shizzzon

The mods should make us virtual sales reps and any others who help, hehe.

Lol, alright LISTEN UP PEOPLE- From here on out, if I say anything that ends up being false, i'm blamin it on a mod, hehe

my plan is a lot bigger than 1 15

in the future, if you have no upgraded electrical yet, dont let the lights dim until you get an upgrade.

i just noticed mods can edit their posts without it saying that it was edited... That's not fair. I'm tellin Mom! I'm definitely leakin that chit!

no, there really are ways to find out beforehand. One is what you are doing now, research and asking questions. Think of it this way. Fi is an internet only based company. Users come online to do research. They've heard other setups before and may have owned a few. This message board is home to a lot of companies. When you get this many people together all agreeing about how loud a certain sub gets it, you get interested. When you see that many people running that line of subs, that's interesting. When you go on youtube and see what they can do vs what other comparisons one has, that's the key to purchase. Every sub has a class comparison to an extent. I used to run Audioque. I am not changing because i don't like them, i'm changing because me vehicle is smaller and Fi's BL 10s require a smaller box than the AQs do. Everyone may have to change sometime but after being on this board for a while and researching what all is offered here, there's a bigger world out there after only focusing on whats at the stores. I was telling someone else this earlier in the week about how someone he knew was knocking on Fi because they aren't heard of in his area and that makes them a terrible company?!?! Things like that is what gets people made fun of but all goes to show those who are trying to learn just how uneducated these people really are about car audio, or any audio for that matter.

I don't like to argue, thats why i said do NOT look at a picture or just guess how someone has something setup and go off of that without facts. For one, you are talking about the WRONG setup. I am referring to the Escalade as what you had originally mentioned when you said 8 18s. 2nd, just because someone enters in a competition doesn't mean he set his equipment to win 1st place. He just wanted a number to go with that setup just like anyone else would if they thought their setup was loud. I have went to a comp before with 1 15 tuned at 29hz. No REAL competitor would do that, but i did! I still hit 144.3 db at 31hz on audiocontrol mic. Not everyone in comps is an extremist. Some do it for the numbers and fun, others do it to win 1st. Again, you are comparing 2 woofers in separate classes. You should be comparing the T2 to a 15" BL. Meade runs BTLs, far greater in output.

Ok, you are gonna make me spell out the obvious here- This is going all my manufacturer's recommendations on both sides- T2 - 1000wrms 87DB efficient RE on D2 - 1.8 EBP - Low, designed for Sealed applications mainly. Xmax - 19mm SD - 748 cm^2 18" BTL - 2000wrms(3000wrms fully loaded) 95.1DB efficient RE on D2 - 1.5 EBP - pretty high, over 120, designed specifically for Ported enclosure for even more output. Xmax - 16mm Stock, Xmax is increased when using HiXmcoil SD - 1210 cm^2 So far, i have covered the basics so let's see who wins this comparison- The 18 is 8 db more efficient, more cone area, handle 3x as much power, Re is lower than RF which means it can receive more power, larger xmax after Hixmcoil more excursion and suited for ported designs which makes it even more efficient. There is no way a T2 should be compared to an 18" BTL. They are not in the same class.

and no one can tell someone that an install is "wack" just because of a number. Steve Meade's design in the Escalade is NOT for competition. Steve Meade's design in the Escalade doesn't push the 18s to their limits Either! And as far as i know, that 15Kw amp doesn't output that power all the time, correct? doesn't it have to charge up to get that much out of it after a while? Oh and his setup, i'm sure, is tuned low due to daily driving. Don't get someone's opinion like that. That starts false rumors about products. Get the facts from the designer himself, not from a picture or a guess.

if you really need an answer to which is louder then you need to just stick to what you know(Rockford) before you up the ante in heavy duty equipment.

The 12 would still be louder. Multiple reasons. It's about 3db more efficient, that also has to do with because it has more cone area. going from 1000w to 1500w is only a theoretical 1.5db increase at best. 3 minus 1.5 is a number greater than 0 or a negative number so according to paper work, 1 12 off of 1000w is louder than 1 10 off of 1500w. you would have to literally double the output power of the 10 JUST TO get as loud as 1 12 according to paper. You are probably asking this because you are limited on space. I'll tell you what, give me your dimensions to where you can install equipment and i'll see what i can come up with. Also i will need yr make and model.

I like to think up things i haven't never seen done so let's get some opinions in here because i wanna see what people think how this would work - I don't feel like drawing a pic so i'm going to rely on your visualizations to see this box in your head. Let's take a 12" sub. Let's put it in a ported box at 2.5 cuft. Tuning... thats the interesting part. Ok, so build a box with 5 walls, not 6, 5. Leave the rear wall completely off. Now, let's say for quick number crunching, the box is as follows - (all external) 16" wide x 16" tall x 16" deep with no rear wall. Now, let's build another box with no sub cut out, again with 5 walls, not 6. Dimensions for this box is as follows - (internal) 20" wide x 20" tall x 20" deep. Put this box over the other box to where the side with no wall is on the same side as the sub. Now, we connect the boxes together using nothing but All-Thread! The result - a ported box for a 12" sub in 2.5cubes ported with a port that circles all the way around the sub in a square that is 4" wide all the way around. How in the hell can that be calculated and what on earth am i thinking would it sound like?

Unfortunately Orion has went retarded on rating their amps. I remember back when i was younger that they used to have comp amps capable of running @ 0.25 ohms, thsoe were the good ol days. Not too long ago, Orion came out with the XTR2400. That amp was a good amp to use. Then came the 2500D. While it did do it's job in outputting real power, some people had defective problems with them. I do not know why, may have been their fault, don't know. All i know is whe ni was reading about them, others were leading them away from Orion to other choices... now we have the 5000w amp... that's NOT 5,000w. If you read the description, it clearly states 2,500w. This amp is not comparable to a true 5,000w amp because it isn't a 5Kw amp. Sundown amps are very efficient and can output same power even at large voltage drop. If you stick to only known brands that local stores only can or choose to carry, then you will be missing out on the bigger picture and your other choices out there. With that advice he gave you, Meade should have never got those BTLs... Do your own research. You can decipher from doing your own research what sounds true and what doesn't. Someone saying other brands aren't wise to go with if they arent popular to him is not a wise statement. There could be a car company that starts out in Germany that may manufacturer vehicles that run off of air and get infinite miles to the gallon and start out at $5000 retail USD and only cost $10 a year insurance..... they could take over the world in vehicle manufacturing... but because they are new or no one had heard of them even though everybody is raving about them doesn't make them bad choice. Interesting example, huh? hehe I'd suggest going to www.the12volt.com and other message boards such as this one and doing your own research on companies and basics of car audio and come back here in a few months and see what view you have then.

if i did, i'd have to cut my amplifier power by half. Try to picture this if u can. This is the best setup i have drawn out so far so if anything new happens then... well that's irrelevant for right now. Powered by a Lanzar6000d - 4,800w@1ohm. with 5 HC600s in the back of the car side by side. Right in front the batts is the box, taking up the entire width, depth and all but 3 " of height in the entire hatch area. I've done so many drawing in CAD, if someone owns a Scion tC i can guarantee i can tell you a way to fit something if it's possible by now, hehe. When i drew a design with port back, i placed the batts in front of the box and had the subs facing up. But to give the ports room to breath after exiting the box, i'm lookin at only being able to fit 2 10s ported but i cant run that kind of power 2 10" BLs so i ditched the batts in that drawing and came out to like 2 10s off of 2,000w of power. It's a nice setup, indeed, but i've had setups like this before and know what they can do and want to do something different this time. When i go to order these subs in a month or so, i should just place one in a test box i have and face it ever which way i want and see what appeals to me. Another big plus with firing forward is less external vibrational noise. That saves in sound deadening headaches. And another plus is for show offs at local car clubs. I havent been to this one car club i normally went to in like 3 months. They know i'm workin on a new setup and they always love for me to stop by because i got the stereo on wheels to put in simply, hehe. The guy who runs the car club went to a couple comps but he's clueless in that field but he did it for fun anyway just to say he did. Me and him are buds and i want to build something that stands out. Something that just makes my mouth drop and i believe firing forward will dominate the 40-50 hz range since that's where most of the punchy bass comes from. I may not be able to hear it inside the car but on the outside, if the low end can be heard then that's just as good for the shows. But, I'll see when that time comes. When my car got broken into a couple months ago, they stole my vid cam. So when i get all this stuff installed, i gota go buy another vid cam to show you guys what has been built. I like to do plenty of vids and tests for myself to keep logs of what does what in what install so when i ever build another design, i know what all my other ones were like.

Are these parameters taken on the subs when they are freshly new or taken when the suspension has loosened up? And I am referring to Fi subs.

if u wait til april or may, you can hear mine.

nope, I was gonna tune at 33 but ports too long. I'm going to be using 4 4" diameter ports and required length at 35hz is 29" long per port! I only have like 20" total internal depth but i am still tinkering in AutoCAD to see what i can come up with. The box size is 3.5cubes NET. Just checked, goin down to 30 would increase em another 11" per so that's a no go. I can try to increase internal volume to allow a partial drop in length but it's still not enough to fit, even at 35 without some more tinkering.

you know man, i understand what the difference between the two is now since you say that from experience with other subs lacking in low end... But for my install, i will be facing sub AND port forward in the car. I know that loses a ton of low end right there. Do you think i still have a chance of having the Q reproduce that low end still tuned at 35hz or should i just stay with the BLs? I am fully aware of the loss i will have with facing everything forward but i have had an install like this before so i know what's lacking. I am also aware when i had an install like that, that 40-52hz was breath taking, i liked that a lot. Mainly what i mean by experience is, it kinda sounds like a sealed box in a small enclosure trying to play low bass. As long as I can audibly hear "some" low bass response out of the BLs in the low end range facing forward then i'm alright. I already knew what to expect when facing forward so the ultra lows are not a goal, just equivalent to what a small sealed box sounds when it tries to play them. so whatcha thinka? The BL win in this scenario?

ok, here it is, the secret of impedance rise, hehe- You will need an Ammeter which you have and a DMM(Digital Multimeter) You can only measure impedance rise on single test tones. IF you try to do it when playing music, the resistance will change repeatedly before the test tools retrieve the present info. So one tone at a time. Also take note that if you need to test a lot of tones, allow the subs to cool down or else resistance will be higher than normal. Take the DMM and put it's probes on the speaker output terminal. Take the ammeter and clamp it around the positive wire ONLY. Burp a test tone long enough for you to get readings. At a split second, visually record your voltage and current output from the amp. Make sure that they stay steady instead of changing erratically. Write these numbers down before you forget. Let's say you got 63.2V and 46.1A All you do now is divide the amps INTO the voltage. The answer in this example is - 1.37 ohms That is what rise is, amps divided into voltage and can be found only by measuring the output from the amp(s) itself. Now since you know... and everyone else who read this, start doing your tests. You will start to gain some knowledge about how things work in your install environment for comp reference if you are going that route.

You will see it when you remove the tape from the box and open the box up. There are multiple ways of doing this- You can get a knife, any small blade will work and use the "cutting side" of the knife to cut the tape that is holding the box shut. Just gently run it across the underside of the tape at the ends of the box. A safer way is just to use your finger to pull the tape back at the ends of the box and rip the tape off. Regardless of how you open it up, it will not void the warranty unless you burn the coils up during opening the box or the spider gets ripped off because you thought the sub was inside the BL... Anyway, good luck with seeing the sub and post a vid of UPS delivering it because i havent seen any in a while!!

Well, then i have questions... On the 10" BL, since it's Fs is rated over 40hz AFTER it has loosened up, why would Fi suggest tuning as low as 30hz? I want to tune 3 of these 10s to 35hz but still like it to drop down to 30hz, and of course be able to reproduce that sound. I am just leary that it won't. I know Fs does or may have to do with SQ as well, but sq comes into play when i want it playable. I need loud but i need my lows as well.

if u got about 6cubes of NET space available, go with 2 12s if you got at least 4K of power. 2 12s would be louder than 1 15.

i honestly do not know anything about IA's amps but i do know that those sundown's are very efficient! If you are worried about that, the sundown's are a great choice. ~90% @ 2ohms is awesome. According to the tests that are pinned in the Sundown Audio forum, power draw should be as follows - @ 1.33 ohms - approx 320-355A at 10.75-12.0v @ 2 ohms - approx 240-265A at 10.75-12.0v Those are like worse case scenarios. As long as you got the proper capacity of batts and alt, you shouldn't dip that low while driving. Power output may increase some if you can sustain high 13's but am uncertain.

for thermal handling, the Orion would be because it has a larger coil. Also, if you do decide on going with the orion, pay close attention to the manual's recommendations. You are suggested to mount the sub facing straight up or down, do not have it facing towards the front or the rear. From the specs though, it sounds like an interesting driver. It has a pretty low EBP value. Only required to be put in 3.5cubes ported, ultra low Fs, over 1" xmax, 4" coil, very heavy sub and has more radiating area than a BTL of the same size... But is it better? Who knows... To me, it sounds like the HCCA is trying to remain "clear" while being loud at the same time. IT can't go below 24hz and supposedly it's 5db less efficient than a BTL if measured the same. The BTL's are meant to be in ported boxes to get every last bit out of them to be hella loud, that's not how the HCCAs are though... Although, the HCCA's have other specs that excel over the BTL so i can't really guess because they both have great specs. I just think the Orion is more geared toward keeping the quality a little smoother whereas the BTL is geared toward... WHAT? u get the picture

if you do that then the alt will not be able to properly charge all the batts to 100% if that's the only alt in the vehicle.