lb187

I just stopped by. Saw the beef always, imo i thought the box wasn't right but gl to new build.

Two totally different subjects. Yes, but some constants between them. Yeah because someones Mad as hell.

Two totally different subjects.

Just a thought...ever think the box was the problem with the 6 12 build?

very nice , very well put together & clean.

Ty sir, nothing to fancy. Once i get done with school, many things will improve cosmetically.

Nothing special just trying to get a little flex going. 8 SKAR VVx-12's on 2 Crescendo 3kwp's @ .5 Thx 4 lookin.

Thanks M5 for the kind words didn't know we needed the extra comment since i did something so wrong.. any ways i will be going to the USF car meet tomorrow will post up vids of a few Florida boys pounding it out Reppin Bassheadsent.net One of the best box builders/designers round. Laters.

Double post

ok lets try this again because the designer still wanted to get in on this convo. I may not be the all knowing when it comes to Car Audio but i am a man with 2 degrees. I don't understand that how after you said all those lovely things about the designer and builder of the 4th order in question. How can you still say it sounds bad after not hearing it. I didn't lock the thread. Wouldn't have posted in it again if it was locked. As for my statement, I'll repeat it and stand by it. It is not an opinion that in particular that 4th order BP was not the best use of space, it is not an opinion that the output of that box does not have a smooth response in the frequency domain, the only opinion is the one of "sounding good". If you and your cronies think that is a good sounding box then all I can do is pity you. I stated multiple times in that thread that if the OP likes it good for him, but that sounding good is not its forte. As for why the thread was locked, it is rather obvious. Troll central without any information to support any claims. If the box designer wants to discuss his design that is more than fine, but obviously from the posts on FLSPL that isn't the case either. Even funnier considering the "designer" had to start out with the same exact assumptions that I do. His led him to thinking it would sound good and mine that it won't. That should really be the only discussion here. I said his math was confused, albeit potentially based on misdirection from Malibu and not due to his own understanding. So two choices. Either his math is confused or he was misled and made something that isn't optimal for the goals at hand. "Good enough" perhaps for the OP perhaps, but his understanding of anything audio is obviously very small. Lastly, feel free to post in here as much as you like but keep the emotional bullshit out of the Ihop. This is for off topic posts. If you feel you need to discuss this, please feel free to make a thread but take time and re-read it to make sure that it isn't emotional banter and actually has a point and a reason for discussion otherwise it won't exist either. Trolling posts will not be tolerated but any and all logical discussions are encouraged. I'll give you a hint, basing something in science instead of subjectivity would help a ton. Your still telling me that all these people involved with Car Audio who have heard the car are wrong and your right regardless. The designer went off his experience as a designer/builder. We know what SQ is were not oblivious to the fact. Showing a graph compared to actual results. You tell me why the 4th was wrong i want to know in detail. Because some very established vets in this game has heard this car and are amazed. As for the original statement you also said.. "If you like one note wonders. Unless those drivers model REALLY strange that is." "Umm, not really. Look at the response above. It will be loud, but far from good. " based on a graph from Honda, "No, they won't sound similar at all. Generically speaking, the ported box will be just as loud but have a much flatter frequency response. The BP you have was "designed" to be all peak and no response. You can do the same in the ported but you don't give up as much. For getting loud and low 4th order BP are rarely if ever the solution. " Wow is this just wrong ever heard of Noisy Cricket?? Middleweight BB Champ Inac Champ and 49.9 World Champ and points champ getting nasty doing really close to 60's daily from the same people. 4th order..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xgb7A2-IqUQ&feature=player_embedded "FL is the king state of idiotic installs.... Your definition of well and mine are different. WAY different." You took a shot at Florida.... "Close. They knew enough to really screw it up, but not enough to fix it. Physics Theories are not idiotic and not defeat-able. As I said before, I hope it does what YOU want it to as that is all that matters." Theories are defeat-able and don't apply to real world variables. I study theories all day long in my diff electronics classes. they may be close but never the"uniform standard" by wich all things apply. "Definitely the state that leads in that regard. All the idiots running as many bullet tweeters as mids, now that's LOL. Frequency response seems to be lost there in favor of one note wonders. 8 out of 10 people that come onto here with hair brained ideas are from Florida, pretty commonly known. Nothing in the water there, just a following of someone who knows not of what they do." well no one i know uses super-tweets for "mids" and again you took a shot at people that live in FL that are on the CA scene. Florida must be doing something right for some of the bigger CA shows in the country to come here. "Some of the loudest builds doesn't mean jack if the enclosure is based on rule of thumbs or in other words luck. There is a science behind building boxes and when it isn't used the results won't follow. I am not implying they didn't use any, they may have chosen to build a box that is the size of a standard ported, has a peak that is no higher, has a poor frequency response, but farts one note. From what I have seen in FL that may make sense as a desirable feature. I just don't get it. ? what evidence do you have to support this? I know many people that have a wide range and not one note wonders. Its not how we roll. " Actually what isn't funny is how keyboard commando's who don't understand science at all think they know more than people who design speakers and drivers. If you don't believe me then why not argue exactly how it is different from a scientific perspective. Anyone who's personal experience you trust should EASILY be able to do this for a simple 4th order bandpass box. They are not difficult to design. Plenty of free software available on the internet that doesn't lie. Sounds like you've already brainwashed yourself into believing hype that doesn't work nor is it scientifically even reasonable. Obviously you are also the type that succumbs to promises made on weight loss programs, muscle building drinks, diet pills, and so on. Snake oil doesn't work for anything good in audio, you should stop subscribing to it. Really simple to stop, just ask why. If they can't answer and have some semblance of math behind their answer they don't know and are guessing or following rules of thumb. One thing I can promise you as well, there are NO rules of thumb that always work in audio. NONE." By your own admittance no rule of thumb works i believe this time it was yours.. As for the bolded i have to lol at using programs over 15 years experience of building/designing enclosures. The software will never be as accurate as a person whose built/designed. "How can you design a box and NOT know what it is going to do? If you did, then I would say that isn't a design. You really shouldn't defend what you don't understand yourself." Again you did not design this box but you said it was wrong in every aspect and a one note wonder. Which its is very very far from.. "Except yours is the opinion and mine is fact. No way around that one. I won't stop as it will allow others who read the thread to be misinformed, so if you keep trying to state that your subjective opinion is science I will continue to call you out on it. " The car is not a one note wonder as you so intensely repeated before. And your telling others that what you say is gold... You keep yelling Physics cant be beat... if thats true why doesn't everyone run sealed enclosures?? In theory they are the best hands down... But are hardly used. My overall point is you sit and say without a doubt having not heard it or had one hand in its design or build tell people its gonna fail. It did not. So im hoping this wont get emotional and the Builder/designer can have his say also in wich he already asked you questions you refused to answer and retort with more questions.. Im not here to hate anyone, i just take offense when people say this is how it is nothing else your all wrong... Robin is a good friend and a good guy who deserves his props for the ingenuity he has and the ability to do what he does without using graphs and programs. Just raw skill......

Well excuse me that on a build log that was posted M5 blasted the designer/builder. "Someones math is confused, VERY confused. Its not gonna sound good." That was his very first comment. That's constructive criticism? Without rhyme or reason just blast the design because he "could have done it better" but he offers no advice. Just criticism. As for credentials... what does it take to be a "Tech crew" member??? Hours of sitting at a computer with programs and graphs? Or actually "BUILDING" enclosures for 10 years. I cant look up M5 anywhere to see what hes done except thousands of post on the internet. As for the builder/dsigner?? Google, Db Unit, then You Tube Iamamp3pimp and when done check out BASSHEADS.ENT Lets not talk about the hundreds of customers that are loud and sound good thanks to him. Why else would people defend the builder/designer if he didnt know his shit lol hmmmmmmmm

Why no, no he didn't mention that thread. Others did. My generation was brought up with old school lessons still intact. My parents from 2 different racial backgrounds. 1. Midwestern farm. 2. From the segregated South. They taught me to get respect you have to give it. I never will insult a person without at least attempting to understand where they are coming from before i remark.

Funny i thought it was over... But just a reminder, It was Ryan (malibu's) build thread not a how to. Honda 95 responds with a graph then M5 with his math comment. In life you need to learn how to address someone for better results. In technical writing there are ways that deal with these types of responses. The tone was all wrong.. If m5 would have approached the thread differently it wouldn't have went the way it did. And he happened to insult a very well respected individual in the CA scene. So why wouldn't he expect a backlash? He began with a statement that the builders math was wrong and VERY confused. Instead of asking a question a little less abrasive, to see what the builders/desiners thought process was. But when his credentials were brought up he goes incognito. Still not proving why his credentials are any better than Robins. Just doesn't make sense.

i keed i keed

For the record it will be metered in the next week when he has a chance looking like this coming weekend.

By your own reasoning then the party that sought to disprove the designer/builder should " show" his evidence why..................... Again the 1st comment in the thread by M5 was, "Ouch, someone's math is confused. Very confused. That box will not sound good...I don't even need the Skar T/S to tell you that." Cmon bro, we get your point. M5 already said he wasn't coming back. HE ISN'T GONNA ANSWER YOU. I hate to be an all caps keyboard warrior but seriously. You said what you had to say, made your point. You can stop. If he doesn't he only proves that he has no real answers. Kikin asked a very very valid question. We have Dylan and Robins abilities and credentials and (math) been in question why cant his be?

By your own reasoning then the party that sought to disprove the designer/builder should " show" his evidence why..................... Again the 1st comment in the thread by M5 was, "Ouch, someone's math is confused. Very confused. That box will not sound good...I don't even need the Skar T/S to tell you that."

Who else has done this to disprove anyone before?? You sure want alot why does not M5 have to jump thru as many hoops to prove his point wich he has proven nothing with facts yey.... Again the 1st comment in the thread by M5 was, "Ouch, someone's math is confused. Very confused. That box will not sound good...I don't even need the Skar T/S to tell you that." Lets start there. Because measuring equipment is not capable of a subjective response. It is what it is not what someone thinks it is. Seems like a simple way to prove someone wrong to me. No.... Again the 1st comment in the thread by M5 was, "Ouch, someone's math is confused. Very confused. That box will not sound good...I don't even need the Skar T/S to tell you that." He has yet to prove why the math was wrong... Seems simple enough to me. If it is somewhat flat, what can he say? The results will not be emotional, they will be measured. My question is not emotional at all i want him to back why the math was wrong. All he saw were pics that the OP put up. No one will address this. Again the 1st comment in the thread by M5 was, "Ouch, someone's math is confused. Very confused. That box will not sound good...I don't even need the Skar T/S to tell you that." How??

Who else has done this to disprove anyone before?? You sure want alot why does not M5 have to jump thru as many hoops to prove his point wich he has proven nothing with facts yey.... Again the 1st comment in the thread by M5 was, "Ouch, someone's math is confused. Very confused. That box will not sound good...I don't even need the Skar T/S to tell you that." Lets start there. Because measuring equipment is not capable of a subjective response. It is what it is not what someone thinks it is. Seems like a simple way to prove someone wrong to me. No.... Again the 1st comment in the thread by M5 was, "Ouch, someone's math is confused. Very confused. That box will not sound good...I don't even need the Skar T/S to tell you that." He has yet to prove why the math was wrong...

Who else has done this to disprove anyone before?? You sure want alot why does not M5 have to jump thru as many hoops to prove his point wich he has proven nothing with facts yey.... Again the 1st comment in the thread by M5 was, "Ouch, someone's math is confused. Very confused. That box will not sound good...I don't even need the Skar T/S to tell you that." Lets start there.

M5 started off by saying someones math was wrong very wrong. No proof. Just because HE says. That's just like me telling you Your box will sound like crap without any questions about it.

There is nothing special about their 4th order bandpass, ///M5 is asking them to prove there is something unique about it, and they cannot come up with anything. @Godsmack: Its called actual experience in building on a daily basis. This seems what its about people want to pick there brains. No one ever said there was anything special. M5's 1st post in the build log was... "Ouch, someone's math is confused. Very confused. That box will not sound good...I don't even need the Skar T/S to tell you that." He (M5) needs to prove as to why. I don't want to hear physics and acoustics because the build is done. In fact he was going off a graph made by another "tech team" member So a more accurate response curve can be made, and they will finally realize that snake oil and fairy dust does not make an enclosure sound good. Why a more accurate curve need to be made now after the build is done and completed M5 says he has the same assumptions as designer/builder. He shouldn't need specs he should post his own specs with his own design showing why its better. Not just say it. "Ouch, someone's math is confused. Very confused. That box will not sound good...I don't even need the Skar T/S to tell you that." No education no proof no facts there just an opinion. also you guys yell keep it on topic?? there are several posts made here that dont even involve the topic including people making "joke post" over in the Skar audio section.........

when are you gonna post an answer to a very simple question asked to you. Perhaps Ryan (The customer) lacks the knowledge to defend the enclosure that he paid the designer to come up with. "I'm not sure if that has crossed your mind, but ponder it for awhile. When youre finished, Please explain to me why the enclosure does not work. Please explain why everything is wrong with it. You say that it is your mission to "Make peoples things work better, but you have yet to provide any alternative. You claim to be the guy that is here to increase our knowledge and make us better at what we do. Then do it bro, all you have been doing is criticizing. The only alternative that you have said is that "You should work with someone else" You dont know a single measurement of the vehicle. I just dont understand how that doesnt matter" lock it all your gonna do is avoid any good points you said all those things. Now don't want to revisit it. Just answer the above question by the designer so he can respond to you and can fully understand your argument and no the insults.

Seriously kid? Its done and over with. Let it the fuck go. J Ok SON, like i give a fuck really. Don't be mad ill say it again Wrong wrong Wrong lol. wasn't even talking to you, son. I saw a few others had something to say added my .02 Now ill let it go.

lol, still oblivious to the fact that when people are wrong they cant admit it. A person who is well respected amongst the community (also as well learned about this subject as the best over here) said and i have to sum it up with this.... "I understand them saying that it would be a fail (if thats what they thought) before it was finished, but now thats its done, and clearly is loud and sounds great, why are people still saying "my opinion is it wont sound good". Its already done. Its built. It plays. It plays everything. Its loud. Whats the problem?" This is what i didn't get even after saying it a million times, it doesn't make sense the opinion that M5 holds. Don't see what you could have taught anyone by making a last retort and locking the thread lol. Anyways have fun.