///M5

You have a hell of a driveway. I would hate that thing in winter. Amusingly about 5x a year I have to get my friends (usually their girl friends) unstuck in their FWD cars. So far no RWD has ever slid off the driveway and needed to be dug out. Torque steers a bitch. And they even have crappy cars with shitty balance putting a ton of weight on the front. Bad comparison, Operator error. How Do I know that out of all the people that drive up your driveway other than you, Even drove RWD. Concidering more cars are FWD nowadays the odds could be stacked on that one. An unloaded truck has worse weight dispersion than a FWD car. More of my friends drive RWD, so your logic fails. I know it was operator error as they started to lose traction they kept trying to drive up. In a RWD car that would have been fine, but the torque steer on the FWD dumps you into the snowbank. The good ones stop when they start to slip, put on the e-brake and come get me out of the house. That has happened a plenty as well.

If you argue, realize you are arguing with Sir Isaac Newton and not me. His 2nd law is all you need to know to prove yourself wrong.

I'm confounded by that logic. Lets make a different example (same physics). Go outside and fill a sled with wood and try to push the sled, what happen's? Now pull on the same sled, what happens? I think it has NOTHING to do with different muscles, Just the fact that the force is being applied in the most effective place. If it is still Physics explain how the force vector is different. I can make this simple. If you apply X force in the Y direction on the same object it will move the same whether you are pushing or pulling.

Baffle, bunch of rings, anything solid and massive. In my truck I had no space for a baffle so a ring was all I used, but I added mass and isolation with modelling clay. Plenty of methods of doing this, but it will depend on the space you have.

Definitely keep it in your signature and definitely announce it when you win. Everyone will be happy for you. Just don't use it as a reason for what your answer is in a thread. Answer technically and you don't need to rationalize anything with competition.

I never implied he shouldn't be proud, just shouldn't use whatever achievement he has to promote what he has for gear. Instead use technical arguments and everything is fine. You also have nothing to feel responsible for that is bad. You brought someone here who stands a chance to learn a great deal and hopefully can evolve to even find this place to be a home. I was serious when I said I have absolutely no beef with him. When his or anyone's comments are out of line I will call them out, but that surely doesn't mean its personal.

I have an 02 Silverado and don't think it would be so hard in my truck. Once you take your interior out once you will see what you will be cutting. Not such a big deal. A simple mock up with a cardboard box would go a long way towards letting you see that. As Impious said, mini-horns will still get you the output just won't dig as low.

I understand headroom which is why I asked the question. He could have easily replied differently but instead implied that his drivers could take that much power. I'd normally agree, however, it sure seems deliberate and always to make a point. The worst form of response on any forum is that I know because I compete. Explain yourself. Everytime there is a good thread made I respond well, perhaps I do react aggressively when the threads aren't made well. The one thing I have ALWAYS done is called out things that were blatantly incorrect. I will try to temper the reaction, but seeing the quality of the questions that occur on the forum go steadily downhill frustrates me to the core. Exactly the reason that the Terms & Conditions exist. I think if you truly look at where I respond in such it is either to correct horrible misinformation or at some blatant refusal to try to write something in such a way that others could actually help. I have NO issue with Randal at all and think he could easily find a home here, but he is going to have to realize what he thinks he knows and what he knows are two completely different things. I also think the only reason you'll feel you get run over is that you invited Randal here and he has made it very hard on himself. From the get go he showed up as someone who just wanted to pimp equipment claiming superiority over EVERYTHING else without any background knowledge to back it up. This is absurd as there is no such thing and it really pisses me off as it is a blantant and intentional lie. There is no "best" speaker, amplifier, or what not although there surely is a "best install" for parameters set by needs and budget. I would encourage Randal to post, but to NEVER say anything about the fact that he is a competitor and to never say that the Blues Audio or LP drivers are the BEST solution for anyone. Instead try to focus on things for their specific install that could help them. I would also encourage him to make a real build thread as I guarantee that there are plenty of us on here that could help him improve his score in a MAJOR way. Continuing on topic, I'd be curious on the required major surgery. Not that I doubt it, but it really will be the best solution for the NCSU's needs.

Deft sanding sealer first, then paint.

You have a hell of a driveway. I would hate that thing in winter. Amusingly about 5x a year I have to get my friends (usually their girl friends) unstuck in their FWD cars. So far no RWD has ever slid off the driveway and needed to be dug out. Torque steers a bitch. And they even have crappy cars with shitty balance putting a ton of weight on the front.

Huh? That is an E46, if you look hard you can find one for $10k. $15k would buy you a very nice one. Amusing, FWD is a No-Go for me or my wife. No way, no how. I don't need understeer in the snow. I'll take a well balanced RWD ANY day of the week in inclement weather. Guess I need to look at the badge better. I will take the getting pulled felling anyday over the getting pushed. I own 3 4wd's and still drive my Honda all winter except for the very worst days. I like how I can over/understeer with the throttle and really turn with the e-brake. Huh? Why would you EVER want to understeer. The e-brake will work in any drive format. In a RWD you can turn with the throttle, with front you CANNOT. I will take the weight over the drive tires anyday. A fwd turns harder when the steering tires are also pulling, NOT just getting pushed where the weight of the vehicle is getting pushed. I have never been to MN but I can only imagine it must be pretty flat, because You won't get very far with RWD only here.(the ditch) Hmm, you really need to open your mind. By FAR the best winter car I have ever driven (outside of snow clearance) was a naturally aspirated Porsche 944. Perfect 25% weight in each corner with a nominal driver. That is ALWAYS the best way to have traction. Putting the weight over the fronts does not help you turn, nor does it help you stop, it also makes it easier to spin. The ONLY advantage of FWD is the same advantage that 4WD has that puts everyone in the ditch. From a dead stop perhaps you can accelerate faster. To me turning and stopping are MUCH more important in inclement weather. MN is flat, but not all of MN and RWD doesn't get you in the ditch not knowing how to drive does. Going off the road accelerating is pure operator error, going off because you can't stop or turn isn't. There is no way you can argue that FWD is better for either of those. Little history piece for you as well. FWD exists as it is cheaper to manufacture and for an average person they don't notice the difference. So some manufacturers choose to save money and compromise on all areas of performance. Others choose to do the opposite and refuse to cut that big ass corner. You probably drive all automatics too, but that doesn't make them better. I use the gears to slow down on ice and snow, NOT the brake's. A RWD car's ass will slide side ways a soon as the you start up a hill, a FWD will go where the tire's are pulling it. As an example Sean, When I am stuck on a snowmoble, I can have a single person pull a front ski to get me moving and or it would take several people pushing from behind. Simple Physics is the reason for FWD not cost. A FWD or AWD car will handle and corner better than a RWD anyday. Believe me brother I am the FARTHEST from close minded person you will ever meet, But I do like a good debate. Bad analogy, or at least from a Physics perspective. The reason pulling on the skis help is that you lift them and you use different muscles. It takes the same force to move the same mass from either push or pulling direction. Think of the force vector, they are identical if the same force is used. Actually it is 100% cost. Cars didn't require a frame that went FWD. FWD will NEVER corner as well as an RWD. Perhaps you know of some front drive race cars? As for the ass sliding sideways this is unrelated to which wheels are driving, but the fact that you are out of traction. If you have cars that are equally balanced (ie 25% at all corners) and you are trying to drive straight up a hill the RWD will just spin and the FWD car will torque steer causing you to go off the road. If you have an unevenly balanced car, well then it is going to handle like shit no matter what you do as that is always a bad idea.

The meter has a capacitive display. IE there is a time constant or smoothing that is occurring. In other words, really fast voltage spikes in either direction it won't see. Volts are dropping, you just aren't measuring it. And yes, I am sure you are clipping your amp. No way that isn't at 1200w. On a real load with a distortion tester that amp will not produce its rated power. Set it at 1000w and see if your problem still exists. Conveniently for you, there is NO AUDIBLE difference between 1000w and 1200w anyways.

And you HP them at 40Hz per your other thread. Those must be some seriously monster midbasses. Huh? By that do you mean they are at the minimum or the maximum or not? Also curious how you measured "200w" without setting your gains. Do you actually know anything about your own install other than what drivers and amps you have? So far every time you post it sure seems that you are just regurgitating marketing garbage about something you have very little understanding about. Now why is this on topic? Sorry to NCSU, but I really wanted to make sure that either when he read his thread or anyone else searched and read this that they realized that your recommendations are not even in the ballpark. Your drivers WILL not take 200w at 40Hz. Send me one, I'd be glad to measure at what power you will be mechanically running out of excursion and guarantee it will be significantly lower than 200w. Don't expect it to be working when it returns. On the same note, your front stage isn't loud. If you truly think it is you really don't understand what loud is. You think its loud because you've compared to other things that aren't loud. Those drivers will NOT help the OP. NCSU you are stuck in a hard spot. Fitting the horns under your dash will indeed give you what you look for, but will require some modifications to make them fit. I'd seriously contemplate those mods and see if you can find a work around. Other formats of horns aren't going to achieve your other goal of not ripping your head off. Small format and horn is just not a good idea. There is no real commercial application for them so they just haven't been developed and engineering wise it wouldn't be trivial. Look at your car again and do it with a measuring tape. See if you can make them fit. If not, we will have to contemplate a different path.

Vertical cues will come from your tweeter so higher than sail can be preferred, but if it is a serious pain in the ass ALL car installs are already based on tons of compromises so it is just one more...of course the sail isn't that much higher than your original mounting location. Hard to say if the payoff of mounting them higher is better than the payoff of using a large format tweeter. The one advantage of the sails/pillars is that it will be much easier to aim and that I am sure will help as relying on non-even off axis responses from two drivers to magically work well at your ear level isn't really something I'd count on. I guess if your question was a yes/no I think I just said yes.

Randal, do you ever answer a question. I asked a very simple, yes or no question.

It definitely isn't picking up the drops. Ford Explorers are not notorious for having such sensitive bulbs so I'd imagine you are getting quite a drop. As for the voltage you measured, it would be good to know the impedance of the load (ie calculated power). If you set the gains to the rating of the amp, you are into clipping as that amp will not do power without.

Oh, and my driveway is far from flat.

Thanks Neal, I'll be out picking up a colleague at the airport but will check my email.

Huh? That is an E46, if you look hard you can find one for $10k. $15k would buy you a very nice one. Amusing, FWD is a No-Go for me or my wife. No way, no how. I don't need understeer in the snow. I'll take a well balanced RWD ANY day of the week in inclement weather. Guess I need to look at the badge better. I will take the getting pulled felling anyday over the getting pushed. I own 3 4wd's and still drive my Honda all winter except for the very worst days. I like how I can over/understeer with the throttle and really turn with the e-brake. Huh? Why would you EVER want to understeer. The e-brake will work in any drive format. In a RWD you can turn with the throttle, with front you CANNOT. I will take the weight over the drive tires anyday. A fwd turns harder when the steering tires are also pulling, NOT just getting pushed where the weight of the vehicle is getting pushed. I have never been to MN but I can only imagine it must be pretty flat, because You won't get very far with RWD only here.(the ditch) Hmm, you really need to open your mind. By FAR the best winter car I have ever driven (outside of snow clearance) was a naturally aspirated Porsche 944. Perfect 25% weight in each corner with a nominal driver. That is ALWAYS the best way to have traction. Putting the weight over the fronts does not help you turn, nor does it help you stop, it also makes it easier to spin. The ONLY advantage of FWD is the same advantage that 4WD has that puts everyone in the ditch. From a dead stop perhaps you can accelerate faster. To me turning and stopping are MUCH more important in inclement weather. MN is flat, but not all of MN and RWD doesn't get you in the ditch not knowing how to drive does. Going off the road accelerating is pure operator error, going off because you can't stop or turn isn't. There is no way you can argue that FWD is better for either of those. Little history piece for you as well. FWD exists as it is cheaper to manufacture and for an average person they don't notice the difference. So some manufacturers choose to save money and compromise on all areas of performance. Others choose to do the opposite and refuse to cut that big ass corner.

I looked at over 300 houses before buying mine. Took a few years... I thought we were bad looking in the +50 range. =) Part of it was me interviewing realtors. Open house Sundays was a scheduled event for nearly 3 years.

By have do you mean you use 400w? And yes I already know the answer which makes your recommendation even worse.

I might lean towards a smaller format in the pillar. The door issue is multi-fold. Way different pathlengths, off axis, not right next to the mid, and not high enough to elevate your stage. Depending on your fab skills the A-pillar solves at least one of those.

And Goodnight.

IMO, there are only 2 choices in cars. AWD and RWD. Anything else should never be sold in any climate.

<--also doesn't ever engage the 4wd in his truck *except to get up my driveway I MUCH, MUCH, MUCH prefer to drive the M5 in the winter, but don't want to subject it to winter. Solution is easy though. Sell the car and truck and buy a different RWD car.