sundownz

Don't get too carried away -- it still is just a 7" driver. Even if the subs raw response isn't nearly as good it will have FAR more output than a 7" driver with limited, in comparison, amounts of x-max. Also keep in mind that IB is required to pull this off for the 302 mid... never, and I repeat, never... put the 302 mid in a sealed box unless you have about 4 cubes or an aperiodic membrane and about 2 cubes.

Both response graphs are taken in anechoic conditions, and this is generally done on a large baffle, IB, for any manufacturer (except Seas, I think they use a 1 ft^3 sealed box). It's an apples to apples comparison. When you throw them in a car the PL will certainly start looking alot better. But you still have the fact that the 302 midbass doesn't have to work nearly as hard to do the same thing. I have tested them crossed over at 25 Hz playing the new A Perfect Circle CD... bass reproduction was most impressive -- as Nick can attest for you as well. I'd certainly love to do some in-car measurements of the 302... once I get this semester over with I'm sure Nick and I will do just that. The 302s certainly are not the end-all on door components... but I think anything else in their price category is in for some serious competition.

You won't bottom out the 302 mid unless you have torn the suspension, you can't push it far enough with your hand to bottom it out. And yes, it is a 7" midrange driver. Describe the sound... I'm not a big fan of those type of descriptive terms. I would describe it as very accurate, and quite dynamic for a mid in this price range.

I've played around with the crossover frequency extensively on this set and dropping it to 50Hz has done nothing but make the bass more up-front. The set remains very clear up to an unpleasantly loud volume level. Now, if you are going to absolutely jam the hell out of them then yah, an 80 Hz crossover frequency will do alot to lower IMD. This mid has really impressed me with how well it handles the low crossover frequency though... it has a VERY shallow low-end rolloff so it doesn't move *that much* to make quite a bit of low information. How shallow is the roll-off? The response graph shows the mid being only 5 dB lower at 20 Hz than at 100 Hz. For comparsion sake lets consider the PL18WO09 from Vifa. It is 13 dB lower at 20 Hz than at 100 Hz. Something to consider...

I would definatly suggest having a good amount of power for the 302s... if they have a weakness it's that they aren't the most efficient set on the market. The amp I have is capable of 200 x 2 RMS bridged... which is how I'm running it. Of course the gain structure is set so that I'll never have near that power... but I will tell you 30 x 2 RMS is not enough to do them justice.

I run the 302s at 50Hz with an 18dB slope without issue. What about the 307s? They have a crossover box, adjustable tweeter level, and the midrange is just flat out superior -- but it's not made for off-axis install, it really needs kicks to perform well. They are also made with using a seperate midbass driver in mind.

Very clean install you have there, good work.

Showed off the 302s to a friend who is running an entirely Alpine Type-R setup. He was quite impressed... I believe his exact words were, "Wow, now that is clarity." His Type-R components sound pretty good, don't get me wrong, but they most definatly weren't equal to the 302s -- and he agreed with that no arguments. The Type-R tweeter sounded somewhat shrill in comparison and the midbass capability wasn't anywhere near the 302s. And, of course, since he had no EQ you could sense the mids rolling off in his car, where that wouldn't be happening with the 302 midrange. Steven, I need to track you down sometime you can take a listen -- you might end up wanting a set!

Need some help with x-over design Nick? B) Seriously though... I'm gonna have to check out what you are doing w/ them.

Don't forget to mention I am using all of 2 bands of EQ right now. They are pretty much good to go on their own.

Any type of casing would increase cost. A case will not be offered with the bare components. You could talk to Nick about pricing on a wooden box like the 307s though. To keep cost down we are going with raw boards at the time being.

What about em? They aren't the prettiest... but they are beefy and work great. Behind the left inductor there are some more capacitors as well, they just didn't make the pictures.

The Infinity Kappa midwoofer has a 5" cut-out diameter, so the 302 midwoofer is 7/8" larger than an average 6.5" driver as far as cut-out diameter goes.

302 pics are looking good B)

The 302 crossover comes in raw board form... the 307 crossover comes in a hand-made wooden box (as will the 327). Nick is going to offer the wooden box as an OPTION to the 302 set, though, since it cannot be included with the set as a standard item due to cost issues. I think the crossovers are kinda sexy in raw form anyway... I won't be boxing mine up, but they may end up hidden in my final install. For now they are sitting out in the open in all their glory B)

If the XR mid were to be install on-axis I may have to give them the edge in midrange detail... although very slight. But, again, we are after the in-door market with the 302 set so that is irrelavent. 1) The 302 has an entirely different midrange driver... the 307 set is more of an audiophile kick-panel oriented set. The 302 has more midbass than the 307, in part, since it is a much larger diameter driver and it has parameters VERY well suited for IB door installs. Most people, if not all, who use the 307 has a seperate midbass driver. The 327 midbass will be up there with the 302 set, since it moves up a cone size (still a little less area than the 302) -- but the 307 and 327 are a significant move up in midrange detail and dynamics. As has been stated, the 302 is for those of us who don't want kick-panels... it does it's job in a door. 2) I won't say exactly where they are crossed over... but it is almost a full octave lower than the XR set. The response graph also has a gradual rise up until the crossover frequency starting about where the driver beings rolling-off off-axis... this makes it pretty much flat when actually installed off-axis. Hence we list them for off-axis in-door duty only. I believe Nick is going to offer the option for crossover boxes with this set as well, like the 307 set. I'm not sure about pricing for the boxes. He's also got a few pics up his sleeve... hopefully he can get them ready for posting soon.

Sounds like a good Textile dome IMHO it is several steps ahead of the Audax TM025F1 tweeter... to me it captures all the detail of the XR tweeter without the fatigue. I simply prefer it to the XR tweeter... and I ran the XR tweeter for probably a year or more. In my car the only adjustment I have made on the tweeter so far is -2dB @ 8kHz with the narrowest Q I have and I believe this to be due to the way it is mounted in the door and not the response of the tweeter itself. Similar things happen when you don't flush-mount a tweeter in a home speaker project, and it's definatly not flush-mount in my car... heck, it's not even on a quasi-regular surface. Nick has heard more tweeters than I have if memory serves me, so he may have further comments for you.

I don't understand the question... at low volumes the sub isn't getting alot of power, it doesn't move that much. When you turn it up, and it gets more power... it moves alot. That is the normal behavior you should be seeing. Could you possibly elaborate on the issue?

Unfortunatly I haven't heard those setups to compare... But if that is the Autosound peerless CSC-X... to me it seems that the 302 set has better midbass. I've only heard the Peerless as a dedicated midbass though.

Which is perfect for an Fbody... 7 will fit in the door..... Where did you mount the tweeters in your car when listening? My tweeter is in the factory Firebird location.

Right, some people do not like the XR set for several reasons... but it is a very accurate set, in an objective manner. I think that, perhaps, the mid being crossed over so damned high might be part of the reason for your dislike of it. Seems to lack a bit of "attack" that other sets have... I suppose neutrality is the word for the sound. Alot of people really don't like that sound. On to your question... the 302 is NOT made for kicks. The mid is designed for Infinite Baffle, off-axis, installation ONLY. As for the 502 set, you will have to direct that question at Nick -- he is the man in charge of that set

Looking good there Steven

Entry level, meaning that they are below our 307 set. At this point we are thinking around $250 + Shipping for price. Power handling is right around 100-watts RMS. Size was listed in first post: 7" mid with 5 7/8" cut-out No, these aren't the only components. We have the 307s and upcoming 327s. I owned XRs for quite some time... while they far from 'suck' as you say (honestly, you must have heard a poor install) I prefer the 302 set to them for several reasons: 1) The XR midrange doesn't like alot of abuse... the 302 midrange doesn't mind it, plus the midrange driver in the 302 is nearly 'bottomless' -- I can't push the cone far enough down with my hand to bottom the coil. 2) The midbass is quite a bit stronger on the 302 set. They will handle a much lower crossover frequency than the XRs without issue. 3) The 302 mid is designed for off-axis performance, so does much better in a door than does the XR mid without EQ. The 5,000Hz crossover point of the XR set doesn't do much to help them off-axis in a door either (any 6.5" driver will be rolling off dramatically by then in a door). 4) The tweeter on the 302 set is a textile dome... which I prefer hands down to metal domes, even the XR aluminum dome which is very tame for a metal dome. It is much more laid back and natural to my ears. PS: Nick has heard my car with the XRs and with the 302s... so he may have further comments for you.

No, you did not read that incorrectly... it says 302. Today I built the final incarnation of the SI 302 crossover, Nick and I are both very happy with the result. The set uses a 7" poly-cone midrange driver (5 7/8" cut-out) and a textile dome tweeter. Some key features: - Designed for OFF-AXIS mid installation (door install) - Extremely strong midbass (50 - 63Hz X-over is no problem at all) - High power handling for an entry level set, rating pending * They are taking ALOT more abuse than my old XR set... I destroyed an XR mid in my car. Crossovers: 15-gauge inductors (massive) Low Tolerance Audio-Grade Resistors in Attenuation network Hand-picked combination of Metal Film, Poly, and Electrolytic Capacitors Crossovers were designed and built by myself -- all 302 crossovers will be hand assembled and tested by me The crossovers have gone through several incarnations and have been tweaked by listening tests done by Nick and myself. I have a large pile of spare crossover parts laying about that didn't make the cut... Hopefully we can get some pictures tomorrow... price is TBA. This is our entry level set, expect pricing under that of the 307 set. PS: This set is in my car... and is staying there. If that says anything to you.

Nick is always working too hard... heck, I can hardly ever pin him down and we are from the same town