altoncustomtech

to the forum!

to the forum! Fi can be a little slow at times to respond to emails but that doesn't reflect anything on their quality. One thing that most don't realize is that they're really quite a small company. There's a handful or so of employees to do everything from building the subs to answering emails so sometimes it can take a little while for them to catch up on emails because they focus on the build process. Don't get hung up on numbers, you don't have to feed a sub full power to get it loud. The XCON or any sub for that matter can do very well on considerably less than it's rated power. The best thing you can do when running power that borders on the necessity for a stronger electrical backbone is to put a dedicated volt meter on the power terminals of the amp and watch the voltage. If it dips very much add a second battery securely mounted and connected near the amp and watch the voltage some more. If it gets fairly stable after that you're good, if it's still dipping then you may have to look into an HO alt. Keep in mind that every vehicle and it's charging system is different and with your Impala and the way the charging systems work on the modern GM's expect to see some voltage drop as it takes the PCM a moment to ramp up the output from the alt. I would consider the BIG 3 upgrade a necessity when adding any high drain equipment to the electrical system. The factory sized the electrical system for everyday use by the vehicle and the systems within it and added little headroom for extras. The BIG 3 essentially gives the grounds and charging wire a stronger backbone to operate with and even on the factory alt helps it charge better/faster under higher loads. No matter which sub you decide to go with be sure the enclosure is well built and designed. A great sub in a poor enclosure can be outperformed by a crappy sub in a great enclosure. I think a single 12 would be a great move for you as it will easy fit in your trunk and still offer a good deal of output. Well, that's my .02 worth for your questions so far and again, welcome to the forum.

Full ranges play just that, a full range of frequencies or at least a fuller range than most. It all depends on the driver and application but for instance in my Jimmy right now I have the Fountek FE85's playing from 200hz on up. The purpose is for the sake of imaging and stage to have one speaker playing the majority of the directional frequencies pointing directly at the listener, basically. They help to eliminate issues that you have with multiple drivers trying to play frequencies that are highly directional from different locations and frequencies that the drivers typically have a hard time to play properly. Typically that comes at a cost of a lessened very top end and while I will admit that the Fountek's can't quite nail 16khz and up like a tweeter can they sure as hell don't do a bad job either and it's more than good enough for me. As most 6.5" drivers start having response issues in the 2khz ish neighborhood and most car audio tweeters have a difficult time playing much below 3khz. Typically the manufacturers will have the 6.5 play up into the 3 to 3.5khz region to protect the tweeter and in most cases there's not enough issue with doing so to cause problems for the majority of users/listeners. Some exotic cone materials will have issues with response much earlier than that, others later but the point is the driver will suffer from beaming and cone breakup at some point in it's response. As for tweeters even the best ones do good to get below 2khz and typically won't get very far below. Even then they will often suffer from distortion issues at high listening levels because those frequencies are simply asking too much from the driver. These are the reasons why Sean and Brad are so adamant about driver placement, size restraints, etc. because those things determine what drivers can and can't be used for that application and then the compromises that have to be made to the response, stage, imaging, etc. to use the drivers that can fit the application. There's just no perfect world with this stuff, no perfect setup where everything is played perfectly. Compromise has to be made in every choice or decision and sometimes it's hard to REALLY understand just what that compromise ends up costing us sometimes until we hear it for ourselves. Most people are convinced that it's not a big enough concern to worry about it. Then again most people think we're blowing our money on this hobby anyway because what comes in the cars from the factory is good enough for them. That's just a matter of perspective, personal taste and drive.

Do you really care as the driver? lol In all seriousness it does affect how it sounds to the passenger, how much it affects it depends on the drivers being used, placement, etc. etc. etc. but when I demo the van or the Jimmy I always sit in the passenger seat and let the person I'm demoing it for sit in the drivers seat so they get the full effect. It's like anything else, it's all about compromise.

I hadn't before my buddy had informed me of it. This stuff should be available everywhere from everything I've found on it so far. I can't wait to try the stuff out. I've found several videos on it and they all tell me the same thing, "GO FOR IT!!" lol... I got the email back from the manufacturer and unfortunately the Percy's brand product is no longer being made so I'll have to go with another brand.

I've sent an email to the manufacturer hoping to get some literature on the products. I've watched a few videos on the same/similar products and it looks like it can do just what I'm looking for it to do.

Thanks, that was kind of the purpose behind the thread. I wanted to share my thoughts as I went through this experience, get help when and where I needed it and basically have something for anyone else who's looking into doing something similar to be able to reference. Of course everybody's tastes are different, vehicles and equipment change the outcome but I don't think it's bad reference just to start getting an idea on what a person could do and where to go with it. I'm a bit past the point of experimentation now though, at least as far as the full ranges and the continuation of the setup goes. I'm going to begin working on the permanent installation of the FR89's and the SLS's asap and then I'll go with that for a little while and if I feel the need to go further it will probably just be to go into building an enclosure in the door for the midbass. We'll see eventually but right now I just can't imagine it being a whole lot better than it is at this point, it's simply unreal.

That HU really doesn't have the crossovers, time alignment and EQ necessary to effectively operate an active setup. Now that does leave you in a great spot to use something like the miniDSP 2x4 with that HU and it only costs $105. You could connect the front out on your HU to the miniDSP and leave the sub out on your subs. Then run the mids on the Rockford and the tweets/full ranges on the Pioneer. It's all still above your budget but at this point anything other than a cheap replacement component set is going to be but this avenue is by far the least expensive route.

I wasn't really speaking to going active immediately, more as a short term goal to keep in mind. You could always get something to get you by for now and begin planning and working on an improved solution. Yeah it's not horribly cheap going active, but the drivers themselves are the lesser end of the cost. An active capable HU with at least as much processing power as the Clarion CZ702 would be a good place to start and it can be had for about $150 most places. I got the Fountek FE85's for $13.25 each at Parts Express and to listen to them no one has believed so far they only cost that much. The midbass would be a little different but you wouldn't have to get crazy spendy on them and you wouldn't necessarily have to get a 4 channel amp. Keep the P500 to start with and just get another smaller 2 channel to run the full ranges or tweeters depending on the active direction you decided to go. You don't have to go crazy buying things just to try out going active for the first time. I've spent a bit more than I should have but that was for my own experimentation to learn and grow on the subject.

I'm thinking that if you're used to listening to music like you do with the nearfield monitors then you're a great candidate for an active setup for sure. The imaging and soundstage from something like the full ranges and dedicated midbass setup I'm working on would bring a smile to anyone's face and especially to someone who produces music. IMHO I think this is an opportune time to re-evaluate your front stage and do something that will truly make you happy.

There's a BIG difference between the Faital's and the Anarchy's. Those Faital's are more of a midrange than a midbass and I think you're going to be very dissatisfied with the results you get from them. I'm not saying they're bad speakers, they have their purpose but for the application you're intending to use them in they're going to fall way short of ideal.

I've seen many an amp on the side of an enclosure. It's impossible to know if the few that failed had anything to do with being mounted to the enclosure but knowing the people who had failures and how they wired their shit up it had nothing to do with being mounted to the enclosure. That being said I love a good looking actual amp rack in an install. They can look so clean and gives it that much more of a custom look as anyone can just screw an amp to the side of a box. However that's not always possible when space issues are a constraint as they may be in your case. It took me awhile to figure out where to put and how to make the amp racks in both of my vehicles. Lots of measuring, examining, test fitting, etc. and while the one in the van was luckily pretty straight forward the one in the Jimmy went through a few iterations before I finally came up with a design that would work. All I'm getting at is sometimes you may have to think outside the box (pun intended) to get something that's truly unique. If all that isn't your cup of tea, time unavailable or the space just isn't available then it makes sense to go to mounting to the enclosure. Just my worthless .02 worth of opinion....

I searched the forum for any previous posts and information on this and came up empty handed so I apologize if this has been covered before. I finally talked to my buddy about the fiberglass stuff he was talking about that came ready to go, all you had to do was mold it around whatever it was you were using it on and let it cure. I found out that it actually cures in sunlight, or under UV light and has a wire mesh in it to help it hold it's shape. It's not horribly expensive either. I found 1 sq.ft. pieces for $24 at Jeg's of all places which I didn't think was too unreasonable considering it's got everything a person needs to make it work. I would imagine that by the time a person bought enough resin, hardener, molding supplies, glass mat, etc. to do the little sail panel pods I'm wanting to do that it would cost more than $48. Maybe not, but for the location and shape these are going to have to have at least doing the main part of the pod would likely be easier with the Hyperfiber. This is a subject I know VERY little about so some insight and help would be greatly appreciated by anyone who has fiberglass experience and especially experience with this product.

Thank you. It is a great feeling to finally know I'm heading in the right direction for sure. Having never played with 3" full ranges in a car audio setup with the dedicated midbass and having enough (just enough) DSP power to actually use and tune it was a little off putting and worrisome. Before I ever began on it I thought it would be too much work to even try it and see if it would work for me. I've been glad to find it wasn't all that bad and now that everything is ran and the infrastructure to support it is done the installation should be the only hurdle left.

Well, yesterday I got a few free minutes at the end of the day and used them to go ahead and hook up the Solid 2 to the Fountek's and the 125.2 to the Bravox mids to give it a shot with everything doing the duty it was more or less designed for. I set the DTA, crossovers and a little EQ adjustment and sat in for a listen for a little bit and that little bit turned into more than half an hour. I tweaked a little here and there but I was so happy with it I just couldn't believe what I was hearing. I'm heading in EXACTLY the direction I have been trying to find since I started to notice lackluster response in the components that was driving me nuts. The Fountek's were just as detailed and smooth as before but sounded fuller, more alive with the Bravox mids pulling midbass duty. The snap and punch wasn't quite as pronounced as one would like but they are only 6.5's plus I haven't EQ'd anything worth a damn yet. Then on top of all that the sub was blending perfectly with the Bravox's AND sounded like it was coming from up under the dash, the midbass sounded like it was coming from the Fountek's and my mind was officially blown. The only time I've heard music sound like that was when I was checking out vehicles in an SQ comp years ago. I absolutely cannot wait to get the SLS's and the FR89's mounted permanently in the truck so I can begin to really tune and enjoy the system!!

PM Sent my friend.

If you were a bit closer I'd just have you come over to where I work. We have a wonderful 4 bay heated garage there.

The FR89EX's and the SLS's came in yesterday. Damn the packaging is odd on those SLS's, lol. The pictures online of the SLS's do them no justice at all, I couldn't believe just how attractive they are. Very good looking drivers and the build quality on them seems top notch. The FR89's are very impressive as well. I would never have imagined I would see a 3" driver with such a substantial cast frame AND cooling vents (open frame) below the spider to boot. Preliminary finding on the fit of the 8's seems like I'll be able to put them in down there without hardly having to modify anything at all. Just a little plastic trimming on the panel and building a new baffle for it to mount to which is good news from a difficulty to integrate standpoint. It still seems as though my idea for building an enclosure into the door and using the current location of the tweeter for the port (if a ported alignment will work and fit) should all fit and look good together. The toughest part now is going to be building pods onto the sail panels to mount the full ranges. I would just put them up on the A pillars but due to the shape of the dash, it's height relative to the drivers location and the narrow width of the trunk/windshield as it is I don't think they would work as well there AND make it difficult to see in those directions while driving. Fiberglass, well I've wanted to learn for awhile now. Looks like it's going to be about like most other things I've learned to do over the years, just dive into it and hope for the best!

Ah hell, can't take the money with me when I go, may as well spend on it something fun now, lol. I love the fullranges so far. I've played them for two people, one is a fellow forum member who's local and I think he was impressed. The second is a co worker who's not really into this stuff but kept looking for more and more songs to listen to because he was liking it so much. Both liked it that much even without any midbass drivers which I thought really spoke to the quality of the fullranges and the sub to do what they could to cover that range. Thanks man, it didn't come out too bad. I'm loving the sound of the PR setup more and more. The XCON is an amazing sub too and I can't wait to play with a bigger one in the future. LOL, that's where I'm getting to.

to the forum. You've definitely come to the right place for information and learning.

That's pretty much what I had figured and am glad to hear I was thinking along the right lines. I knew either one over the 125.2 should make a difference, but I couldn't really see a big gain between the JBL and the PPI. Of course if I didn't already own the JBL I would just go with the PPI but I do and although it's not installed yet it won't take very much at all to do so. No wiring changes, no major rebuild just a quick bracket fab and a couple of RCA "Y" splitters to give each pair of channels on the amp the left and right signals accordingly and it will be ready to go. Then as far as the full ranges, the Solid 2 should still be plenty for them at it's 75 x 2 rating.

I could see where going from stereo to two bridged KX250's would make a difference, and possibly even from the KX250's to the P900, but would I really gain anything going from the JBL at 300 x2 to say the P900 at 450 x 2. We constantly tell people that more power is the least efficient way to get louder and we also tell them that they'll never hear any difference in a couple hundred watts. Granted that's when we're generally talking in the 1500+ watt neighborhood, but my question still stands. Would I really gain from that 150w difference, enough to be worth spending another $180 on an amp when the JBL is right here in hand?

We'll, I've already got the JBL on hand and getting it to mount up won't be any real trouble. Plus it is rated for 300wrms x 2 into 4 ohms so it could give the SLS's about 50% more than rated. I figured that's not too shabby of a place to start. While I'm not really expecting this to be the final iteration of the build in this truck it should all be a plenty good place to start. Going fully active, the FR89's, the SLS's, the XCON & PR's and all the work that's gone into it and will be going into it seems light years ahead of just the sub and a set of $150 components.

Would you say it would be worth the effort to change the amp rack and the 125.2 for the GTO1004? It's really not a considerable amount of work to do it or anything. Even if I do change the 125.2 out for the JBL I may still keep the Solid 2 for the full ranges. At this point I'm just not sure, lol. So many options. The FR89's and the 8's are scheduled to be delivered today. Woohoo!

No HU produces 50 watts of power. Sure they're rated 50x4 but that's MAX power and a completely useless rating. They're generally rated in the 15 to 22 watts RMS area but I would debate that they don't even give that much power. You could I suppose, better than nothing at all.