///M5

BTW, just read your power testing numbers on the JL 500/1. 714w is FAR from reality. You really need to stop claiming you are testing power, it is a shame. Now perhaps you understand why Walmart amplifiers have such high ratings.

Somehow this is the first I've seen this thread...and only read this page, but will follow now. I think you guys are all battling something that no one has yet referenced. It is all installation. That being said, I'd like to understand how you aimed your 3's, what processing you are using to correct for the anomalies of the install, and more specifically at what frequencies they sound weird. If you haven't yet, playing some warble tones in different frequency bins will help you isolate those frequencies. As with any speaker system having a single driver play as much of the frequency spectra as possible is a benefit, but that benefit can quickly degrade if you do not have them installed (read mounting, aiming, processing, deadening...) in the right way. From what I see/hear comment wise above I am sure this is the case. As for the TG9, Scan comments that Adrian made above. I'd also put those comments in the same category. The 15m can be well worth the difference; however, the TG9 is a lot more forgiving and easier to play with so regularly it may be a better choice. And yes, those SLS should have more on the bottom end, but they roll off so fast you will NOT be able to use them with a large format tweeter. Perhaps a big 2" tweet/mid, but not just a tweeter.

Cool, we are getting somewhere. What do you need to compensate? If you have anomalies, then lets get them! The pxe can correct for time alignment and phase, but I have never heard it work in a way that I find beneficial. Depending on your skill and ears though it could be better than you'd do on your own. I am curious as to the high noise floor comments. Not only curious but surprised. What are you hearing? Is it a hum, buzz, white noise, pink noise.... Either way the PXE couldn't do anything for that at all, but I am not sure it exists but instead might be caused by something else you are doing in your install. My wives Audi was really pretty tight in that regards and every S4 I've been in hasn't had any noise issues. I'll give you one hint. If the noise wasn't there in the stock setup then it isn't caused by the headunit. Yes the MS8 is better, but not sure you need that. Could you use it? Sure, everyone could, but I am a big proponent of only spending money when you need to for an actual improvement. It is a lot of dough to just get an EQ.

Of course if they are seasoned right and dry, you better not have salt in your sauce.

Actually not worth it. Just put NOTHING in the back and you'll be golden. Rear speakers in a 2chn setup just create a mess and don't help. Take that budget and put it into the fronts and you will be way happier.

I am a rub only guy. No sauce period. If they aren't good dry, they aren't good ribs...even if you are into sauce.

I burnt the gasket out on mine doing pizzas, found a new gasket online that was stable to 1750 deg F. In the process of breaking in the adhesive and gasket before cooking on it the first time, I managed to get the grill so hot that the temperature gauge on the outside of it exploded. After letting it cool down I noticed that the inner edges (ie the part exposed to the inside of the grill) had melted. You want to sear? I think I can get a finish on something rather fast.

Win! i bet your dad would love it! I'm trying to convince him but he thinks that he has "plenty of grills" (we do have to nice size pits, an electric smoker, a descent gas grill and old smokies.) and that he can "sear" just fine with what we have and he said something about having an open pit or some bs for searing... I dunno Insert Sean and dem beats (Sean as well?) perfectly crafted argument please... Plenty of suck doesn't make anything good. - electric smokers are pretty useless, read the train of discussion with Nick. The key to a good smoker is not just smoke, but holding a temperature extremely consistent. There is a reason people use computers to control fire pits in competitions. You need the right amount of heat without going over to effectively break down the collagen. Obviously the time you have helps determine the heat, but when the goal is low and slow keeping it there is huge. - I see nothing that he has that can sear at all. Perhaps he's never had a truly seared piece of meat. I'll give you a hint. If your broiler in your oven gives you the best finish, then the grill you have is nearly useless for steaks. Good luck EVER making a pizza. A real za needs around 700degF to be happy in the crust. - Old smokies CAN be effective (assuming you mean something like the WSM) but require heavy modifications to hold heat. Usually a $300 computer controller as well. I had a pit, a WSM, and my Viking C4 (BGE but stainless) all at the same time. One meal on the Viking and I gave the other two smokers away. No comparison at all. On top of that it has EASILY paid for itself. You may ask why? If you can't do better at home what the restaurants do then you eat out. I don't really eat out as that is RARELY the case. There are some exceptions, but not in BBQ. I'd also put my Que up against any all over the country. Yes I've spent a ton of time in Kansas/Missouri, Texas, and the Carolina's. I make better brisket, butts, and ribs then I have had anywhere. Again every now and then an exception, but it is rare and never repeatable. The exceptions I do go to are either Asian or Nouveau Cuisine which I use to explore ideas and flavors while enjoying dinner. One gas grill and a ceramic smoker is all you need. If you feed a ton of people two ceramics and a big ass gas grill will do. You will notice in my response to Nick I said oven/grill, but then never recommended the grill to him. My gas grill WILL hold 225F and fluctuate less than 10deg so I can actually smoke/grill/Q on it. It has a couple smoke boxes with their own burners. Amusingly it turns out better BBQ than my pit did, and almost as good as the WSM. Nothing replaces natural lump, but that is about as close as it gets. I only use it to finish, reheat, or cook other things though. I used my pit regularly like I recommend Nick to use his Troeger. Get smoke in and then finish later. When ribs were on sale I'd smoke 10 racks and then freeze them. They'd get a finish roast / carmelization on the grill later.

Maybe the temp might be off? That's my first knee jerk thought. I NEVER put water in my smoker. Maybe the BGE keeps in more moisture. It does. If you have a Weber Smoky Mountain or similar sometimes some liquid CAN help.

TOP

Hey now, Homeaudioforum.net has a cooking section. Make me answer there.

The temperature on the Traeger could very well be hottest near the temperature gauge. My temp is at the grates where the meat is. I suspect yours is off for that reason. If it were ceramic or held the heat better than steel it may be different. On top of that, I bet the temp gauge is a piece of uncalibrated crap. Sure was on my barrel smoker. Might very well be your trouble. And yes, I am sure that mine is right, well at least within 2 degrees which I'll call right. 15-20 I would not. Do they gasket mod the Traegers? If so, I'd do it. The more you make it convection the more even it will be. Otherwise you'll always be chasing hot/cold spots in it. I'm positive the temp gauge isn't good. I've stuck other thermometers in there and they are always different. But the smoke setting on the Traeger is a little tricky, because it's not a constant heat. On that setting the auger starts and stops, only ushering in pellets every few minutes. The temp gauge might not be right, but you can definitely watch it fluctuate over a 10-15 minute period by as much as 20-30*. Also, these traegers have two holes on the backside, each about 1.5" tall and 3" wide. But I fear if I plug these up it will make the inside much too hot since the settings are just based on pellet feed rates, not a temperature gauge setting. The temperature gauge is at the top, right in the middle of the barrel. Ouch. How cold can you set it? Will that make the fluctuations worse if you lower it? The lowest is the "smoke" setting, which is supposed to be either 225 or 250 degrees, I forget. But even on a warm day outside if you watch the temp gauge provided on the grill, the temperature fluctuates between something like 170 and 210 degrees. But I believe that to be biased low by about 20 degrees. Two choices. 1) Try and understand what your smoker is doing and make it right, or 2) Give up on making it right and finish in the oven/grill. 1) Get a real temperature gauge. I'd suggest something with a replaceable thermocouple so that as you wear it out you can cheaply replace it. Will be useful the rest of your life. The other option of course is to get something cheap that you can throw away when it breaks...and it will break. Once you have a gauge get them going at 225-250 at the GRATES and then see what 4 hours does. Considering you like them to fall off you may need to go to as much as 8 so start in the morning and plan to eat either at noon or for dinner. And yes Matt's recommendation of putting them in a cooler to steam/rest for an hour will make them more tender. It will also tenderize the bark so you have to choose the trade-off. 2) Smoke the piss out of them as low as you can for as long as you do. I asked if you could go lower because cold meat absorbs more and slow is your friend. If I am going to finish in the oven/grill/braise I would smoke closer to 170F, in all reality 140F would be fine but I've never tried to hold a temp that low. At low temps you will get no transformation of collagen and will have chewy nasty meat, but if you are going to break that down later I'd just use the smoker for smoke. Then you can finish in the oven/grill wrapped in tinfoil with some braising liquid. I have a tendency to use wine or stock, but adding some acid like Matt does helps for sure so don't just use water. Do you have a decent oven? If so, you can baseline yourself reasonably well. Toss a rack in the oven, roast at 225 and see how long it takes to get done. Knowing what you like is key to getting your Que to turn out right. In order to not waste the ones you roast in the oven, I'd suggest marinating them in some asian "juice" before hand and giving yourself a completely different rib experience. And no, I've never done either, just thought of that now but it is making me hungry.

Smoking WILL do that, just has to be the right temperature and right time. Amusingly, I smoked a couple racks for dinner tonight. I pulled mine off before they got that sloppy as I like to have to pull them off the bone with my teeth, half the fun of ribs. They should pull easily though Try 225 for 4 hours. Longer is okay, but then lower the temperature. I like mine to hold onto the bone a little longer too. I did 3 racks last weekend and they tasted like magic. I used the 3-2-10 method though and made a sweet plum wine BBQ glaze. Alton's method is too sugary...but he is a Southerner so what do you expect. Considering your bias towards Paula Deen I am not surprised you like it though. Nothing wrong with it, just not my thing which you could probably tell from my cake posts. I use about equal parts brown sugar to other rub ingredients so WAY less.

Exactly. Chat in the hop, its what it is for. Not if its "serious" though

Honestly, it wasn't to sugary.. the butter cuts the sugary taste. I haven't met a cake with frosting that looks similar that I can eat. I pretty much eat almost no sugar though.

Never seen such a lopsided basketball score

Then the numbers are off even further. Real world subjective distortion value chosen where your ear is the least sensitive to distortion isn't a particularly good idea. You'd be surprised how crappy your ears are there compared to in other frequencies.

I saw someone using something that picked the ball up too. I thought that was ingenious in particular if you have a slobbery dog.

The temperature on the Traeger could very well be hottest near the temperature gauge. My temp is at the grates where the meat is. I suspect yours is off for that reason. If it were ceramic or held the heat better than steel it may be different. On top of that, I bet the temp gauge is a piece of uncalibrated crap. Sure was on my barrel smoker. Might very well be your trouble. And yes, I am sure that mine is right, well at least within 2 degrees which I'll call right. 15-20 I would not. Do they gasket mod the Traegers? If so, I'd do it. The more you make it convection the more even it will be. Otherwise you'll always be chasing hot/cold spots in it. I'm positive the temp gauge isn't good. I've stuck other thermometers in there and they are always different. But the smoke setting on the Traeger is a little tricky, because it's not a constant heat. On that setting the auger starts and stops, only ushering in pellets every few minutes. The temp gauge might not be right, but you can definitely watch it fluctuate over a 10-15 minute period by as much as 20-30*. Also, these traegers have two holes on the backside, each about 1.5" tall and 3" wide. But I fear if I plug these up it will make the inside much too hot since the settings are just based on pellet feed rates, not a temperature gauge setting. The temperature gauge is at the top, right in the middle of the barrel. Ouch. How cold can you set it? Will that make the fluctuations worse if you lower it?

Funny. My mail is delivered by the Wayzata post office. Even funnier since the population of Wayzata is only around 4k. 5 minute boat ride to the bars there.

Without it surely makes none.

I'll remove this post later and your response. Do you want the for sale portion broken back out? I feel this should be moved, but didn't want to squash the for sale ad.

Well beyond the decimal place, your tens place is also inaccurate and by a crapton. Your "point" of testing is no more accurate than having two amps and listening to them an hour a part and picking a power level for each. For all I know your idea of "usable" is 30% distortion, hell if it is on a sub I would suspect that there are more people with their subs near 30% than near 0.07% in this world. By a landslide. As an aside, you also left frequency out of the equation. Do yourself a favor, grab anyone you don't know off a forum that lives near you and have them do the exact test you did. If it is truly a blind test the results won't even be within 25% of your numbers. Subjective or scientific. You can't have both and you chose subjective. Just don't put a number by it as it tells the internet nothing. If you want to do scientific then by all means I would love to go out of my way to support your site. The internet could use a site like that, but beware as we are just barely touching the surface of what is truly required to make it repeatable AND real.

Interested in what you used for a consistent load as well as how you measured the current and distortion. I wonder if I should repost our discussion from the for sale thread? Could move it or merge the threads if you like. I posted this here a day before responding in your for sale thread.

I'd start with your mounting locations and how much energy you are willing to put into the install including processing etc... Also don't pick your slopes now, if that is your goal you should just run passive