ronrico418

The Havoc and Q have different specs do they not? They have different motors do they not? I doubt thats true man. The Q's specs are not fully loaded... They are specs from a base model Q. I've been at SBN and Fi/AA made it clear to everyone their that AA is the flagship line of Fi. That is Fully loaded Fi version of their subs available to dealers. I'm sure you'll all find out the truth soon enough. Otherwise everyone lied to everyone. Dude I was just their and heard it from the whole crew. Youi can't make this stuff up.

http://s130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Ro...nt=MVI_0165.flv

Between the two, I'd choose the Icon. So? That's perfect. Set the amp to a little below maximum unclipped output. Stop listening to them, because they're clueless on that point. I bet you would 1200 will be fine agreed but perfect? nono Well now that's just ignorant right!

What kind of sub what are your plans, Do you like loud,low? Please tell more I prefer a larger sub as cone area is hard to beat

There's one whole part of that that's glaringly obvious, and has nothing to do with power - high efficiency 12" midbasses and USD horns are extremely efficient, and can make do with very little in amplifier power to get earsplitting volume - adding more power simply provides even more headroom. I used to have a pair of Klipsch floorstanders that were "rated" for 100W, I sent them 8 watts per channel...and I can tell you they were nowhere near clipping. In the triode world power levels of 3 watts or less are common, and there are people that have some serious unclipped output - the key is very high efficiencies That's why I cringe when I hear the "more power is better" thing...because often times improving the efficiency of the entire system is more effective Well, that does depend on the application \SQPL is the name of the game and SSD Chaos Havoc or Q wins everytime period. What will have most output for a single sub and only one will fit in my car and I want it to be as loud as possible BTL mayhem will take it. R\ Waited along time for that? get serious

Terminology to who's understanding..? I may understand both of your respective terminologies of SPL and SQ better than yourselves but nobody has a patent on it and it applies in both. Have more of an open mind --- If having a hard time understanding other peoples definitions on things ask someone for help. Obviously you figured you had differences w/ zuccs definitions and just wanted to make yourself heard, well it sounded like whaaaaaaaawhawha If I am wrong I will ask for your forgiveness and offer my assistance. Zucc is trying to say that many SPL oriented woofers have a not so nice aftertaste called motor sound. Some specific type woofers sometimes have more clarity, cleanliness, crisp quality of sound or SQ at the frequencies we are trying to reproduce at ridiculously loud levels, also known as amplitude and SPL. Just because you like your subsonic frequency at a lower level than most doesn't mean that people can't desire high output at a quality level. SQPL. Is any of this making sense. PM if you'd like and I'd be happy to help you out w/ definitions and improving your own settup if you'd like!

Step back boys and let me take this one Zucc, I am a good reader of people and although a couple of short sentences ,indeed, I understand completely .... The answer for you is order a Ascendand Audio Havoc or a Fi Q fully loaded, to be ran off a single Sundown SAZ 1500/D They are in fact the same sub and would both be excellent SQ and SPL of what your definitions are.. Maybe even better than you could possibly anticipate in both categories. Another one I love some guys hear hate is SQPL. Makes some of them throwup the next time they see someone drink white milk through a clear glass! hehe The BTL which is a mayhem and the BL are going to be better sounding (your version of SQ) subs than most if not all other SPL oriented subwoofers on the market. Although they have avoided the NASTY "motor" sound that is coming from most SPL subs their is still an unwanted spider sound that is a little to bangy. On one hand it goes along with this one woofer being unbelievable that only one can be so loud but on the other it doesn't matter how many watts you have on a single driver 2 subs of same size have the potential to play better even w/ less power (nothing beats cone area) ....The BTL is cool for it's application but most people would probably be happier running Q's or SSD's (cleaner sound) It's so funny how many people pass up on the SSD, Chaos, Q, Havoc and go for the BL or BTL, Mayhem. Everything Fi/AA makes is going to have some serious dedication to Bass. Nothing wrong with it sounding clean, clear and have high fidelity at the same time.. The Q loaded ,Havoc, will have more SPL than you are probably thinking!!! It is very capable with no motor noise or unwanted banginess. If you need more bass don't add another amp spend less on another Q loaded - same thing as havoc. and you;ll have more output to your ears while remainiing clear.

Panky run a Q w/o options this is getting old.. The havoc is a fully loaded Q. You need a Q w/o options . the only way to get that is a custom order from Fi. Personally I will not comment on Icon. I do not know who the people that make them is for sure. Don't know if you'll find that out either. I'm done with you Panky until I see a Q in your psession.. You either take my advice or you don't. You'll still end up w/ something good I'm sure since your on this great site but the Q w/ no options is your best poossible opportunity taking into account everything you have shared.

sae 1000D is Sundown 1500 would be good for 2 Q's (havocs) or SSDs (chaos) A 1500 on 2 SSDs ,(optimal) you'll get more out of the SSDs w/ that amp, you should order dual 1s will get you a .7-1 ohm load

The Q is more sub than most people ever dream of or will own - and that goes for people on SSA too. The Q (Havoc) outperforms the BTL by lightyears (Not really an opinion it just does)

no pics till photobucket is working the Havoc is a Q fully loaded period.

Many people couldn't stick their head to far inside. I am an old basser from way back. me a lil jon caught a bunch of cool vids and was a blast at the show (inside even) Very last time I listened there was one note that was really hurting EVEN ME!! Kudos to lil jon and his installer Big Mike!! Learned alot this weekend Joe ROD

Okay let's try it again BTW I remembered all you guys and have lots o vids for u's from SBN !!! learned lots bout fi/AA dis weekend. Scott reallly is the man and Paul(who builds every woofer) is an honarable dude to have at your side. I am friends w/ Shawn Fleming but Chris from Fi had me understanding all the changes in bout' 45 seconds. Ya'll might not believe wats goin on round there. also new topic soon!! Joe Rod

I believe lil jon is doing 18 15" Arsenals I do believe w/ 9 clarion amps @ 1500 rms each. YOu do the math---I'm going to DAYTONA to listen to it. Sorry for those of you that can't make it. Will be my 15th visit in 18 years. Look forward to it all year. Last year was the best in 10 years w/ Fi coming out in full force/This year shoul be straight disgusting. Fi/AA Everyone look out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Peace, Joe

JJ Speaking of who makes what. Who the heck makes ICon's? I think I know........ Peace

I have personal experience and have noted w/ many others that the main problem with HiFonics is that they are POWER HUNGRY, meaning they need more batts and electrical upgrages than they should for their power. Fi SSD ~ excellent high line subs prices that are stuck in the 80s. Cmon SSD18 for 239.00 shipped to your door with customization available! I payed 250 each for my 4 Rockford Fosgate Punch series subs in 1992. To be able to get a Fi SSD18 for less money and have three times the rated rms to me makes it a sub that has to be 4-5 times better ++++++++++++. Just a great deal and I don't know what can really compare to that. Then to SUNDOWN. Well 500 rms sounds great on any Fi SSD 10 - 18 and 600 is very impressive. YOU could buy a Sundown Sae 1000 for 300? (if that) and run any 2 subs of the SSD series. If you bought a Sundown Saz1500 for 400 used you can still have a year warranty (Sundown is awesome) and run a pair of SSD very near there rated rms or easily run 3 SSDs with over 500 rms each. (Sundown is underated) I don't know how I can't afford Sundown and Fi. Just a matter of looking for the right stuff and not having sticker shock adding up what other peoples system applications are. Joe Rod

Cory, Are you gonna install both now? Damn stud get that other 1K on the way big dog. By the way I know a faster way to Daytona than the way you will prob go, Gimmie a call bro Ronrico

I second the enclosure. Panky you have great advice already. Are you just enjoying your shopping experience. PM me your # and I'll answer any questions you want afer 9pm tonight EST time. What time will it be in the Phillipines then? Later Bro Joey

The BTL is unquestionably louder, even when ran w/ just less than 1500 watts (Sundown 3000 @ 4ohms). The Havoc is undoubtedly the better woofer in my opinion for my application. Going to talk to Scott this weekend and find out for sure what will be best for my build of a 4th order, single reflex, bandpass enclosure w/ 418s... I have been leaning towards the Fi SSD's with copper coil option along with special modification to the parameters making the woofer optimal for an encosure of my type.... Godnight, Daytona is upon us..............Ronrico

You and Steve are a couple of followers. hehe All good though brotha cuz if there's anyone I want behind me it's you. PS wanna buy a really nice new red whip that just turned 20. hehe....... Am I so funny or just delerious since I have to be at work iin 5 hours! Damn Roxies Ronrico

More in control? Not really... Jim never expected that from you! I've been in car audio for 20 years and it's a rule of thumb I've always understood. If I am wrong please explain thoroughly so that I may understand completely. The car that ruled undefeated throughout the late 80s to early 90s was Richard Clark's Buick Grand National. Richard's car was settup for SQ and scored perfect on the RTA nearly everytime. He ran only 6 speakers total though and compared to what is used today about the only thing similar from his system to current top dog big boys of SQ, (Gary Biggs of JBL and Eddie DeJesus w/ DLS, is the fact that they are in complete "control" of their speakers by havin' amps that are rated higher then the RMS of each driver. Going back to Richard Clark, the only undefeated vehicle in car audio history of all cars competing more than one year. Mr. Clark's system ran 5000 watts t only 6 speakers. 2 15" for the subsonic frequencies, 2 12" for mid bass drivers, and the first set of USD Waveguides used in a vehicle. Remember this is back in the '80s, so I don't know what speakers in those days could have possibly handled that wattage? From what I understand Richard Clark's theory, or perhaps something he picked-up from Speakerworks of California (orginal owners of the winningest vehicle in IASCA history), was to be in complete control of each driver by having more than the RMS rated by their respective companies. Being able to adjust the gaines properly, these competitors for one never had to wonder, "What if I had a bigger,better, more powerful amp on that particular speaker." Also, having an amp with more power than a rated speaker woud help to create highly desired "headroom" and thus increasing the sound quality as well as the personal enjoyment for the vehicle owner and enthusiests alike. Really I could go on, but it is 3am in FLA and I have one more day of work til I head off to SBN's. If what I have always understood is in anyway wrong, I would definately like to be informed for my own learning, knowledge, and future understanding. Goodnight everyone. Daytona is upon us. Thank goodness it only takes 45 minuets to get there for me....hehe Joey aka Joe, Joseph, Joe Rod, J2Z, Ronrico, 418Fis, and Bass King.

Good Question! Amp is a Sundown SAZ3000-D Sub's are 1 15" Fi BTL, Daily option and dual mag. Originally I hooked up the BTL in series so 1500 watts or less. Surprisingly the dual mag BTL will get MOVIN' with only 1500 rms. (Honestly I was probably pushing less) With the daily option the BTL has better SQ than I had anticipated. I was definately impressed with the amplitude of the woofer and many locals around my area that listened to it (including my local JLW7 installers) all guessed 2-15s or more! The highest guess was 4-15s which was after I hooked it up in parallel pulling 2500 watts rms plus. Again I and everyone that listened was impressed - I keep everything running at reasonable levels to take care of these subs which are not mine. Summary if you desire to impress people with only 1 sub the BTL dual mag 15" will do it with 1500rms period..........The thing I didn't like about the BTL is when you really get on it the sub starts to have a lil to much bang. Don't get me wrong I have had 4 18" subs with the perfect 4th order single reflex bandpass enclosure in my vehicle 3 different times and also used to rule Tampa with 34-10s in a perfect loaded horn enclosure in my Chevy S10. I know bass and personally I like the LOWZ along with old skool bass, Techmaster, MC ADE, and Bass 305. Many subs that have an SPL oriented build have a "motor" sound that personally turns me off!.. The BTL has this banging which some people may not even realize but for me it was better than the other SPL subs on the market. 1 15" Ascendant Audio Havoc, both are dual 2 ohm. The Havoc is definately not as loud as the BTL and isn't going to rule the streets with being the loudest single sub on the market. However the Havoc is definately something I would enjoy in my ride. VERY VERY clean, clear, crisp bass along w/ plenty of SPL. The Havoc definately does it's job. I have friends with W7s and I would go as far to say why buy a JL when the Havoc sounds every bit as good, comes in bigger sizes, & costs half as much. This new Havoc has a great look on the cone (ironically kinda like a W7) and it would be my choice to run 2 havocs over 1 btl any day. If you ever thought you would be happy w/ a W7 then you will definately be happy with the Havoc and so will your wallet. gotta go back to work but I'll chime back in later. Fi/Ascendant does it again! Joe Rod,joey,ronrico,418Fi's

Cory --- You are the Chosen YOu are going to be so happy. I'll call tomorrow if you don't call me 1st Later Joe Rod

Call me stubborn (or a total bass head) but I can't for the life of me come to grips with the idea that ONE 15 will give me what I'm looking for, sealed of all things! Truly, a part of me hopes you're really right and running 2 will be way overkill Ask any of my friends, my motto and reasoning for building-in 'excess' is simply: "you can always turn it down". It's honestly not a bad reputation to have! So if 1 sealed is plently, 2 sealed should be perfect. Now AA lists from 1.8 cubes up to IB for the 15 Havoc. How should I decided how big to make my box? Cory, I'll get with you Saturday on the box. Call me tomorrow with your maximum external dimensions! BY THE WAY - You could go ported or sealed but you really should do sealed. You'll love rock all over again! Yes 2 is going to blow your mind, yoiu have really stepped up and taken it to the next level!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Joey

400 dollar mistake? Explain more please The "Q" jams SQ and SPL @ the same time .... One hellofa wuufer