abmoore

I'm not going to disagree with you, wire does not make power. However i did notice slightly less dimming in my previous car when I upgraded my 4 gauge power wire to 1/0 and added just a second ground from battery to chassis with 4 gauge. I had a 1000 watt sub amp and a ~200 watt amp for my interior speakers, with a 105 amp alternator. That is why I mentioned in my previous post that the only thing it may do is reduce dimming by a small amount, it's not going to help the amp make more power. DImming issues are the voltage drop. The alternator just charges the battery. I know what you meant but clarifying. And even if it is overkill to do 1/0 gauge for big three, although I suggested 4, it couldn't do anything but help, no matter how marginally small the difference is going be. I agree with the 80 amp fuse if you can't find the 90, or even 100, only if you could maintain your voltage and don't push that amp all the way (not safe or recommended though, just saying it is possible).

There's much more to it than that. First, cone area and Xmax are multiplied to arrive at a parameter known as Vd, or volume displacement. This is the amount of linear air displacement the driver is capable of achieving. The higher the Vd, the higher linear output capabilities the driver has as a larger Vd means the driver is capable of displacing more air. Second, don't confuse Xmax with excursion. They are different. Excursion is how far the cone is physically moving. Xmax is the maximum amount of linear excursion the driver is capable of achieving. Excursion is the amount of movement, Xmax is the limit of how much of that movement is "linear". Generally a driver operating at Xmax will have ~10% THD. This is typically the highest amount of acceptable performance. As you exceed Xmax it's generally considered that the distortion performance would be at an unacceptable level (among other things). In sealed enclosures, Vd is one of the important factors along with alignment and the driver's parameters in determining output capabilities. All things equal, the driver with the higher Vd will have higher output. In reality, things are never equal. So you have to look at the response of the driver in a given alignment along with your environment and available power. Having a higher Vd isn't any good if you don't have the requisite power to reach Xmax or if the driver is in an alignment that begins to roll off at a high frequency. Having a higher Vd is only a capability of higher output; whether or not you will be able to realize that higher output is dependent upon several other factors. In terms of low frequency performance, you're required to increase displacement by a factor of 4 in order to maintain a given SPL level one octave lower in frequency. This means that you need to displace 4x the air at 25hz as you do at 50hz to maintain the same SPL level at both frequencies. You can see how having a higher Xmax could be beneficial as displacement requirements increase substantially in lower frequencies. In the low frequencies Vd can be very important as it can very much limit how much linear output your system will be able to achieve. Luckily in car audio we have substantial cabin gain in the low frequencies as well, so we can maintain SPL levels at lower frequencies without having to quadruple our displacement. A 12db gain at 25hz compared to 50hz, for example, is equivalent to doubling your displacement. So if you have a 12db gain at 25hz compared to 50hz in your vehicle, you've already accomplished half of the feat. Generally you want the most cone area you can reasonably place within your space, environment and enclosure requirements. Why? A driver with a larger cone area will displace a greater amount of air for a given excursion level. This means that it takes less excursion to reach a given SPL level with more cone area. This, in turn, means that the driver(s) would ideally be operating further within it's linear range at that SPL level which, ideally, reduces distortion. This ofcourse assumes the drivers are of similar distortion performance as distortion performance will vary based on driver designs. For example, one driver may still have less distortion at 15mm than another more poorly designed driver (from a distortion perspective) driver operating at 10mm. The reason Xmax "doesn't matter" for SPL is because 1) the subwoofers are generally "burped" near tuning where excursion is minimized and 2) Xmax is a linear parameter....people competing in SPL don't really care about having higher distortion due to possibly exceeding Xmax. But that doesn't mean Xmax is not important in ported enclosures. Xmax is not a limitation on how far the driver can physically move , only on how much of that movement is linear. Also, going back to what we said about power and alignment; Xmax does not tell you how much excursion you will have in your alignment with your power. And that is what ultimately determines how much output you will have from the enclosure, any enclosure. Vd is still "important" in ported enclosure as it still helps determine which driver has the capability for higher linear output, but you have to look at your power and alignment to determine which will ultimately have higher excursion, and hence output, in use. In a ported enclosure generally enclosure size and tuning are going to have a significant impact on low frequency response and excursion with regards to frequency; but that doesn't make Xmax irrelevant for daily listening. About a half octave above tuning, the enclosure will behave similarly to a sealed enclosure meaning excursion will increase to a point that is similar to that of a sealed enclosure. Xmax may become important in this region where it's possible to reach or exceed the Xmax of the driver. That post feels like it was one giant ramble.....hopefully it makes sense. You say ramble, I say point made. Thanks for the explaination in further detail. I was forgetting it was a linear measurement for some reason. Isn't xsus, or xmec, the max excursion. And how does Vas relate to excursion? Is that the box size needed to reach full excursion at tuning, resonance, or something like that? I might start another thread about bl, that also seems to be a big advertising technique.

Your voltage also depends on your batteries. A 12 V battery is normally regulated at 14.6V when fully charged on a stock electrical. A 16V battery requires a 16V alternator and will charge up to 19V. So a new aftermarket battery has a chance that it will rest higher than 12.4-12.6, and a chance that it will charge greater than 14.6V, like you sometimes may see when a voltage meter reads 14.8V. Also depends on the battery, AGM batteries shouldn't be used above 14.6V because it damages the cells. All of these numbers are plus minus some percentage but generally around here.

I couldn't find a current RF 6001d, they do have a 700-1bd, and that is one ohm stable. Could you get the model and year for us?

Just watch out for those painters and their overspray haha. Drywall dust is one thing, industrial enamel paints are another....

I just read the same thing on a few places. And I was just suggesting it may not be suitable, not everyone wants to be affiliated with illegal ripping, I mean I have done it and gotten caught, and paid a lot to get out of it, just looking out so no need to be defensive.

2 DCON Dual 4s FTW x100. Those p1s don't compare IMHO. With the right enclosure I am sure it will be a big difference.

Well I guess a severe compromise is in order for right now. I can save money in the future and go the ID ultra route. So I guess I should either go passive or maybe a 7 or 8 midbass and a tweeter I can cross pretty low. Either way I want to mount in the kicks and angle towards the passenger and the other side angle at myself, unless having them on-axis to a point head high between the passenger and myself would work better. If I do a passive, I could do a nice two way, or three way with a larger midbass and keep it in the door, leaving the mid and tweet in the kick. Out of those choices, what is looking the best for more than average midbass and less harsh, natural highs? Most likely I guess I would be looking at an oversized soft dome tweeter possibly. Something like a Vifa 25XTBG60-04, Morel CAT 308, or even a Dayton RS28A (even though it has an aluminum dome I heard it is not harsh in an automotive environment), plus they all seem to have a relatively high power handling to make up for the lack in efficiency. For mids I would need something with response to about 60-70 Hz I am guessing which shouldnt be hard for an 8, but response above 3-4kHz while still providing more than average output may be a limiting factor. I am still open to the idea of multiple mids too. Thanks.

If you are near the Raleigh/Durham area I know a guy with a meter. Although I haven't seen his so I will have to find out what type it is. I wish I knew of competitions around here too.

Does anyone know what is wrong with the CD1e v3s? I would love to incorporate those due to the price. Or I will just have to change my goals.

Jackhammer, or two. Or the matterhorn.

Do IOUs count? Lol

I was just wondering if they were anything like horns... I wouldn't do two haha that would be slight overkill huh?

Morel CW 8s are a good fit? I was looking at those the CAW938s, and I think the EWs. So I guess I can open the anarchys back up as an option, as well as the auras. Now the question is what about the highs? The ID ultras seem to expensive and I don't know if the cd1e v3s will cut it. I know the guys at ID are trying to make a sale, but it sounded like they thought the ultras were better for my goal. So maybe different horns or a super tweeter, or multiple tweets. Possibly a passive network with a mid and a tweet. Any ideas that would go well with that type of midbass.

Theatres are always an option. Don't think SSA wants to be affiliated with illegal downloading. though, no offense. I mean I was caught by the RIAA and US district court for music 4 years ago. It was a hefty fee. Now I buy everything. Sure ways around it, but not sure if this forum is right for that question.

Haha, I know I am doing the sub stage for a while and plan on keeping it, but not necessarily in this truck, I will scale down to a 15 XCON or something. I eventually want to do a 4 way active set up, or 3 way maybe, but the focus will be on SQ. So basically this is kind of a last hoorah* in the spl department. Although I would like to maybe have some drivers that I could keep around for the next set up if at all possible. So that is a more accurate description of what I hope to do, so I guess I would have to sacfrice some output and go clean, I mean it should still be louder than my current set up if I wanted it to be.

Buy movies.

Oh, yeah I re-read the thread, what is your budget by the way? This all gets more expensive than you may expect. electrical upgrades may be equivalent to your whole set up in some cases lol. What vehicle do you have and what does your electrical consist of now? What music is this for mostly rap, hip hop, or rock or tones?

I would listen to him. As for EQing, be patient, it takes a lot of time sitting in your garage or driveway, I always save a preset I like, then keep changing, compare the ones I like, then develop a feel for what is right and wrong. After a good bit of time you will get something you are very happy with!

Oh I thought he was just discussing the theory behind it. OP, is your goal deep bass? And can someone post an answer explaining the relationship between the t/s parameters and "deep" bass, like how they all correspond, or what the common similarities are in these subwoofers that are used for extended low frequencies. There has been about five questions a day concerning that it seems.

Doesn't a driver reach its full xmax at fs? Or is that just the resonant frequency, I would think they correspond. But for lower frequencies, more air needs to be moved to achieve a higher spl, so sd, bl, and other factors also influence spl. A high xmax, bl, low fs, generally high Q, and high power handling seem to be prevalent in low end beasts, what I mean by that is a lot of output below 40 Hz. Just what I have seen, someone on here has a better explaination. Just saw your post, 4 times the cone area will equal double the xmax? Or it may be proportional, hopefully someone chimes in, I think denim had a good explaination somewhere on here, I could be wrong.

Lol they barely make noise.... Anyways, the box size for Qs and BLs are similar, but it depends on the type of box, tuning, how flat you want your response to be, etc... The Q 18 easily needs 10 cubes at 28 Hz for a really nice response. If you have that room you can do two properly housed BLs, or BTLs for that matter. Are you stuck on buying Fi or are you considering other brands?

I second that, the point of upgrading your electrical extends beyond just getting more power out of your amplifier, it protects your car from the extra strain you are putting on the electrical system. Big three and 4 gauge should be fine for his, but 0 gauge, big three, and most likely a secondary or stronger starting battery is a necessity for your system if you are pulling that amount of current to produce 2500 watts.

My friend angled his about 10 degrees forward and 10 degrees up from a direct crossfire. His seem to be a bit lower than your listening position. I guess you won't know until you try. That parametric EQ will help a ton with mounting problems, nothing is as good as getting the mounting correct I guess, but It seems to help me. What frequencies seem to be harsh? I don't know what the natural rolloff of the mid and tweeter are but they could be overlapping too much, that is purely a guess though, I would wait for some more advice on the crossover points.

I have made this thread before but now I have made some changes in the equipment I will be using that I hope will make this an easier install. Here is the link to the last thread I had regarding this issue Two-way active front stage - SSA Car Audio Forum My goal was to have increased output overall, along with authoritative midbass. My sub stage was going to be crossed low so we eventually decided on 2 Exodus Anarchys for each door, for the midbasses, and ID CD1e v3 horns for the highs. Since then I have purchased two amps I would like to use, an MB Quart DSC 4125 and a DSC 480 (260 shipped for the pair ::). Anyway, I am changing my sub stage to two 18 BTLs on two Crescendo 3kwds, so a considerable more amount of output and hopefully a higher crossover point. At this stage, flat response is clearly out of the question, yet I like cranking down my subs and having a somewhat musical system. My newer goals I guess will be to have increased midbass, less harsh, more realistic highs (yet more output, think that may pose a problem), better imaging (than I have now, I know that this limits my output), and a lower budget. The budget was fine but after talking to the guys at ID, they thought that the CD1 ultras better fit my needs over the CD1e v3s, but sadly are far more expensive. I fear that this all may be too contradicting to work out so hopefully I can reach a decision. I just ordered my BTLs and one of my Crescendos so I have a while to make some money for this project, but I feel like saving some is really important right now. I think a few of you recommended pro audio drivers, and I have had many others ranging from the aura sound 10 to pairs of ID CX62s. Really budget is going to be a deciding factor, considering I am not trying to spend 1000 on horns and midbasses. So with 500-600 I just wanted to look into some alternative choices. Sorry guys for this repeating thread but I think the answer is close. Oh, and for the mounting locations, I wanted to use kick panels, but after the horns I decided I wanted to use the doors for midbass. As for now though, the kick panel idea is back open in case I need to used a higher crosssed mid. All other information can be found in the link above. Thanks.