abmoore

Well, going 3-way and running midbass in doors does save one problem of aiming as that's not really important in the midbass frequency range. Time arrival is however very important in this frequency range and will need to be corrected electrically via time alignment......but I believe Imprint will attempt to correct time arrival, so that hopefully should be able to be corrected. It also would allow you to have ample airspace for the midbass driver, just need to be sure you select a midbass that will perform well essentially IB. What type of midbass performance are you looking for? Do you want them to be very "punchy", or just smooth and tight? Where did you plan on mounting the midranges? Is there a factory location you will be dropping them into, or custom building a pod for them? Also, were you using the H100 for the Imprint? Because from what I could find, it's only a 3-way processor (tweeter/mid/sub), meaning you wouldn't be able to go fully active 4-way (tweeter/midrange/midbass/subwoofer) through the H100. It can work, and do well (from one seat) if tuned properly. There might be some hard-to-tame reflection issues depending on how/where the midranges are installed....but everything is a give and take, so sacrifices will always have to be made somewhere. Well, I am going to get the h701 later, which apparently can be connected to the imprint, at least I read of a couple people doing that. Oh, and the imprint does have time correction. So the four way won't be a problem then. As for midbass, I really like depth and a fullness to my midbass, but I guess smooth and tight would fit that description better than punchy. For the mids tweets, I really have no idea where to mount them in order for them to work well together in this size car. I have that link on the bottom of page 5 I believe that has some good interior pictures. I will not mind altering the dash or pillars so any modifications to that will work well. And there is a considerable amount of airspace in the doors so I guess I have a lot of options there. But I did look at the hybrid 3 way system with the L8, L4, and pro L1, and it didn't look bad at all. The price was more than I expected, but if it is a good deal, that will be fine with me. I guess it will just take a while to buy it haha. As always though, I am still open minded. Thanks.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both 2-way and 3-way. If this is your first attempt at an active setup, my suggestion would be to stick with 2-way initially. Appropriately tuning an active setup isn't as easy as it sounds.....it would be a much better learning experience, IMO, to start with a 2-way and once you gain some hands-on experience can decide if you think moving to a 3-way would be beneficial. And you would probably achieve better results with a 2-way initially due to the less complicated tuning requirements. Problem is, there are advantages and disadvantages to everything.....what you need to do is decide what set of tradeoffs best suit your needs. Just briefly; Speakers in kickpanels you have to worry about appropriate sizing and aiming of the kickpanels, legroom possibly being given up, early reflections from the underside of the dash, and having or acquiring the skill to build them.....but you typically gain more equalized pathlengths, ability to better aim the speakers, good imaging from both front seats, and while there are early reflections from the dash/etc there are steps that can be taken to tame them. Mids in doors have the disadvantage of typically having worse aiming and not much room for decent aiming, more unequalized pathlengths requiring use of time alignment and inherently limiting good imaging to only a single seat, possibly have early diffraction and reflection due to the door panel that can be more difficult to tame, typically differing listening axis from each driver which not desirable and could decrease imaging/coherence.......but on the plus side, it's an easier install, with the proper processing and install considerations results can still be acceptable for a single listening position, easily accessible airspace for the midbass, and no legroom given up. If you separate the tweeter from the mid (mid in door, tweeter in A-pillar for example) you may help your stage height at the expense of possible coherence and lobing at the crossover point, but that can be helped with proper tuning but typically requires proper tuning to get "right". That certainly isn't a comprehensive overview, but should give you some things to consider when selecting your mounting locations and what best fits your time and abilities. As for drivers, there are so many options on the market it can be difficult for us to make too specific recommendations, especially without knowing specifics as far as how they will be installed and used. Some of them will perform well IB in a door, others could benefit froman enclosure. So that's soemthing to take into consideration. Howhigh they will be playing (2-way or 3-way) for mids and how low they'llbe playing (tweeters) will also play a role. Seas, Peerless, Vifa and ScanSpeak are pretty much staples in the DIY community for building quality, well performing drivers at affordable prices. Scanspeak just released a new line, Discovery, which are reasonable priced. SB Acoustics is relatively new but from all reports are well performing drivers. The Dayton Reference line have good distortion performance but have some cone breakup issues that can limit how high they can be used on the top end. Usher builds good drivers, though are on the higher end of the mid-priced drivers. HiVi and Tang Band can be hit or miss....some of their drivers perform well for the price. LPG has pretty good performing small format tweeters, as does Seas. The LPG however don't do so hot crossed over very low (<2500hz), so for example LPG tweeter with Dayton Ref driver probably wouldn't be an optimal mix. If you want a low playing tweeter, chances are you'll have to end up with a large format tweeter. There's just dozens and dozens of options. Ok, thanks that was helpful. I think I want to do the doors for the midbass, although that would cause a loss of imaging. If I bandpassed that to a narrow range and used mids in the dash and tweets in the a pillars could that potentially help the imaging. And as for tuning, I have friends that used to compete in SQ, so they could be a big help with that. The problem is they have been out of the game for a while and are not caught up with recent products. I also want to do as much as I can by myself so maybe kicks can be saved for next time. But as for the doors, dash, and pillars, would that be a good idea?

On page 5 there is a link I provided at the bottom of the page to pictures of my car due to the fact I lost my camera. I have a 2004 Tahoe. First post explains pretty much everything. And for the hybrid 2 way, about how much does that run? Will just that 8 and the tweeter be as good as a 3 way set up? And I am honestly not that worried about price due to the fact this will take a while to purchase anyway and I would like to get something I will be pleased with, although, if cheaper will sound "relatively" the same, that will suit me just fine. So knowing that, I know brands and models pretty well, but a couple specific personal suggestions of a 3 way set would be great considering I don't have the resources to listen to all of these. I have searched around but I really just am looking for 3 models, not generalized brands that will blend well together. I have ordered the imprint for the time being, eventually if needed I will get the h701. I didnt necessarily want to mount in the kicks unless I had to, but the a pillars and dash would be fine.

I am just looking for some specific raw drivers that will work well with a 3 way active front stage. I just bought the alpine imprint and I am going to purchase the h701 later so I can do a 4 way. This thread seems to keep repeating itself. I want to use an 8 midbass and a 4 midrange. My original intentions were more expensive speakers, then most of you informed me to focus on the install. So then I said I would like to use less expensive speakers, and if a 2 way front stage will work better that would be fine. Then there was a long discussion about sound damping, which was fine. So any input on mounting locations or specific speakers would be great. I will look into the hybrid pro tweets again but like you said, they are expensive, not sure on the price though. Thanks

So..... I cannot find my camera. Here is a link to some pictures that are far better than I can take anyway. Just go to the interior pictures. The only difference I can see mine has is that below the parking break there is an elevated piece of plastic for a foot rest. My link And I am looking for suggestions on speakers. I like all of the talk about damping and such, and have learned quite a bit, but it tends to get the conversation off topic. Although, if any talk of it is needed, it will be appreciated. Thanks. Also, didn't mean to change the conversation tone again, ha ha, but it was a slight hijack.

He has a W505 and therefore doesn't need the controller. The 505 is a way better controller than the rux anyways. I'd also highly recommend not using dynamat but instead shopping for deadener products here: http://sounddeadenershowdown.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi I won't comment on the speaker locations until I know what car you have. Perhaps I missed it/forget it through the thread, but every car is different and a compromise. What do you feel you are able to do? I have a 2004 tahoe, probably should add that to my sig. So you don't recommend the h-701, do you think the dqxs is needed or should I get the alpine imprint system with the mic. I liked mjmorovi's set up, that was what I was hoping I could do since the kicks do not seem like they would work for me. Do you have any other suggestions of something that would work better. And if I put the mids in the dash, how far back. It is pretty deep, I would say almost 28-30 inches. I will have to measure that though. For the tweets, there are existing mounting positions from the stock tweets that are about the position that was suggested for me to use. Althogh,they do point forward towards the windshield about 30 degrees and slightly upwards.

YES! The real question then is what size. There are some budget 4"ers that IMO are better than the L4 as well, but if you aren't needing a 4 that is not worthwhile info to post here. So I have been looking around some more. How do you feel about the Usher 8137A 8", Vifa NE123W-04 4" or Tang Band W4-1720 4", and the Dayton RS28A-4 1 1/8". The prices are much lower than I expected just wondering how you think these would sound or if anyone has any experience with these. Thanks. Those wouldn't be a good match together. Considering this has derailed a bit, before thinking about drivers I'd like an update on processing, mounting locations and such. Preferably, I would like to stay away from kick panels unless I have to use them. I also use this as a work truck and unless you think it would work mounted a little higher than normal kicks I don't think it will work. Someone mentioned earlier they had seen mids and tweeters mounted in the dash that worked well (by the way, where in the dash would they work best?), but I would like using the A-pillars if you think that could cut it. I just don't see the speakers getting very close due to the width of the car. Is the DQXS not a good match for this system? I kind of wanted to use it considering I will have 3 to 4 amps, but if you think the h-701 will be better I will consider it.

YES! The real question then is what size. There are some budget 4"ers that IMO are better than the L4 as well, but if you aren't needing a 4 that is not worthwhile info to post here. So I have been looking around some more. How do you feel about the Usher 8137A 8", Vifa NE123W-04 4" or Tang Band W4-1720 4", and the Dayton RS28A-4 1 1/8". The prices are much lower than I expected just wondering how you think these would sound or if anyone has any experience with these. Thanks.

Yeah, I also got great reactions from my single Q 18 on a NINe.1. Can't remember the box, think 8^3 tuned to 30Hz, was real happy with it's response especially considering the size.

Welcome!

Not to play the devil's advocate (not to say anyones the bad guy just to clarify haha).... but they are also sharing their own opinions.

If I could chime in real quick, don't mean to break the tension haha. Do you guys think I will be able to hear the difference in them, especially considering I am by no means an SQ specialist nor am I going to compete. So I was wondering if this sounds like a good idea. Should I just go with the cheaper speakers and focus on the install like a few of you said? And in that case, are the hybrids or scanspeaks a better deal. Also, I am guessing that the Seas RW220 was rejected kind of unanimously so what other suggestions for that?

Ok, I think loud was just a subjective description. Maybe just higher quality at my normal listening level if that makes sense, still not sure if thats SQ, but I'm sure with that amount of power it should be loud enough. So are you guys saying the lotus 220s may not be a good choice for an 8? And since I know its hard to say one speaker is better than another, especially at those high caliber of brands and reputations, can you say some of the advantages and disadvantages? As for the the placement of the drivers, 8s should be in kickpanels, mids in the dash and tweets in the pillars? Kind of the jist I am getting. And I figured out I do not have my camera at my house... I don't know where it is so it may be until tomorrow until I can get pics. thanks.

the tweeter xover point really has to do with the midranges ability, and it's output in that range from wherever is it mounted. I agree Hybrid mid-bass drivers, the L6's and L8's as amazing as they are, are also quite pricey. the midranges and tweeters I feel are well worth the price and def. not outrageous. the lotus mid-bass should be quite amazing, not really sure how well they would play up to 2khz, but if they play up to 2khz cleanly, you could get a pair of the hybrid proL1 tweets and only go 2 way, just an option, but 3-ways are pretty sick when pulled off properly. so lets get some info, would it be possible for you to take pics of possible mounting locations in your vehicle? ideally speaking you want less than a 16" difference in distance from left and right speakers from the listening position. or if you can't accomplish that, then as close as you can get. that's why doors are horrible cause right door is so much further away than left door. lol also, what price range are we looking at? I know those seas aren't cheap so I see you are willing to invest, that's good just want to make sure we don't go too crazy. also is this going to be a SQ competition goal or just daily SQ goal? This is a SQ daily driver but I do like it loud. I will get some pics up tomorrow if I can. I will put them anywhere and I have plenty of space being that it is a tahoe. And I was planning on crossing the midbass a little lower than 2k so maybe a little beefier mid would be good? Not sure on that though. The 16" may be hard to do but there is always a way! And this will be an investment. I like doing my research ahead of time, and getting something I can play around with for a long time. Thanks

I haven't had anything in this car other than components mounted in the lower door so I plan on trying a few configurations, guess the angle depends whether the placement is in the door or not right, or how it sounds there? And what were the prices of the hybrid audios? Oh btw, dunno if it makes a difference, but I will be using an RTA to help me get my desired response. So how important is the initial flat response of the speaker when the placements in the car have such a large impact on the response anyway? Just easier considering its a three way front stage? Thanks.

I have to decided to just go with a front stage in my car instead of a set of components for the front and the rear. I am thinking of a 3 way because I have my subs crossed at 60 Hz and want a little more midbass. I am going for an SQ setup and listen to everything, but I generally like heavier midbass, warm midrange, and softer highs. I have a 2004 Tahoe with an Alpine IVA-W505 up front with a Audiocontrol DQXS for when I can run active. I have eDead 120 and SS Damplifier Pro for damping and the subs are 4 ED 13Av.2s ported, tuned to 32 Hz, on an USAmps Ax3200de. The electrical is a 300 Amp Alt., 0 AWG, RF 10 Farad Cap, and 4 Deka Intimidators. I plan on using a Zapco REF 1000.4 for the mids and tweeters, and either a Helix A4, Genesis Dual Mono, or Zapco REF 750.2 for the midbass. I am planning on using Seas Lotus RW220 for the mid bass. I can't decide on which mid or tweeter to use and would like some suggestions. I have looked at the Seas Lotus RW120, Peerless' (not sure which ones), Scanspeaks, Daytons, and Morel CDM-88s for the mids. I am still researching and trying to listen to different tweeters but so far the Seas Lotus RW27fs and Vifas have caught my attention. Price is not a huge concern because I will be buying the parts over time but lower is always better. Thanks for the help.

Do the XTs have any internal fusing like the MDs? And yeah sorry for the mix up, no experience with the amps, just with the site.

I bought my AX3200de from them refurbished, works great.

Yeah I was thinking for a sub maybe the IDQ10, Fi Q 10, or ICON 10. For the comps maybe the DLS UP6i, Image Dynamics CXS64 v.2, Boston Acoustics Pro60, Focal 165KF, or Morel Tempo6. Having trouble picking though.

What comps would you recommend? And how would I go active with the head units I listed? He is on a budget and wants the 2 DIN, didn't think you could do it with the avn3100 or avn4100. I also am curious about a good shallow mount sub or another alternative. Thanks

My dad's friend recently asked me to help build him a system after hearing a previous setup I had and decided he wanted something as well. His budget is around $1300-1400 and wants to incorporate an in dash dvd, no need for nav, but with touch screen, BT, and IPOD capabilities. He drives a 2009 Ford Lariat F 150 and would like to keep customization minimal and realiability high. He primarily listens to country, oldies, classic rock, blues, and jazz. He doesn't necessarily require a large amount of bass, I guess just enough to add more depth. So a daily driver car but no means will it be an SQ or SPL car, he does not have much exposure to the field so I won't need to go all out but I also want to suprise him. I was thinking about using a 450/4v2 that I could have picked up for a good price but after today a good choice is looking like the Sundown 100.4. Front channels to components and the rear will be bridged to a subwoofer. Wondering what box design with fit this type of truck and a corresponding subwoofer, as well as any components that will all fit this type of project and price range. I will probably get a Pioneer AVH-3100 dvd or AVH-4100 dvd for the source which will take up about $300 of the budget. So with the remaining $1000-1100, can be slightly more, any ideas? The sundown is also $365 here on the site and box material is no issue, nor is the wiring and accessories. Thanks for the help

Just found results online ranging from 1000 - 3000 at 4 ohms, 2800 - 4400 at 1 ohm, that it's .5 ohm stable, even .25 in some applications kicking out 7800. I am kinda confused. It only has a 300 amp fuse and accepts up to 15.9 V.

I will have to contact him, I always read about the mono amps, guess for some reason I skipped over the stereo amps. Anyone have any experience with the other amps and what they are like. The Zuki interested me with the whole 4 x 5 watt rating at .00005 THD, curious to see the power at .05 to .1 percent. I currently have the Arc Audio FD 4150 and have been pleased, are any of these much better?

Well than your wrong again, go ahead an increase that percentage. Awesome quality and puts out enourmous power. HA Thanks. Tip of the hat to you. What is their power output, I'm guessing underrated like the mono amps?

I don't have a set budget but I like getting a good deal for my money, yet good quality and something I would be able to enjoy for a while. I have not looked into sundown but I wasn't sure if that was quite what I was after. I was under the impression it was meant to get more loud than more quality. Although I have learned I'm wrong about 90 percent of the time so... How does it compare?