sandt38

Stir up crap? Nah, you wanted an answer, and the only way to get one is to ask a question the only stupid question is the one that goes unasked I love that, as it is the truth.

I agree. I have been quite disapointed in drivers and still been considerably more tactful than that. I always point out the good things first, and follow them up with the bad. I thought his presentation was rude. Particularly from a factory rep. I'm still gonna slap you for that comment :boxin:

http://www.caraudioforum.com/showthread.ph...threadid=178260 Winslow is basting SI D2s on CAF. Jacob and I have stood up, but I think the other users of these drivers need to speak their piece as well.

Guess what? When these 2 pics were taken, the car was .01 of a mile beyond... 200,000 miles. I even got the pic of the odo as it crossed It still shines like a mofo too. 1986 Buick Grand National 485HP 550LbFt of torque turning 11.84@119mph in the quarter. Yes, it is a V6 My Brahma Moos Install with Brahma MKI, only the sub has changed. Notice the gainsetting screwdiver even matches the install. Adire Koda 6.1 set (Cadence ZXN6 grilles, custom door pods)

2 thumbs up Dave. Great amount of info in 1 spot. I have a stickeyed thread on CAT (we call it George, I linked it here for you) where we discuss everything from simple to advanced (although at this point we have reached beyond the simple on the thread) audio information. There was a question about all the TS params, explained in detail, yet simpple enough for the layperson to understand. I feel this is the finest example of that I have ever seen. Do you mind if I copy this and add it to that thread, giving you full credit of course.

Aside from a side view picture of it I have no idea . I've never actually had my hands on one. It looks awful bulky, looks like a big heat trap too. But as I say, I have never seen any close shots, or anything other than a side view, and I haven't been up close and personal with it. Even their site does a poor job of portraying the basket. Often times just a pic cannot display all the facts. But it is ugly And, AV man, you got some solid hate for Orion don't you? Wanna share why so much hostility? Orion and DEI make some great products. I am investigating a DEI 2500D to power up a pair of B12s actually.

What is it for? Structural integrity. Motor alignment. Motor support. Mounting. in some instances cooling. Think of how often it gets slammed around, the varying temps, the constant beating with the weight of the motor on there. It is more than just a basket, it is the skeleton. The human skeleton is often overlooked as uniportant too, but the average footfall of a 150 pound human exerts over 2 tons of stress on the bones and joints in the leg. Never overlook the seemingly simple things, they are usually the most important to the integrity of the final product

It is hard to just throw a basket out there and call it the best. Differant baskets will work well for differant applications. As far as a huge throw high powered driver, the 12 spoke is great. For medium powered and stroked drivers the Venezualen 4 spoke is great. In fact, the 4 spoke was great on the MKI Brahma. Unfortunately, the basket limited excursion due to spider/cone/tinsel collision in severe stroke playing. But this was only really evident on the 12, as the 10 had lower roll spiders and the 15s had more cone/spider clearance because of the basket depth. But I threw 1700 watts to mine in ported and sealed apps alike, with no heat issues at all. There is no doubt the 12 spoke is better for the driver overall because of the additional throw and the additional cooling. Thermal BL compression is reduced, but not vastly. But just because it is a better fit for 1 driver doesn't mean it is for another. Too deep a basket means a longer former, which to me is not a good thing. I'm willing to bet ED's choice on the Ven 4 spoke basket for the As was for that reason exactly. They had used the 12 spoke with the old cone design drivers, but the new piston drivers reverted to the Ven 4 spoke. IMHO, it was likely the best choice for the application. Blah, blah, blah. I go rambleing again... bottom line is, it really depends on what the driver in question is all about. Figure the design goals and a starting point, and build around it. Build it smart, not big.

The 12s lack bottom end terribly in a sealed enclosure. The QTS being borderline and the FS being quite low lead me to believe the 15 should do OK sealed. Not spectacular, but not too bad. I prefer over a .45 for sealed applications, but .4 is generally a widely accepted cutoff. Without actually calculating the EBP, but estimating quickly seems to put it as a borderline sealed favored EBP. I'd port it, just because of my experiances with the 12HC

Stoner, I have known you too long to call you cool

What did they determine? How are the subs wired? I hope it was series/paralell or they are overloading the amp.

Sup Greer B)

One sucking out and one sucking in is likely just that they are wired out of phase. Use a 9 volt battery to pop the subs and check polarity. It sounds like for some reason the amp is holding a DC signal rather than AC. If it is doing this with both subs hooked up, but not with 1 sub hooked up, my assumption is a thermal protect. Sounds like a bad load on the amp. That still doesn't make alot of sense that it would hold a DC signal for protect... that is very hard on the subs as they need movement for cooling. I'd check with a DVOM (DMM, whatever you want to call it) to ensure this is a DC signal. Run it with AC voltage selected, and keep an eye on the voltage, when it locks the subs down, see if it is emmiting an AC signal at all (I think not) then switch to DC on the meter. If it shows a DC voltage, shut that bad boy down fast, there is some serious heat building in them coils. If not, it is going into protect. Disconnect the subs from the amp and see what happens to them. Got a pic of the wireing, and some amp info? What is the coil config on the subs? Is it run series or paralel (judging by what you explain I bet series ), and what is the final desired load?

Try driving a 3.8 Vin 7

Me? Where did I ever claim that? *edit* Oh, I see where that came from. That wasn't me that said that. I have no information available to suggest anything about DEI/Orion stealing anything, so I cannot validate or negate the comment made above. I do seem to recall a suggestion about it elsewhere, but I believe Dan Wiggins quickly dismissed it. Maybe you have a link to the Orion/DEI Technology?

XBL2 at rest and 1 of the variances that are also patented under the same technology... Below the XBL2 architecture I have enhanced the cutaway of the motor listed above, to show the active pieces in the GTI "push/pull" topology. Please notice the position of the coils (blue) in the gap (relative to the red highlighted topplate). The upper coil has little room to move rearward within the gap, but the lower coil has generous space. And of course, vice-versa. That is a "push/pull" split gap system. The XBL2 shows the topplate and polepiece with the cutouts, and the coil resting squarely within the gap.

By the way, I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, I am just very passionate about Adire and their products

I'm not sure who you are talking to, but your claims of JBL working on the technology that Adire "stole" is totally outlandish and incorrect in itself. The 2 work on fundamentally differant principals. JBL's dual gap technology utilizes a "push/pull" technology and split coils. The larger coil area due to the dual coils increases inductance and reduces the quickness or transient responce of the driver. Granted, the JBL driver is very nice, but these are a couple drawbacks of the design. Below you can see a cutaway of the JBL and the dual coils in 2 gaps. Adires technology uses a single short coil that rides in 2 magnetic gaps. The dual gap is mearly a cutaway of the top plate that allows for greater controll of the single coil. The single coil allows for a lower inductance, and therefore a better TR. I'll get a pic to demonstrate this in a second.

^^ On that note, I am an AB ho though too

I'll second Geo on the Z7000. This thing is a damn monster. Mine benched out at 1688 (I just say 1700), and still remained as efficient as the BP1200.1 at wide open throttle. This is a class AB amp, running as efficient as the class D JBL amp pumping 300 watts less. Granted, class AB and D amps get closer in efficiency the more we push them, but a decent D still should be more efficien than an AB of the same (or in this case, greater) power. I have absolutely hammered this amp with 1 ohm in enclosed amp racks with no forced ventilation and have never had a thermal issue, or a popped fuse (130 amp). This is a direct link to the closed amp rack it is in. You can see no ventilation, and I assure you there are no fans anywhere except the 1 built into the amp (I have some internal pics if you guys want to see it). And I do live in the south, mad humidity and heat. This is one of the, no, I will correct myself... the nicest high current sub amp I have ever used.

I've run my Kodas full range IB at 100 watts. They took it like a champ down to about 30Hz, but bumpin a sweep I heard them stressing some. They are currently crossed at 50Hz, 12Db/octave. Sub is run at an 18Db slope and 60Hz. This is the first time I have crossed with an overlap and varying slopes. I used to be a straight up 70-80 Hz, 24Db slope. I'm not sure if it is the strength of the mids, and their ability to get crazy low, or the transparency of the Brahma, but this is really the best sound I have found for the car. What I guess I am getting at (sometimes I get long winded :boink: ) is the slope should not really be a big concern. If they go really low, really easily, a softer slope may work better than you expect. Plus, I have found with the settings as they are now, my woofer has totally dissapeared into the install. The stage was pulled further forward overall as well. The beauty of the JL is the switchability of the unit. 2 settings for input voltage, and 2 settings for crossover slopes. The settings for voltage are obvious benefits, but the ability to play with the slope and try what I mentioned above is priceless. You never realize how something so simple as that or variable phase capability will affect the system as a whole. The Arc is nice, but the ability to do so much more with the JL and the lack of required external capacitance both make it the sure winner in this battle of the amps in my eyes.

Adire will have some "superwoofers" coming out soon that will fit in the sub-$200 range. As soon as they do, I will post the info... (I love doing this )

If I had to choose? Look in my trunk. I have heard so many drivers in my time (I am a tad older than most here, I'll bet twice as old as most) and I have the best IMHO. As stated it is loud, and totally clean. It is more transparent than any other CA sub I have heard, and lightning fast. I love the ability of the driver tto run strong with such a wide range of enclosures and power levels. It's adaptability is one of the best I have ever seen. Ported or sealed it maintains composure like nothing I have ever seen. I am an Adire dealer, but it wasn't being a dealer that sold me on their products, it was their products that sold me on being a dealer. I bought the Shiva when it was the rage just for a goof, I have never permanently (I do play with several, as beta tests or just to play though) had any other company's subs in my car since. I bought a Brahma when they first came out, and I got the first MKII (pre-production) I have heard of (the MKII is the only unit I have not paid full price for, as when I purchased all the other units, I was not a dealer). When I bought the Koda 6.1 set I realized the dedication Adire had to providing fantastic products, and that is when I became an Adire dealer... 3 years after I bought my first Adire product. The Brahma is God.

Thanks fellas. Lot's of money, time, and hard work. Jordan, I have several websites featuring the car. If you wanna see more, just let me know. I have done some work to it in the last few years. Nice Z by the way

The Z and old orange Qs are very nice. Of course, the A series are great but most already know that. I have a few customers using the ZRS series and they love them. The Z series (and I have had my hands on almost all of them) are awesome amps for an awesome price. Below rated and tough. I know a of guy that runs his Z9000 rated 4 ohm stable bridged at 1 ohm for comps and 2 ohm daily. Like I say, solid.