creyc

I love my Havoc 15s, by far the most musical, yet brutally pounding subs I've owned. I've heard a buddies Fi Q setup and it sounds great but at the end of the day I think the Havocs really do have a better low end presence, as you noticed too.

I'm going to build my first wall in the back of my 2001 chevy blazer for (4) or (6) 15" AA Havocs. I'm not looking to burp or compete really, just move a lot of air and sound good doing it. I currently have two Havoc 15's ported in a 9 cube box, tuned to 38Hz and it sounds pretty decent. I'm looking to step it up and I'm already maxed out for box size without a wall, so thats my next move. I don't know whether to build a bandpass or a large ported wall. I had a 4th order in my old truck (extended cab pickup) and it was one of the best sounding substages I've ever heard, but I don't know how well it would work in an SUV.

Right, it's not in any way a SQ setup (in a car whats the point anyways, I've got home systems for that) but I want it to slam and sound clean. I want to be reasonably flat from the lows in chopped and screwed songs, up to the higher bass in some rock rock songs and electronic music. I usually cross my subs over at 63-70Hz so this would probably be the upper limit for desired response.

Will they recone your old one?

Because you're wiring it to an 8-ohm impedance, everything is in series on the two dual 2-ohm subs. So when one coil lets go, everything stops. (similar to old christmas lights, when one bulb burns out the whole strand turns off) At any rate, as you probably are aware, that one coil which reads open (or invalid) is your problem. There's a chance you snapped the tinsel lead off where the speaker terminal connects to the cone, but you would probably know it. Chances are it's an open coil, a break somewhere in the windings which will need to be reconed. Being a dual voice coil sub, there's a chance it was already broken before in your old setup and you didn't realize it if you were running the coils in parallel. So yes you could very well have damaged it long ago and are just now realizing it by wiring it differently.

Thanks 95Honda, I think you're right. And I'm not intentionally being obtuse about the type of enclosure I want to build, it's just my previous experiences which turned out well with bandpass boxes. Here's a calculated approximation of the setup in my old truck cabin: Gray is ported Blue bandpass Yellow sealed As predicted, the bandpass enclosure turned out excellent. Later on I had Pete K. design me something for the same application and he came up with another 4th order bandpass which worked nearly as well with just one subwoofer. I suppose this is why I continually patronize these enclosures, for me they have worked, although I don't completely know WHY.

Because the 30Hz port peaks in the 40-50 range just like the other port, and is quieter all around to boot. Albeit, the peak isn't quite as bad as the 40Hz port, but it's still plainly obvious where it wasn't as bad on the bandpass boxes. Even if it were completely flat, the current setup isn't loud enough for me. I'm trying to go louder and with better quality. Is that a lost cause?

unlikely.

^ your avatar's great.

I have interchangeable ports, but the 30Hz port doesn't actually extend the low end by any perceivable amount, nor do I really like the way it sounds on the whole. The 40Hz port is considerably louder, but sounds roughly the same which is confusing. With the 30Hz port the subs move considerably even in the low 30s, which they shouldn't if that's the true tuning frequency. But they seem to just move freely around 30Hz, you can't even feel anything. :\ Thats why i went to the 40Hz port..

Yes, but I'm looking to pick up a bit flatter response than my current ported, yet still be loud. Starting to seem impossible...I wonder how Lil Jons or Gmonks sound.

bad ass sub! I'm loving my Havocs and have been trying to push them on my local dealer/shop but he's pretty stubborn with his current inventory although he's personally told me he would put them in his own car. It's about time to buy some more Havocs for my upgrade, maybe just sell them off and step it up..hmm

Alright then, worst case how would the output of (4) sealed 15s in a 12 cu ft mini-wall compare to (2) ported 15s 9.5 cu ft @ 38? (current setup) That might be my route..

Bah, not quite efficient enough for me. I have a bit of a pet peeve when it comes to wasting energy unnecessarily. I would consider a sealed wall if I were trying to stuff 24 15'5 or something crazy like that.

Maybe, with a bit of fiberglass practice and some spare door panels to cut up. I don't really want to tear into the truck too bad, or at least have spare replacement parts in case it doesn't turn out as planned. How about obtaining a flat-ish response from the substage, any particular direction you would recommend to go with the enclosure?

Alright, well supposing it isn't flat in that range then, what would you do? From Pete K, regarding a previous 4th order I built: I'm not too sure about kick drums and exactly what frequencies make up what part of their sound, but I know the subwoofer does play an important part, at least with the sound of recorded kick drums. Rather than try to accentuate any given frequency to enhance this effect I think a flat response will be preferable for a more natural sound. Granted, I know what you're getting at, and yes for a realistic, somewhat accurate kick drum sound you need a substantial midbass stage to keep up and create a believable effect. Difficult to do with sheet-metal doors and no room for 12" PA basses. Numbers and drum types aside, I'm still looking for that in-your chest "thump" which is so elusive to me!

Pulled the box back out for some amp work and box finishing but now that I'm planning on doing the wall it might not go back in.

I wish it were that simple however I don't think it is. The relative loudness of one vs. the other is a topic probably better suited for TL numbers and competition discussions, and I am not too interested in either. My criteria is how it sounds to the ear (or feels). It's difficult to describe exactly what made the sound of a bandpass box a better match in my extended cab pickup than a ported or sealed but two very reputable enclosure designers independently came up with a fairly similar plan based solely on the sound I was after, the punchy, kick-drum in your chest sound. Ultimately one designer concluded that the bandpass enclosure better matched the speakers to the acoustic impedance of the cabin. I think what made the 4th orders sound so good was their relatively flat response, from deep into the subsonics up to around 63Hz where I crossed them over. The ported box I have now is loud, but its peaky nature is less than optimal for serious musical enjoyment. (my purposes) I tried tuning the box to 30Hz, and that helped some but also made sacrifices I didnt have to make in my previous bandpass setup. Now, going from a pickup to an SUV changes things quite a bit I imagine, but if I wall the back off I'm almost creating something of a pickup truck cabin again, correct? So would I be better off with a 4th order bandpass, since it seemed to work so well in the past?

Any reason for the switch? With the same electrical power, and reduced radiating area you're bound to sacrifice performance. so answering whether or not they're a good replacement is difficult.

Interesting helotaxi, I wondered that myself but figured any benefits by reducing high-current devices would be offset by having to run everything at a much higher voltage, although it's possible many of the components are already rated for this. (I'm not familiar with this particular speaker but some quick math says if it were good for 500w output at this 30Ω impedance, the voltage at the speaker terminals would be about 120V AC! Incidentally the same as your power outlet..hmm, do you even see a large transformer on the power supply side of the amp?)

I agree, it sounds like the BL is much more suited to what you're most focused on, loudness. A Q would probably be OK for you, just not ideal. Likewise with the amps. Any benefits of the JL 1000 amp wont be of great concern to you if you're just looking to get loud. Lots of amps can do that, for cheaper. Wasting your money on some of the other features of the JL amp is, well just that, wasting your money. (for your intentions) Use the kicker amp you've got and get a 15" BL. Build a nice big box for it and I know you'll be impressed.

for sure...my two havoc 15's are beatin my truck up pretty badly...I can't imagine 16! (although I do believe cause i sat in that beast at SBN, off )

that's why I won't go out and just buy some crappy $300 saw that I'm going to be annoyed with. skill saw+lots of clamping my straight edge will still have to do

that building your own table saw thing sounds interesting, do you have any more info about this? I need a table saw but I can't afford a proper sized model of good quality

I'm looking to upgrade the midbass performance in my truck, while still blending in with the rest of my equipment and sounding good. I know I will not be able to keep up with my substage ever, because I am a basshead, but thats OK with me. I was looking at a set of the Peerless SLS 8" drivers. They would be mounted in my doors, right next to my set of Pioneer PRS C720 component speakers. Door will be sealed and deadened. I have around 150-200 watts available per channel for just midbass. I'm running stereo with no rear fill. I don't have any external processors but I have a P800-PRS head deck with the rear channels unused. What would I all need, and need to do setup wise, to run dedicated midbass drivers?