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well you guys changed my mind, im selling all ,my sundown and SSa stuff today TEAM SKAR FUCKERS!

Going out in the a.m. for you. You'll have the very first production model.

Don't be so mean on Bose. Bose is purposefully not designed to sound good as their main focus of design is different. Kevin on the other hand doesn't understand even rudimentary aspects of design or audio. He does however understand how to lie, cheat and steal.

Thank you guys for Bumping this. I kept seeing it when I was mobile and couldn't donate. I went to pin it for that reason and realized it's pinned. As you post, please keep bumping this to the top of the "View New Posts". Sean, if karma exists you deserve some serious blessings. Most people would focus on helping themselves and not using the energy to help others. I am also sure many of us here read the thread and want to reach out to help Lucy, not just your benefit to St. Jude. I know I sure do.

It's the same reason why people put Bose on a glorified level even though the product, in most cases is glorified garbage. The money the should spend on R&D goes into advertising. It has to cost a fortune to be the official audio company of the NFL, but you won't ever see Bose doing a sound system in a stadium or Arena (not that they have the ability to do so anyways)

i tell you why people buy his products. ADVERTISING. It doesn't matter how terrible the product is, if you can advertise enough and social engineer people into believing they need it, then it will sell.

What's there to defend if he is just going to get shit talked and shut down about what he would have to say? He probably saves himself the time and potential problems man..

Not defending at all, I'm just trying to understand the purpose of this thread. To warn people of terrible CS from Skar Audio. But the OP hasn't replied/updated us or even stated what he's trying to find out? All i'm seeing here is chit from 2009 that Kevin supposedly did, and in any event there is no way to prove that he made those boxes. I saw pics posted but no one posted a receipt, the boxes are horrible obviously but we don't know who made them for certain. Are you fucking serious man? With all of the evidence against him you are still trying to disprove that he made those enclosures. You either don't comprehend things easily, or have some sort of affiliation with Kevin/Skar. You keep asking what the point of this thread is and we have answered. Just as another example he was selling "b stock" items at full price without telling the customer as recently as 2012. You are right that he hasn't been in too much trouble here in 2013 yet so let me give him another chance to screw me over....wait I'm smarter than that!

It was a hypothetical. It's the internet. Guaranteed some moron has posted something about anything. It was meant to make a point. Reading a subjective interpretation of what someone thinks something sounds like is pointless. In particular when that person probably has the listening experience of only that driver or only a couple. Even worse if it is a single enclosure which is the norm. I know where that started. Didn't used to be the case. However, again you can't read into the preference when there is no experience behind it. Everyone is biased towards what they spend their own money on. It's only sad when they expose that bias with error. Audio is supposed to be what you want it to. For me that is getting the best setup I can for the money. And yes, comparing parameters is a HUGE part of determining that. They tell a story. There is a reason that manufacturers post them, lol. If that is your idea of all that is necessary to try, you should ignore everyone who has every tried anything as they will mislead you. Are you for real? Where does freedom of choice even come close to being a topic in this thread. Read the title. Shitty service from a company. Doesn't mean you can't do business with them, just don't expect to get what you are expecting. More like depressing if not. It is really easy and not time consuming at all. Why do you think the audio world wants the parameters in the first place. Hint... If you even once tried to model a driver you'd know your answer. It is easy to tell how different something will sound. Not like you can design a box without doing it either. As for your other question, yes I've definitely measured T/S parameters on drivers. I've also designed end of line test systems for manufacturers who HAVE to test their T/S and other parameters before shipping items. Not sure why this is tough on you guys. Poor design, poor service = Oh hurry, let's get in line to buy!

Ok,, so let's see if we are on track now- So to the present- Kevin is doing business but like other companies, canis getting overwhelmed with orders which has lapsed or delayed communication with people. Besides that, yes, i still agree the product being sold is purely not created by the brains of the owner. Many of us have values that we can start any business we want but if we can't prove or know the details about what we sell, then why put your name on it? IF you are going to say, hey, i'm the owner of Brand X, then customers assume the owner should know the ins and outs of everything sold under that name. And in this case, that's not true with all products and that's what puts a bad taste in people's mouths. Where else are we to go if we can't get the info that is being requested? Nowhere.

The Grey one

I drove the black one and him the white one that day twin turbo 1500rwhp orange one another white one

Damn the black wheels on a black car. I LOVE black cars; IMO, there is no better color for a car, but not with black wheels. Monochrome on black is just not right. At least he didn't get it painted in satin or flat.

x2 Brutal was just about to send you a PM with this thread, telling you to help your friend.

We need pictures of this.

I don't think you should be worried about buying the Sundown subs. Worse can be bought for more money but very few better can be bought for less. The SA series subs have proven themselves and earned their salt in the competition world and many customers are just as happy with the quality of their sound as they are their output. If I were going to suggest other subs to look at it would be the SSA GCON and the Fi X series subs. You'll pay a little bit more and wait a little longer for the SSA and Fi subs but they're 100% hand built here the US and are unmatched quality for the money IMHO. You're not going to go wrong with any of them, so don't fret about the money you're spending, you're in good hands. As for the enclosure, you need a good design to build yourself. If you don't already have one then we can help you with that as well. No matter what subs you decide to go with, including the Type R's, the enclosure is what will decide how well they perform. I almost want to recommend getting the R's and get you a kick ass enclosure design for them so you can rub it in his face, lol, but I won't. Stick with the plan you're working on so far, it will work out for you.

First telll your friend to take the type s out and build a custom box for his one type r in a ported box. I'm sure he will be amazed how much better it will sound lol Is your box a prefab or custom? You have great quality equipment so do everything right and don't cut corners and you will be more than happy with your setup.

These kind of comparison threads won't do you any good. You're talking about two completely different setups in two completely different cars, there's no real comparison to either unless you're talking numbers on a meter. FYI it makes a HUGE difference on what cars and enclosures they're in. Now, given the quality of the Sundown subs and the fact they'll be in a custom built enclosure that's to specifications (or close enough) on a higher quality amp I'm sure they'll perform very well, get plenty loud and sound very good. Given that your buddies setup is two prefab boxes of different types with a cheaper amp and in the trunk of a car with half the seat down I can imagine he's having response and cancellation issues amongst a multitude of other smaller issues that are giving the lackluster performance. The enclosure determines ~90% of the performance you'll get from a sub. Put one of his Alpines in the proper enclosure and compare it to one of the SA12's and the playing field would be a little more even, but only a little. There's so many variables to consider when comparing stuff like this and if everything isn't apples to apples then the comparison doesn't have any real value. Be confident that your intended setup, by all the information you provided and just doing a quick and dirty estimate, should easily outperform your buddies setup. That by no means is a guarantee, nor is it scientifically based on facts, it's just an opinion.

I do not know personally M5 and the others here, but If I have to choose a product I'd rather trust them than the Skar owner and the others Skar users. You can't say a product is good because you have just tried them in your car : who are you to make me believe what you think is true ? Pioneer : you said GPC designed you a box for your sub, maybe that is why you like your Skar sub ! You must have a good box This SSA forum is where I get the best advices on car audio. Can't compare to SMd !!! smh

If you love the lows, you'll love the evil. These sound so good. I currently have around 6k to each of mine and no issues yet.

Please refer to this link and follow it. http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/topic/56501-classifieds-rules/

I have installed (against my advice) a pair of VVX's, they were promptly replaced within a month.

Going out in the a.m. for you. You'll have the very first production model. :)/> Nice!

Lol and you thought alot longer!

Dbl poast.

Good looking box. This project is evolving into a force to be reckoned with.Keep up the good work.

We appreciate that, please PM me what you are looking for exactly, i'll get a price on them for you. Thanks so much!

Well technically its not a Rod at all. Its a truck. But it is sorta a ratty type of build, just has a couple comforts, (heat / air, system, carpet) Alot of the nicer rat builds you see have the vintage air in them. Especially the ones that do the long trips. There is nothing "cool" about sweating your balls off if you dont have to. lol Not sure what you mean about the A/C panel? Its was already done prior, just need to put back on the one vent on the drivers side. Just poking a little fun at the "Rat Rod" title. No point in preaching to the choir about the importance of A/C, I live in South Texas. It's a sweet truck. My bad on that A/C panel bit. I meant the A/C controls panel. As BigJon mentioned I work for the company that makes the system. Fixturing and programming to make the A/C controls panel for the 55-59 Chevy truck kit was a bear. I don't get out much to see our products in action, so it was a real treat to see one here, and especially one I was directly involved in. Carry on with the sweet build.

I saw this coming. Fi keeps the best designs for themselves after all and everything else is just a sticker change

I don't think the car is going to last much longer lol

Not knowing what you are doing and claiming you do makes your products inferior because you won't have the experience or knowledge to back them and provide accurate CS. Anybody can slap a sticker on something and call it their own, and if you want to do that at least know what you are selling to people before you get a head too big for your hat because this is what happens. Unfortunately in today's world you can attract flies with shit which we all know is cheaper than honey.

Fox news sucks.

Kinda shocked if it's the same guy. But why would so many people be buying his products? I saw he was on Fox news also

Done. Prayers coming your way. Stay strong my friend, one day at a time. St. Jude is a wonderful cause, we donate monthly and hope to always be able to.

Looks loud! Congrats!

tyler has it, I only had a few clips lol

I love that analogy, lol. However, 1cuft is not overly large for a 10 sealed, and on the low end of the recommended scale by Kicker for the CVR's. The DCON's optimal sealed enclosure size .9cuft and Kicker recommends from .8cuft to 3cuft. WinISD verifies the CVR likes the larger 3cuft for a Q of .7 and a good smooth response. The Sundown E10 is another story though, as Sundown recommends .5cuft, but the response doesn't vary a great deal in WinISD from .5cuft to 1cuft to 2cuft. The problem for any of them in the larger sealed enclosures is the XMAX and it does run out of XMAX pretty fast in an enclosure larger than .5cuft. The DCON doesn't run out of steam until a little under 32hz, and the Kicker runs out of steam WAY before the other two. I don't know if ISD just doesn't like the math (Kicker doesn't post any of the important T/S parameters) or if it's really that limited. I'm not sure how accurate the ISD excursion plots are either, so that all needs taken with a grain of salt. It does give an idea of how things look and from what I see the Kickers are running out of steam at ~61hz, the DCON runs out of steam at ~30hz and the E10 at ~45hz in 1cuft enclosures. The E10 can get to about 25hz in .5cuft before reaching it's XMAX limits. All those are taken with 400watts as the signal power, that changes with less power applied of course. I do agree, there's plenty of 12's out there that would be at home in 1 cuft sealed enclosures. If the boxes are wide enough to support the cutout for a 12" sub it's a direction that the OP could go and actually get some gain in output.

I agree. There's just not going to be a real noticeable difference in output just changing the subs out, period. Without changing something else you're just going to piss money away. Do not opt for the Skar and there's so many reasons why you shouldn't, just do a quick search. If you're dead set on blowing some cash on new subs the Sundown E10's wouldn't be a bad way to spend it, nor would a pair of DCON 10's. It will be a waste of money though as we've tried to tell you "YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HEAR ANY REAL DIFFERENCE!" If you don't believe us, model the subs in WinISD all in the same 1.2cuft enclosures with the same power applied and you'll see our point.

why so many tweets? :S

16k- 152.5 headrest outlaw. Like i said.. blah.. hehe. I have made a document from start to finish on everything i'm doing to improve. I estimate 9months worth of tuning so wish me luck.. I still need to tune port, displace volume inside wall, seal the wall and the car, and then wire to 0.5ohms, i'm at 2ohms per amp right now. And then fine tweaking like coating the wall and the car with something.. And be the first(to my knowledge) to structurally brace the doors without losing functionality of windows rolling down... and prove it gained on the meter.

where were you? residential or parking lot?

lol, i went out to measure my bc5500d and i got over 20% above clean on mine so the 20% is just a loose estimate, lol... Clean should be around 74v on my amps. I hit 95.4v other day on output... oops, lol. My scores suck but they've always sucked in this car.. This time, i plan on tuning it for the next 9months so hopefully it goes way up... Otherwise.. i'll just use it as it is..

His is slightly louder than mine, but Mine can go considerably lower. deff sounds good lol.. How did you like my RF pro audio