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ok lets try this again because the designer still wanted to get in on this convo. I may not be the all knowing when it comes to Car Audio but i am a man with 2 degrees. I don't understand that how after you said all those lovely things about the designer and builder of the 4th order in question. How can you still say it sounds bad after not hearing it. I didn't lock the thread. Wouldn't have posted in it again if it was locked. As for my statement, I'll repeat it and stand by it. It is not an opinion that in particular that 4th order BP was not the best use of space, it is not an opinion that the output of that box does not have a smooth response in the frequency domain, the only opinion is the one of "sounding good". If you and your cronies think that is a good sounding box then all I can do is pity you. I stated multiple times in that thread that if the OP likes it good for him, but that sounding good is not its forte. As for why the thread was locked, it is rather obvious. Troll central without any information to support any claims. If the box designer wants to discuss his design that is more than fine, but obviously from the posts on FLSPL that isn't the case either. Even funnier considering the "designer" had to start out with the same exact assumptions that I do. His led him to thinking it would sound good and mine that it won't. That should really be the only discussion here. I said his math was confused, albeit potentially based on misdirection from Malibu and not due to his own understanding. So two choices. Either his math is confused or he was misled and made something that isn't optimal for the goals at hand. "Good enough" perhaps for the OP perhaps, but his understanding of anything audio is obviously very small. Lastly, feel free to post in here as much as you like but keep the emotional bullshit out of the Ihop. This is for off topic posts. If you feel you need to discuss this, please feel free to make a thread but take time and re-read it to make sure that it isn't emotional banter and actually has a point and a reason for discussion otherwise it won't exist either. Trolling posts will not be tolerated but any and all logical discussions are encouraged. I'll give you a hint, basing something in science instead of subjectivity would help a ton. Your still telling me that all these people involved with Car Audio who have heard the car are wrong and your right regardless. The designer went off his experience as a designer/builder. We know what SQ is were not oblivious to the fact. Showing a graph compared to actual results. You tell me why the 4th was wrong i want to know in detail. Because some very established vets in this game has heard this car and are amazed. As for the original statement you also said.. "If you like one note wonders. Unless those drivers model REALLY strange that is." "Umm, not really. Look at the response above. It will be loud, but far from good. " based on a graph from Honda, "No, they won't sound similar at all. Generically speaking, the ported box will be just as loud but have a much flatter frequency response. The BP you have was "designed" to be all peak and no response. You can do the same in the ported but you don't give up as much. For getting loud and low 4th order BP are rarely if ever the solution. " Wow is this just wrong ever heard of Noisy Cricket?? Middleweight BB Champ Inac Champ and 49.9 World Champ and points champ getting nasty doing really close to 60's daily from the same people. 4th order..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xgb7A2-IqUQ&feature=player_embedded "FL is the king state of idiotic installs.... Your definition of well and mine are different. WAY different." You took a shot at Florida.... "Close. They knew enough to really screw it up, but not enough to fix it. Physics Theories are not idiotic and not defeat-able. As I said before, I hope it does what YOU want it to as that is all that matters." Theories are defeat-able and don't apply to real world variables. I study theories all day long in my diff electronics classes. they may be close but never the"uniform standard" by wich all things apply. "Definitely the state that leads in that regard. All the idiots running as many bullet tweeters as mids, now that's LOL. Frequency response seems to be lost there in favor of one note wonders. 8 out of 10 people that come onto here with hair brained ideas are from Florida, pretty commonly known. Nothing in the water there, just a following of someone who knows not of what they do." well no one i know uses super-tweets for "mids" and again you took a shot at people that live in FL that are on the CA scene. Florida must be doing something right for some of the bigger CA shows in the country to come here. "Some of the loudest builds doesn't mean jack if the enclosure is based on rule of thumbs or in other words luck. There is a science behind building boxes and when it isn't used the results won't follow. I am not implying they didn't use any, they may have chosen to build a box that is the size of a standard ported, has a peak that is no higher, has a poor frequency response, but farts one note. From what I have seen in FL that may make sense as a desirable feature. I just don't get it. ? what evidence do you have to support this? I know many people that have a wide range and not one note wonders. Its not how we roll. " Actually what isn't funny is how keyboard commando's who don't understand science at all think they know more than people who design speakers and drivers. If you don't believe me then why not argue exactly how it is different from a scientific perspective. Anyone who's personal experience you trust should EASILY be able to do this for a simple 4th order bandpass box. They are not difficult to design. Plenty of free software available on the internet that doesn't lie. Sounds like you've already brainwashed yourself into believing hype that doesn't work nor is it scientifically even reasonable. Obviously you are also the type that succumbs to promises made on weight loss programs, muscle building drinks, diet pills, and so on. Snake oil doesn't work for anything good in audio, you should stop subscribing to it. Really simple to stop, just ask why. If they can't answer and have some semblance of math behind their answer they don't know and are guessing or following rules of thumb. One thing I can promise you as well, there are NO rules of thumb that always work in audio. NONE." By your own admittance no rule of thumb works i believe this time it was yours.. As for the bolded i have to lol at using programs over 15 years experience of building/designing enclosures. The software will never be as accurate as a person whose built/designed. "How can you design a box and NOT know what it is going to do? If you did, then I would say that isn't a design. You really shouldn't defend what you don't understand yourself." Again you did not design this box but you said it was wrong in every aspect and a one note wonder. Which its is very very far from.. "Except yours is the opinion and mine is fact. No way around that one. I won't stop as it will allow others who read the thread to be misinformed, so if you keep trying to state that your subjective opinion is science I will continue to call you out on it. " The car is not a one note wonder as you so intensely repeated before. And your telling others that what you say is gold... You keep yelling Physics cant be beat... if thats true why doesn't everyone run sealed enclosures?? In theory they are the best hands down... But are hardly used. My overall point is you sit and say without a doubt having not heard it or had one hand in its design or build tell people its gonna fail. It did not. So im hoping this wont get emotional and the Builder/designer can have his say also in wich he already asked you questions you refused to answer and retort with more questions.. Im not here to hate anyone, i just take offense when people say this is how it is nothing else your all wrong... Robin is a good friend and a good guy who deserves his props for the ingenuity he has and the ability to do what he does without using graphs and programs. Just raw skill......

Best quote of the day! absofugginlutely.

Best quote of the day! Maybe we need to keep this going?

Best quote of the day!

I think running an 18" Nightshade will automatically make you a little different when compared to most folks.

On that note this old guy in the gym was randomly talking to me and said "starting your own business is like trying to fckin a btch.....There so many different approaches" lol

Fixed. ahahaha. winning. nice, and thank you sir. i try.

Final proof just came in. The front logo is a touch smaller then I wanted... they said that was the largest they can go. Should be here right on schedule!

By your own reasoning then the party that sought to disprove the designer/builder should " show" his evidence why..................... Again the 1st comment in the thread by M5 was, "Ouch, someone's math is confused. Very confused. That box will not sound good...I don't even need the Skar T/S to tell you that."

Obviously your arrogance has certainly gotten the best of you. My questions were just a questions. They were extremely concise and you didn't answer them directly. I'll ask again. What have you accomplished in the realm of car audio? Have you had any sort of direct involvement in car audio competition? I've been asking the same questions for a long time now and haven't seen any results ... All i've seen him is being rude to people instead of helping when he should have just let Impious answer the questions ... Because all I've seen him do is copy what Impious has to say anyways ... I'm sorry guys, smart or not, he is really arragant to people ...