whatever subwoofer or plate amplifier from 45Hz down. A nice good quality 2 or 3 way pair of loudspeakers with good tonal balance will sound better with a mediocre solid state amplifier, than say a pair of cheap assed loudspeakers with no matter what you power them with. Get a good pair of mains and go from there. There is no shortage of AV receivers on CL.....and even vintage integrated amplifiers, which are more designed for two channel music listening of course. Don't just buy any vintage integrated amp, do a little research first. A audio friend down in NV, missed out on 5 Marantz THX amplifiers a week ago at a high school yardsale thing....he went back this last weekend and picked them up for 250 bucks. He did good there. AV receivers are more catered to processing features, which is required for HT application of course. But they take shortcuts in power supply design, and are a bit generous in their power ratings. You got 5 amplifier circuits in one chassis, powered from a compromised power supply circuit. The cheaper the AV receiver, the worse it is. $1500-2000 would probably the starting range for a good high quality, well designed AV receiver with good rated power. But those cheap mains will still sound like cheap mains, even with a $2000 AV receiver. That's my opinion, your mileage may vary......

A little over a year ago a older good audio friend picked up some B&C 12CXB's off eBay. He kept emailing me saying that he really liked these coaxials, and that I'd better jump on a pair before they were gone. I kinda held out for awhile, because folks tend to change their point of view over a period of time with audio gear. He never did, and kept razzing me to get a pair. He finally worked a deal with the seller for a I can't pass it up kind of deal..... We both have listened to the B&C 12CXT, and liked that coaxial, but both prefer the bit more lively sound of the compression tweeter used with the 12CXB. Older ears I suppose. I mounted and experimented with port tuning in these cabinets I bought from the guy for 10 bucks years and years ago, and have done quite a bit of bracing and other work to them. Even though they are butt ugly......I may stain them real, real dark. I have grill frames for them, and some old vintage cloth. They have been my experimentation enclosures for the last 4-5 years, basically. Last summer, I tried port tuning at around 32Hz or so with one port. It worked ok, and I thought I had decent bass. The lack of bass made the tweeters seem hot, and I was padding them down. I eventually picked up some Klipsch LaScala cabinets, to fix up and check out the W horn bass bin sound. And the B&C's got shoved aside for six months. Three weeks ago I pulled them out again, and listened again. Thin bass......I emailed my audio buddy who had been egging me to tune them higher the whole time. He said I should notice shallow bass with a occasional peak at the vent tuning, and he was right, whayada know.... So I downloaded WinISD and poked around with the graphs. They are a 3.98 foot internal volume box. I went for 50Hz box tuning. WinISD recommends a two foot box tuned around to 60Hz for the flatest response, IIRC. I'm using two ports in each cabinet, three inches diameter, and a little under two inches length. With a sine wave oscillator (600 ohm out with 1K resistor in series) and a VTVM, one cabinet has a fb of 46-47Hz, with the other aty 49-50Hz. Like a fool, I didn't check fs with the drivers when they were out of the cabinets. Dunno why the 3Hz difference, I think driver fs. I have a little over 2.5 pounds of polyfil in each cabinet, and took out almost a half pound to see if the fb would raise on the 46Hz fb cabinet. It didn't do nothing to fb. Response by ear with music and sine wave sweeps seem to indicate that both speakers sound the same and rather hard to tell the difference between the two. Bass response is rather excellent to me now, the tweeters don't seem hot, and I'm running them unpadded. I set the active crossover to my SVS subwoofers at 50Hz. It blends real well this way. They sound fine with good bass without subwoofers, even at low level listening. Stereo imaging is real nice..... Mike

I went and visited another audio buddy up north of here yesterday. He wanted me to listen to his Tannoy system 15 DMT II monitors. They were lashed up to a McIntosh MC275, with a McIntosh SACD player. Excellent sounding speakers. Smooth as butter, imaging from hell, strong tight bass that can get deep as well. I couldn't drag along the B&C 12CXB's to compare, maybe I can con the guy into it someday. Going by aural memory, the Tannoys have a smoother upper midrange and high range. They are tuned to 38Hz, and can get down deeper than my B&C's, which are tuned to the upper 40Hz area.. I expected that, because it is a 15" driver. The Tannoys have larger sound/soundstage, but not by too much compared to the B&C 12CXB coaxial. Imaging is about the same. The B&C sensitivity is right along with the Tannoy, so output levels are the same. My B&C's bass in my scab cabs is not quite as tight, but rather close. It isn't bad for a 12" compared a 15"....... I get good strong deep tight bass, just not quite as deep or as tight as those Tannoy cabinets.......which are really, really well built. Hate the color, however..... So I think I'll try to do some more crossover work and smooth the upper mid and treble response somehow, and do a little more cabinet stiffening and damping work. Good enough for my poverty strickened soul. I'll never afford a Mac MC275 or the SACD player, wish I could.......But I got this ol' ALtec 345A EL34 PP power amplifier slowly getting a full rebuild. Ain't no Mac, but I think it'll be a good sounding amp. The guy had another system with Klipschorns, with another MC275 amplifier, a Alesis studio CD player with a Benchmark DAC. I liked that DAC.....I want one....it had a volume control. I could use about anything for a transport, and input it right to the amp....like a linestage almost. Considering I listen primarily to CD's, that would be a nice option. I wanna DAC with a volume control. I won't swing a Benchmark, they run from $800 used to $1200 new...ouch..... Of course the Altec amp has volume pots. pondering.......

My test gear knowledge is pretty limited at best, but maybe you shorted the amp into the inputs of the scope with no load? From what I've been known to understand, if you want to check a amplifier for power/bandwidth/linearity or whatever, you need a resistive load across the amplifier outputs. With the scope connected to the outputs as well. Doesn't a Class D amplifier use a switching type power supply? Maybe it went into high frequency oscillation and died with the scope as a load?

Thank you very much mister super moderator guy! This next sunday I get to go a visit a guy up north of here who just picked up two pair of Tannoy System 15 DMT II monitor speakers. I would guess they will be hooked up to a McIntosh MC275 (PP with KT88's), with the Mac SACD player. It will give some sort of idea how my B&C's compare to those big monitors. They may be trounced, or they might be rather close. I'll have to go by aural memory, however. Point source imaging, more amp and music friendly than Klipsch, excellent bass.......I can live with this. I do need to build tower cabinets with the drivers more ear level....someday. Maybe I'll build risers for now. Mike

Good lord......I give up.....you'll just have to hit the links.....

I understand that, but it was a air show. There wasn't any enemies..... The time frame would be 2006. Have you watched jet cars at the drags where they kick out tons of smoke, and then they ignite the burner where the smoke stops and then flames appear with big "Booof!" And It'll surge the car forward a bit.....but the guy is hanging on the brakes so he doesn't end up 1500 feet down the track. It was pretty much the same the same thing with the fighter aircraft at the airshow. It sat there and billowed out gray smoke (excess fuel?) with the guy holding the brakes. Then he must more than likely kick on the igniters and lets go of the brakes. The smoke goes away, he starts to boogie, and as soon as he is airborne he goes straight up for 3 miles. Does that make any sort of sense? I'll admit I am a bit touched in the head.......

It's because he's a gearhead....obviously. The guy probably probably cocks around swapping components and tweaking that rig more often than actually sitting down and listening to music. Granted, I would do the same. That is quite the pile of toys...... Josh's speakers are quite the pieces of audio art. But I dunno If I could deal with looking at those monsters every day. With Ale drivers, they probably sound like the bee's knees. But they are just too flamboyant looking for me. And the color doesn't strike me much....what is that...metallic copper? Maybe they need the right decorum and color......painted black with flip-flop purple underneath, installed in a 14th century gothic castle. Nonetheless, I wish I had at least 1/10th of Josh's talents. I do love his amplifier creations.

Audiophiles hate subwoofers....what you need are brilliant pebbles.....place them in certain areas in your car.....you'll need a tice clock as well.....

"If you were on an Air Force base and they were dual engine fighters, they were either F-15s or F-15Es. They were nowhere near the sound barrier, they fly around at about 250kts (around 300MPH) below 18,000ft and they take off much slower than that. I'm guessing that you were at Fairchild?" Right. I was civilian groundskeeping twit there from roughly 1999-2003. They took off in a pair under the typical guidelines/restrictions I would assume. I just happened to be up on bomber alert building behind them at the time, which is a little too close with respect to noise with fighter aircraft on takeoff. One may have not been that bad....two was too loud... With the typical KC135's that would take off, the noise levels were a lot less up on that bomber alert building. Not enough to be a concern at all. I trimmed that area weekly, (along with most of the base) and KC135's are the typical norm. I got caught off-guard with the fighters that week, and learned a lesson in hearing protection. They didn't take-off wide open...or did they? I went to a air show at FAFB about two years back, and they had a pair of the same fighter aircraft. One did a demo where it sat there with the brake on or whatever cranking the thing full blast to where there is gray smoke just chuffing out the ass-end off the thing. Something akin to the jet cars at the drags, but with the option of being able to go straight up in the air for three miles. I don't recall gray death smoke when I was trimming grass at that one time the pair took off, but they didn't have the brakes on either.......I dunno......I remember real loud noise....I wouldn't lie about that... I never heard any sonic booms in the years I worked there. But I do remember sonic booms back when I was a kid in the '70's when the place was a B52 bomber base. They had fighters stationed there back then....I couldn't tell you what type they were, but there is one at Heritage park. I trimmed the grass around the beast. This is back when they used to fire up the air raid sirens every wed at 12:00PM in Spokane. Duck and cover..... Mike

"being an Airforce vet....I know some of the statements you have just made are not true.....it is against AF regs. to break the sound barrier with-in 20 miles of a residential area(bases included)and also they can not do so under 20,000ft....I know F-16's take off at 3/4 throttle.....F-18's(Navy jets) take off at 3/4 throttle also.....I know they are loud and they may seem to be "breaking the sound barrier" but BELIEVE me....they are not, pilots do not want to be grounded for something as stupid as that" Maybe the Air Force regulations were a little different back in 1972, because I recall hearing sonic booms quite often back then. "I highley doubt you will see this at an altitude you can see......without being a pilot yourself. as for the SR-71....they have been retired for 10years....they do not take off at sound barrier breaking speeds.....they have enough fuel to reach their cruising altitude then need to be refueled THEN they take off from the refueling jet(KC-135[the planes I worked on] or a KC-10[guicci boys]).....PS.....taxi ways are for that....taxing, not take off....and I do not EVER recall seeing ANYONE near the ramp when ANY jet was landing or taking off....hell most civies were not even allowed on the pad let alone with in 1000 yards of a plane." Who knows about the SR71, that was just what I was told. Trust me, I was top of the old bomber alert building (which is half covered with grass) when the fighters took off. The base used to be a B52 bomber base, but now is just a KC135 tanker base. The fighters taxied to the end of the runway, (the end of the actual flightline) and then took off when they were cleared. It couldn't have been more than 200 yards behind them. I wasn't on the actual flightline, on was top of the bomber alert building about 20 feet up above them. The bomber alert building is directly behind the end of the flightline about 200 to 250 yards max. Whether they were F16 or F18, I dunno.....but they were dual engine fighters......Tomcats? I know I wasn't no 1000 yards behind them.

B&C 12CXB coaxial in a 3.98 foot cabinet tuned to 46Hz, with 2.75-3 pounds of polyfil.

"oh really.............. then let's talk about what causes that "warm", "enveloping" sound that you tube heads love so much. But yet fight so hard to get rid of in damn near every other piece of equipment" I don't understand the "fight so hard to get rid of it in damn near every other piece of equipment"? I like my speakers with a enveloping sound, a little warm.......but not too warm.....you start dwelling into the bland and boring if too warm. I like accurate and detailed, but not all cold and hard either. Ever owned or built a vacuum tube amp? Single-ended triode? A higher powered push-pull of some sort? Single-ended pentode? They may be the most inefficient amplifier circuits, and have more distortion than SS circuits, but with the right speakers, they can have a closer connection when listening to music than solid state amplifiers in my experiences. And it doesn't necesarily have to be warm sounding. But I like a good SS amp as well. I just wish I could afford a nice one. I just don't buy into the sound reinforcement amplifiers for home use. Too cold hard and grainy for home audio. Maybe for subwoofers.... But that's my opinion and preference. That's the beauty of this hobby....everyone has their own preference/tastes. I'll go as far to say the when direct A/B'ing two completely different topology amplifiers side to side with the same speakers, source, and set at the same volume levels, it is rather hard to tell the two apart. When switching back and forth on the fly. A friend and I have done this with a older Mitsubishi power and pre-amp, and a 2A3 Agape stereo SET amp that has left and right volume pots. It wasn't a blind test, but it was hard to tell the differences when switching back and forth. All amplifiers sound the same? I don't think so....you take the two same amplifiers, listen to one for a week (same source, speakers etc...) and then listen to the other for a week. It should easy to tell the differences right off the bat when swapping. Now that's pretty off topic........Now where are those vids of subwoofers doing the chicken...

I took a chance off CL a few months back for some old radio tubes. They had a couple 45's, and 71A's. Bummer only one 71A was strong, the other 71A and 45's had open grids. I did get some strong 6V6, and some interesting globe rectifiers. It wasn't a total bust. I do now have a pair of strong 71A's to try in a SET circuit. A whole whopping 800 millivolts per side.....

Haha...You're a Newbie.....

A 2.5 watt 2A3 triode can sound larger, more open with more bass than a pentode connected EL84 at 4.5 watts, depending on the circuit design of course. Single ended El84 does sound sweet, however.

Old school Japanese Rek-oKut wannabe with a Velvet Touch tonearm, a Japanese clone of a gray tonearm. It uses a Pickering/Stanton 380 cartridge, it's a stereo cart. I've been cocking with the turntable for a day now......it really suprised me how good it sounds connected to a SS integrated amp. It ain't perfect, and has some small issues with hum I need to address. Wish I had tube phono pre-amp. I suppose I better breadboard something up that's simple. I wanna hear it through tube amplifiers, not some weedy assed sounding vintage SS integrated. My LaScalas reject mediocre tier SS vintage amplifiers/receivers. KS Musicmaster Mike

I can't see the point of using passive networks in this day in age of car stereo. Unless it is some sort of minimalist type system with everything powered off one amp I guess. To build passive networks for a front/rear system with subwoofers would seem to cost a small fortune in passive parts I would think. I suppose you could opt for non polar electrolytics and save a few bucks, but those inductors will be spendy. Not to mention all the power loss that passives suck up over active network. Everything being line level means smaller parts. Woofer inductors are a lot of copper...copper ain't cheap no more..... A quality variable active four-way network is a flexible godsend in the car audio enviroment. The active networks that use the 16 pin resistor sockets I may even go as far to say are a bit more flexible. (Like the Audio Control 2XS 95Honda mentions) You can dial in the resistor values pretty much to the exact center frequency you want. I basically have the same sort of 2 way active Audio Control crossover for home audio that uses the resistor sockets to adjust frequency. My slope is at 18db per octave, the Audio Control car 2XS active may be 24db per octave. Slope is something to pay heed to as well. The home active xover has some "Phase Coupled Activator" hokey feature that brings bass out of thin recordings. The PCA feature has it's own inputs and outputs, which I don't use and go straight to the active xover inputs. When I got into my car stereo stint in the late '80's, active crossover networks were way overpriced, even the junk ones. I didn't know enough about passive crossover network design to know what the hell I was doing. I cocked around with it enough to get frustrated.......I finally ponied up for a variable active crossover. It was night and day once I got everything tweaked-in..... Now in the home audio world I tend to favor the minimalist approach with one amp and passive networks.

Looks like the kitchen floor at my new place......with flower wall paper. Lol Orange '70's vinyl deserves a avacodo color refridgerator to make the perfect retro match.....

Neodium magnets must have some pretty good flux density for the sizes used in drivers.

Must be the comm shack judging by the '70's era vinyl flooring.