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cruzer23

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Posts posted by cruzer23

  7. Posted

    yeah well i had to kicker cvr in the same box before and they sounded fine and they recommended a whole lot of space for the sealed applictaions. Maybe if i ran two they wouldnt have all the space they need but i have the box filled with polyfill so maybe they will be ok?

    with a smaller box, ur low end will suffer. if thats ok for you, then go for it.

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  8. Posted

    seems 1.76 is too big for a single 12 sealed, too small for two 12s sealed. at least for those u mentioned.

    FI Q says .8 sealed, so two of them would be below the 1.76, or 1.78 u have

    tho there isnt much difference between .8 and 1 cubic foot, maybe someone can tell u if it will be a big difference or not, or if the subs suggested for 1 cube would not sound optimal in the smaller box.

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  9. Posted

    it was in 2008, the thread that i read. not sure with the xxls came out, but they were comparing the xbl2, lambada, and xls motors. xls was good, but wasnt excellent like the other two and featured over double the inductance, features less xmax, less power handling, etc. etc.

    no one is saying its bad, but its not that good compared to others. ill take the peerless xls or xxls just because it has a flat bl curve which gets rid of 70% of distortion alone, more than say the FI Q does...

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  11. Posted · Edited by cruzer23

    You can not school me on xbl^2 technology. Look at my forum, I am working with ADI at the moment building several lines. If you can expand my knowledge of xbl technology more than the man who invented it, the same person I have been working with over the past two years, be my guest.

    The point I was making is if you keep whatever sub you buy BELOW XMAX which is defined by 10 percent total harmonic distortion you will not have distortion. Does this mean sub A will be as loud as sub B. NO. But they will have the same amount of distortion or lack there of because that is what XMAX means.

    Keep in mind there is more to it than THD. A shift in Bl and/or Cms will also affect the parameters of the driver, which will in turn affect the response of the driver. Some people consider a linear design that decreases the parameter shift more important in subwoofers than the distortion lowering mechanisms involved as we are less sensitive to distortion in this bandwidth. A properly handled inductance is likewise important for reasons other than distortion, as an improperly treated inductance can likewise affect or limit response within the intended/necessary bandwidth.

    I'm sure you already know all of this, and probably more than myself in regards to driver design. There's much more to the discussion but that really isn't pertinent. My simple point is that I think it's wrong to focus the discussion solely in terms of THD.

    That said it doesn't necessarily take an "exotic" motor design to achieve these goals. For example, companies such as Peerless and Scanspeak have consistently built high performance drivers without much in the way of "exotic" motor designs. A well executed standard motor topology can be designed to be more than sufficient at supporting a high performance loudspeaker.

    And while peerless makes great subs and all, its still proven that they are not as well designed as a sub featuring a flat bl curve. However, they do use shorting rings, and pole extenders to lower and linearize inductance. Where are these designs in subs that claim to be SQ like the FI Q? They are non existent. Yet 90% of any car audio forum will sit there and defend it and say its a GREAT SQ sub. While it does sound solid, it lacks anything special enough to be considered a SQ sub imho.

    i took more measurements and if im going to fit two 8" subs its going to have to be mounted at the back, just in front of the rear seat as thats 9" wide. between the driver and passenger seat where the actual console is, its only 8", minus 1.5" for wood, and it just wont happen. ill upload pics in a minute

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  12. Posted

    lol im not scared to admit im wrong, i very well may be, but i have to have proof. i dont know a whole lot about car audio, i still have tons and tons to learn. i just read what i have and it makes sense to me in my opinion.

    guess ill just do the 8s console, try some sundown 8s then if i dont like them go for something more sq oriented, or vise versa

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  13. Posted · Edited by cruzer23

    should read the link i posted, here is part of it

    "I hear all the time that it's all about putting the woofer in the right box. If it's put in the right box any woofer can sound good. While it is important to put the woofer in the right box, there are things that won't change no matter what box you have. You will always have non-linearities in the woofer that make it sound different at higher levels. As you put in power you get thermal distortion issues and the large distortion issues due to flux modulation. As the driver moves to high excursions you get variances in inductance and you get decreasing motor strength. If the woofer has not addressed these issues in the design stages, no enclosure is going to correct them. Attention should be paid to pulling heat from the coil quickly, lowering and linearizing inductance, providing a symmetrical BL curve, and lowering flux modulation. While the woofer needs to be in the right enclosure, a woofer that addresses all these issues and is put in the right enclosure will always be able to more accurately reproduce the signal input to it than a poorly designed woofer in the "right" enclosure. "

    why is there too much thought into this? i didnt put much thought into sitting the subs on the back seat, and they fly around everywhere, hitting the seat, hitting the doors, thats not putting enough thought into it...

    i wanted to do at least a single 10 ported, but i just cant figure it out. the box design i posted was going to net me around 1.1 cubic foot for a single 12 sealed, but no where does it open up enough to fit a 12" sub, only an 8.

    @denim, send me a 10" icon and ill buy a 10" ae av from diyma and we will find out :)

    whats the deal with keeping a sub under xmax? if u port a sub, ur supposed to use a SSF, its common knowledge. if u go sealed, 90% of the time u wont need a SSF, but its still safe to use one.

    Who uses their subs over xmax? spl guys? those guys dont care about sq.

    i emailed jacob about his sa-8s he said the only thing they got going for them sq wise is the hefty xmax. otherwise i would be better off waiting on his x-8. he didnt say the sa-8 would sound bad, nor do i think it would, but its not made for sq plain and simple

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  15. Posted

    Im not trying to "school" you on the xbl2 technology, clam down...

    so an xbl2 sub under its xmax, vs a sundown, fi, ssa sub under xmax, there is no difference in SQ or distortion?

    Why waste money on the xbl2 motor then? why not keep it simple and use a standard motor?

    and as far as the shiva goes, i was just refering to its rating, thats the only rating they give. it doesnt say give it 500 rms, it just says its thermal abilities.

    however if u want to get technical, here is what is posted directly on their website, in their application pdf

    "The Shiva-X2 is happy with any combination of 1-2

    cubic feet for automotive applications. Fill the box with 100% polyfill (16oz. Per cubic

    foot of box) and power it with 500-1500W @ 4-ohms and you will be rewarded with

    incredible high-quality bass."

    Would they be stupid enough to tell u that u can use up to 1500 watts, if u will destroy the sub? I hope not :o

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  16. Posted

    Distortion is not your problem, it's the person that is controling the volume knob that is the problem. If you take any driver on the market and keep it below xmax you will be below 10% distortion and you will not be able to tell what name brand driver it is, to a certain extent. Yes of course some will be cleaner at louder levels because they have a higher rated xmax, which by definition is 10% THD. You first need to decide how loud you want to get. Then choose what setup will fit that goal while under xmax ratings. Another thing you need to consider is your install skills. Anything is possible. Are you willing to modifiy the truck for bass?

    if thats true, why was the xbl2 motor made, lambada motor, why would ANYONE put time, money, or effort into reducing distortion if u cant hear it anyways?

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  17. Posted

    Do any of u know what a SI MAG is, or the SHIVA-X, or an AE AV is? they are all 1000 watt rms subs that will sound better than an icon, or fi q. they will have lower distortion than either of those subs.

    so if u wanna call it, i want loud with the lowest distortion possible, fine.

    here is what i came up with to fit behind the center console, but the problem is, its only 8.5" from the back of the console, to the front of the back seat. now u take away 1.5" for 3/4 wood, how, oh how can i fit a 10" sub?

    subbox.jpg

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  18. Posted

    Head Unit: Clarion DXZ385USB | Tweets: Vifa XT25SC90-04 1" Dual Ring Radiator | Mids: Peerless 835004 SDS 6-1/2 | Speaker Amp: Sundown SAX 50.4 | Subs: Polk Audio MM1040 10s (135.4 db hehe) | Sub Box: 2.3 cu ft @ 32hz | Sub Amp: AQ1200D

    i have to use all 510 watts unless i sell the amp... 510 watts is the 4 ohm rating, its the lowest wattage i can use with the amp.

    yes ive heard fi q, fi ssd, dc lvl 3, lvl 4, its all loud and not GREAT sq. its average. even the fi q, its not a sq sub at all imo. i could not tell the difference between it and my ssd besides the q handling more power.

    when i say i want sq, i want xbl2 motor, shiva-x, si mag, AE AV subs with the lambada motor. but they dont make 8s, so im trying to fit a 10 or 12 single sub

    just because i say i want sq doesnt mean i want a 50 watt 8" sub and thats enough bass for me.

    does telling u that i have X model polk subs tell u anything about what i want? no cuz i bought them to try and fit them behind the seat, i didnt buy them because they are mass spl subs, or top sq subs. they were just thin and cheap.

    how does knowing my front stage tell u what i want sub wise? it dont at all, because u can read what i have and say oh a single 10 300 watts is fine for that, but what if i want a 12 off 500 watts?

    510watts at 4ohms, lower the gain on the amp and it'll produce less power. :ughdunno:

    Would the idea of putting a small enclosure behind the center console work for you? Just disconnect the wires and pull it out when you need to carry 3 people, otherwise you can carry 2.

    It would be simple, fast to take in and out, and you wouldn't have to mess with your center console.

    any amp wont do its rated power 99% of the time on music regardless of gain levels.

    i dont know, i dont see how SQ, and ""SQL"" are dependant. u can tell me ur fi q is a great SQ sub, but when its design proves otherwise, it falls into the ""SQL"" category. FI responded to my email when asking about the SQ of the fi Q, "its just a standard motor".

    yet when u read about the xbl2 motor, or the lambada motor, u can see its in a different league than the fi q

    i would love to do the single sub behind the console, but it would again have to be an 8" sub unless someone can explain how to fit a 10 or 12. its only 9" wide in every way u look at it, firing up, down, left, right, etc.

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  19. Posted · Edited by cruzer23

    Head Unit: Clarion DXZ385USB | Tweets: Vifa XT25SC90-04 1" Dual Ring Radiator | Mids: Peerless 835004 SDS 6-1/2 | Speaker Amp: Sundown SAX 50.4 | Subs: Polk Audio MM1040 10s (135.4 db hehe) | Sub Box: 2.3 cu ft @ 32hz | Sub Amp: AQ1200D

    i have to use all 510 watts unless i sell the amp... 510 watts is the 4 ohm rating, its the lowest wattage i can use with the amp.

    yes ive heard fi q, fi ssd, dc lvl 3, lvl 4, its all loud and not GREAT sq. its average. even the fi q, its not a sq sub at all imo. i could not tell the difference between it and my ssd besides the q handling more power.

    when i say i want sq, i want xbl2 motor, shiva-x, si mag, AE AV subs with the lambada motor. but they dont make 8s, so im trying to fit a 10 or 12 single sub

    just because i say i want sq doesnt mean i want a 50 watt 8" sub and thats enough bass for me.

    does telling u that i have X model polk subs tell u anything about what i want? no cuz i bought them to try and fit them behind the seat, i didnt buy them because they are mass spl subs, or top sq subs. they were just thin and cheap.

    how does knowing my front stage tell u what i want sub wise? it dont at all, because u can read what i have and say oh a single 10 300 watts is fine for that, but what if i want a 12 off 500 watts?

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  20. Posted

    front center console would work for 8s, but thats it. im looking for pure SQ with as much loudness as i can get. not sundown, fi, etc. ""SQL"". so image dynamics id 8s would be what i use and they are only 150 each, not sure if they could handle my 510@4ohms non clipped. i would think, but not sure if it would be loud enough.

    currently running two 10s ported 870watts.

    i tried designing the single sub behind the console, but not sure how to get a 10, or 12" sub in the spot. its only like 9" wide, so i cant mount a 10" there. unless i go up more, and make it expand somehow, but then will the motor fit? and i cant go too tall or everyone will see it clearly from outside even from far if its over the windows

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  21. Posted

    RearSeat.jpg

    RearSeat2.jpg

    Console.jpg

    FrontSeats.jpg

    as u can tell, no where to put subs under the seat. behind the seat, there is very very little space. The back seat is a 60/40 bench seat. that means one side is a seat and the middle seat, while the other seat is just 1 seat. lastly u can see that the console is not very wide, its not even 10" wide so cant even do a 10" sub there unless someone has an idea.

    only way i see console box working is if i downfire it, but it would be a tall box, as the sub cant mount between the seats, so it would be above the seats. so take a good 5" or more mounting depth sub, +the 4 inches to get over the seat+ 2-3 inches behind sub, it would be really tall.

    also behind the console, i tried to figure out a way for it to work there, but again same prob, its not 10" at any part, i would have to go with an 8" which just doesnt cut it for me for a single sub setup. not to mention i want a SQ sub, not an spl sub (sa-8).

    i could remove a seat, but looks really retarded. not to mention i want to be able to fit people

    ideas?

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  22. Posted

    they delete any thread that has no pictures. simple as that, they dont care reason, or even if u say give me an hour ill up load them.

    they have an attachments option. click it and click upload, find ur picture, click insert inline. bam.

    or

    go to imageshak.us and click upload, find ur picture on ur computer. then u got 2 choices. click the part that says share on a forum, copy and paste that in ur thread, or copy the pictures URL and when u make ur thread, click insert picture and paste the picture's URL in the box that pops up.

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