95Honda

^^ I don't understand what you are saying, your post is kind of tough to read... Pro audio amps have loud fans, left unmodified they are annoying. If you change them out you can still hear them, just a lot less... I have used at least 10 of the 1000 watt P/E sub amps, both plate and rack-mount and both the original and subsequent series. You can't beat them for the price, especially if you don't have a lot of processing capability with your source components... I have a pair right now, they run my pair of XXX18's just fine, more than you could ask for really...

I have never had any issues with David Moore, he has always treated me great. He has built me several custom drivers, some are almost 10 years old... Like all else with car audio, a majority is based off of opinion instead of fact...

The box is the absolute worst place to mount an amplifier short of the engine block. If you must mount it there provide some isolation such as this: http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/topic/55861-a-well-though-out-15-mayhem-build/page-4

Pay close attention to the way they are spelled. You are talking about Rms, I am talking about RMS (also abbreviated rms). But again, manufacturers do not always correlate RMS (rms) to continuous power correctly, but they still intend a relation to thermal capacity (how much power the driver can dissipate before some kind of thermal failure). Quentin is trying to help people by rating his drivers with an RMS that approximates the total power needed to get the drivers to stroke in a particular alignment. His rating makes more sense to 99% of the users out there. It is just different than what is (has) been done for years. All I was pointing out is that if he called it something different, it would make more sense and cut down on confusion... Adire Audio used to post power charts for particular alignments, it let you know how much power you needed. They made a clear distinction between this rating and the RMS thermal rating.

RMS = Root Mean Square. It is an electrical mean or average. **And before anyone jumps on me for saying RMS is correctly used to measure thermal capacity by all manufacturers, I am saying it is NOT always used correctly. BUT, it is used in conjunction with some sort of thermal rating.**

Speaker manufacturers use RMS (Root Mean Square) wattage (derived from RMS voltage) to give a continuous thermal power rating over a given set of parameters. Some manufacturers don't correctly relate true RMS measurements into the continuous rating, but they are still implying a thermal limit, not an overall mechanical & thermal limit...

Your looking at the wrong RMS (Rms).

Quentin- You should really start calling it "Recommended Power" and keep the term RMS out of the equation entirely, I know what you are trying to do, but it gets confusing when RMS power is a thermal rating for everyone else... -Mike

I don't really have an opinion of the Amp Dyno, or any products made by your company as I have never used any. I would caution on a few of the points made in this thread though, the main one being head room and the burst testing. I worked for Audioprism in the mid to late 90's building tube amplifiers, pre-amplifiers and FM antennae. I did a lot of modification, measuring and design work while there. We tested many designs, both our own and many others. We built extremely high end, well measuring audio equipment. One of the things we were know for was complete solid state regulation of all power supplies (9 in each of our mono-blocks). This leads to an overall design with little headroom, as all full class-A amplifiers have (I have owned several Krell and PASS Lab amplifiers). These are also some of the arguably best sounding amplifiers in the existence, Stereophile rated our Audioprism Mana reference mono-blocks as Class A back in the day, or best of the best (in the world) in other words... This is why headroom is of little use to sound quality, unless you are constantly pushing the voltage output limitation of the amplifier. I guess my point is, don't get hung up on headroom. As Carver, NAD etc are OK amplifiers, they have never been know to sound great. On the flip side burst testing is done on many amplifier reviews out of the car audio realm and is a useful indication of maximum output levels, but not of sound quality. The nice thing about testing into a good, non-reactive stable load is that measuring is easy, and it makes sense on why you put your Amp Dyno together. I also understand the cost involved. I just think that the point of what it is intended for may get skewed because of marketing, I am not sure if that is a good thing or not.

Dealing with a reactive load gets beyond most people's measuring capability either due to basic skills or test equipment limitations. This is why it is left out of many discussions...

Additionally, the anealing makes it easier to work with. Not even remotely close comparing non-OCF to CCA. They shouldn't even be in the same sentence... I still don't understand why people buy anything but welding cable...

Search the forum for my descriptions of the gain control and you'll see why setting it at any position is OK...

Won't make any difference anyway...

^ Not really...

I see so many potentials for shorts just do to improper cable dressing... I am seriously surprised you haven't smoked one of the amps yet...

You can take the inputs you would get from most people with a grain of salt...

RMS is the thermal rating of the coil, if you read anymore into it than that, you are are wasting time... And it is the most useless spec of all... Any time a correlation is made between the RMS rating and "how powerfull a sub is" it is just asinine...

For the most part they are done or sponsored by manufacturers, and I don't blame them for this. They are just trying to keep people from blowing their drivers for whatever reason. I completed a full objective test on this back in 2003-4 ish. I published the results and people still to this day dispute the facts due to their bias for some reason or another. If someone else completes a test that is more objective than mine that disputes my findings then I will reconsider my position. Most people just based their opinions on clipping on gut feeling or what they have heard, almost nobody is objective and scientific about it... Fact is, if clipping really was that bad, everyone listening to hip-hop on FM radio at close to max volume would be absolutely melting down all their loudspeakers... BTW, I don't know where the article is, maybe someone can dig it up. It was call "the clipping effect test"...

Bro, no offense, but that wiring scares me. I cannot believe you don't have more problems. When you dress wiring as sloppily as that, you are just asking for issues...

If you are listening to FM radio, you are listening to heavily clipped signals... Watt for watt, clipped or unclipped, it makes no difference... Like Quentin said...

A few people on this board have asked me about group delay, I mention it from time to time. Here is a good primer Dan Wiggins wrote about it: http://www.audiodesignguide.com/Sub/SIGroupDelay.pdf Hopefully this will help some of you! -Mike

Good luck...

You don't owe me anything. A single 4" would probably be OK, you just need to see what the vent velocity will get up to. It would also probably be OK as long as you didn't go full retard with power Keep it well under 500 watts or something logical like that... I used to run Brahma 12's (28mm xmax) with single 4" Aeros per sub due to space limitations and they did surprisingly well... Another nice thing about the Aero is it is thin and doesn't eat up as much volume as a slot vent made of 3/4" MDF...

Just watch Iso loading with a box that is almost 2X a single driver's VAS, you can easily run into mechanical limits, especially with Qts as high as those drivers have... SSF filter will not just be useful, but 100% required...

I modeled for 33 Hz, not 24... You can get any volume at any tuning if you can accommodate the vent. Problem is, when you tune really low and have a lot of vent area the vent might eat up as much room in your cars as the actual enclosure does... It starts getting out of hand pretty quick. I'd go sealed or get different drivers. I really don't think they'll sound great vented, I haven't even looked at group delay, but I bet it isn't great, either... Honestly, with those drivers, if you had the skill, I would put one of them in a 4th order band-pass. If you don't have the skill, a pair sealed would be just about as good...