buggsson

What's wrong with the Bit One? Car puter, I would guess it depends on what you make it to be able to process? I know a guy who put a Mac Mini in his car, can't really see any limits there, some build theirs from scratch, it is really up to you I would say.

You could have a look at these: http://www.visualizationsoftware.com/gram.html http://www.dewresearch.com/fftp-main.html http://www.filesland.com/companies/PAS-Pro...er-pro-lab.html

That method is still going strong, it is a kind of advanced building method called "constrained layer dampening" CLD, something, I've got teflon memory these days. You can also use sand, liquid nails etc, etc between the layers. Do a search for "Tangen mighty sub" I hope will do the trick, it's famous in DIY circles made in Norway based on a single JBL. I cannot say though if CLD is better or on par with bracing, so I would as others have done, recommend bracing, shelf bracing.

http://www.ebacoustic.it/prodotti.asp look for "Planari" Hertz do the ML500R, it is a bit pricy (maybe) and goes from 700 - 35 000 Hz. I was so tempted by this one a while back.

That seem like the ply only have like 5 ply? Or do I see incorrectly? The 1" BB I'm gonna use have 21 ply if I remember correctly, the more plys, the merrier. A thread with lots of both MDF and ply talk: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=63817

http://www.wholesaleplywood.com/pictures.html I doubt that their comparison is fair, my guess is they used ply with voids, because that is what you see, a void, voidfree is the name of the game.

That's the point. When doing sub boxes there are in essence two ways to do it, for not exiting the frequencies you do not want to exite, either do a heavy box (MDF) or a light but stiff box (BB=baltic burch, or apple ply). I will do BB when the times arrive. There are many box material threads over at diyaudio.com for those interested in the pros and cons of various materials. Edit: I forgot to mention, when doing at least BB or other ply, you can with advantage use a biscuit joiner instead of screws, guess they might work with MDF as well. I would'n want any unnecessary metal in my boxes.

Audison Bit One http://www.audison.eu/ looks to the best, by me that is, If the info is not up yet on their web pages, I might be able to direct you to their extended manual. There are also, if your'e not only interested in the crossover bits, amps with processors integrated into them.

I beg forgiveness if these are not all tube amps: Here's one solution: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1965/caramp.html Panasonic: http://www.automotto.org/entry/panasonic-c...tting-your-car/

Yes ///M5, I'm a slow learner, I should have realized by now that your suggestion for approach is the way, because now when I think of it, I've had similar results/responses earlier as well. Yes, my budget is all inclusive. However, the budget is difficult to nail down in specific sums, because I live in one of the more expensive cities in the world, 31th rank in 2008 and now when the currencies are fluctuating quite a bit, and I don't know if I will by domestic or from abroad, it's hard to say. I have though up a comparative budget so to say. For front system, amp for front system, sub and sub amp and the HU, I was planning on spending equally on all 5 parts of the system. That's a rough estimate, and each part in USD as of today, approx. 600 USD each part. However, I think I will try and make the amps a bit cheaper because I don't believe they impact as much as speakers, and put those money on cables, fuse blocks, door deadening etc instead. Maybe go with the CarPower brand, they are cheap and have a good reputation, at least their mother/sister company, which is Monacor. One car with CarPower made national champions earlier this year if I remember correctly. If I go 3-way, which when after having thought of it for a while, I feel would be the best option, just because of difficulties of spacing the drivers in a suitable way, I will have to look at other sets of drivers, as the ones I've looked at so far, would be too expensive to buy the 3-way versions of (I'm very tempted though). I would then only need one more 2-channel amp for running the tweeters and have a 4-channel amp driving the mid-basses and mids, if I can find drivers that are not so power hungry as the MLKs for example. Or, if I'm lucky, I will find a decent 6-channel amp to drive them all, but they are usually quite low in output, and I plan to be able to max out the mid-bass and mid drivers, because I do'n believe in underpowered drivers. By the way, I will go all active. I am now primarily looking for what to do with the HU issue. I now have a VW OEM HU, double DIN. I might ditch it and go for Alpine HU + Imprint or an Eclipse unit (the only two remaining options), or keep the stock HU and buy a separate processor which I am also looking at for the moment. Not many too choose from, only found 4, but then I don't have that many to choose from, which is a plus, then I'm not the fastest on the block. I need an active cross over, parametric eq (minimum 5 band, 1/3 octave) and TA, and the goal is to find something that will allow me to play uncompressed formats from an iPod, have not found one yet, but I'm still looking, because I'm not that much interested in CDs no more. So first I will go for a HU, then the front system and that will pretty much decide how much is left for the front system amps. Sub and sub amp will come last, because I will have to save up while I'm installing the front system, but will plan for the sub and sub amp while I go along so there will be no nasty problems when it's time for the sub and sub amp. I am quite worried that I will have to upgrade the electric system, but that will have to wait for later. I guess I've forgotten many things even now, but I hope I've been detailed enough for some interesting views to come in and help me out??? PS. As a side issue and to be more flexible in processor choice, what do you all think of running a PA cross over, powered by one of those converters that convert 12v to 240v? I don't think I would manage to build my own power supply. Then the selection would be so much larger. I have actually found a 12v cross over from the PA side, but I have yet to look it over to see if the specs look promesing or not. Edit: And I totally forgot to say that I am stupid enough to be a stickler for published speaker data. I refuse to buy from companies that don't post, or do not reply to friendly inquiries for additional data. My NO NO list is longer than the OK list. You can sort out a lot of drivers that do not fit your preferencies, and if the data cannot be provided, I say good by, there are plenty companies remaining anyway.

For a fixed budget, aught I go 2- or 3-way? I was thinking that by going 3-way rather than 2-way you might be able to get a better overall balance between the differnt areas of the bandwith? Or would I be better off, just going with as good a 2-way system that I can for the same money? And for this front system (6,5" mid-basses), someone said that a 15" sub would be too large to integrate with just a pair of 6,5" mid-bass drivers. I have a WV Passat Variant (station wagon). I would have presumed that the integration was the key, rather than the size of the sub, I've seen that before, once, but I'd like some more opinions on the issue before I take a descision.

In every single car I've been in with an actual front setup, I've never had a problem hearing anything in the back seats. I personally will not give 5c of consideration to anyone than Number 1, the driver when designing my system. But regarding rear speakers, my impression is that they are just meant as fill, like the rearspeakers in a 5.1 home cinema system, but I'm probably wrong.

Have you heard of Carpower Sonic-12? I have not heard about this one, but it migh be worth check it out: Exile Audio XPE12D?

Yes I know where I would put them, or at least where I would try to put them. I've forgot what you call that place, sail panel? The rectangular area on the front door that's close to where the A-pillar meets the dash? Depending on the size of course of the mid. I thought I would try to make some sort of console for the mid and tweeter. The midbass would go in the door. I cannot use the dash (wife............), and the A-pillar is used for airbags so I dont dare to mess with those. I will go active, either way, no passive for me. Yes, I also believe that a 3-way has greater potential, but why I asked the question, is that the 2-way systems that I have on my wish list is already almost all to expensive, so building on them to a 3-way is a NO NO, can't be done (afforded). That is why I thought that perhaps a 3-way for the same sum (hoping cost has anything to do with what you get) might be as good as the 2-way, or with this scenario, 2-way will beat the 3-way hands down? And ///M5, I was vague on purpose, I was hoping for a general discussion on the issue of going for a 2- or 3-way with a fixed budget, if at all such a discussion would be of any use? And the sub issue, was thrown in, because I didn't know what to believe. But now I do. I can be more specific wiht gear if that's what you meant? For 2-way systems that I fancy the most (for no good reason) is CDT HD-62 but with M6 instead, Hertz MLK 165, Radical Audio RA16RE and Seas Lotus (not the ref. series). For 3-way I have not looked that much. I was when I was drooling at the Hertz website that I saw their ML500R and realized I had to put down my foot and say, STOP. That was when the idea struck me that maybe a 3-way might be possible to get as good or better than a 2-way for the same sum, just because it is a 3-way compared to the 2-way. There doesn't really seem to be a good spot in the doors to mount a mid-bass and tweeter if the tweeter is to be close to the mid-bass driver. The front lower corner is all there is. A 3-way might be better in that respect? Regarding the subs, with the criteria I have for choosing candidates, I have found many moore 15" than 12" drivers. But I wanted to be shure that there was a good chance to successful integration with the front system. What more info did I miss to give? By the way, I'm driving a VW Passat Variant (2004)

I am aiming for a Qtc between 0.707 and 0.8 and an F3 around 40 Hz. For the Rl-p 15" I got the following results, using a web based box calculating program: 1. Qtc = 0.7071 Vb = 3.5 F3 = 43.48 2. Qtc = 0.8008 Vb = 2,38 F3 = 44.14 I was just wandering if you seasoned guys know of a way to reduce the F3 a bit further without changing the Qtc too much? For a SQ application, do you reckon that Qtc 0.8 will sound better than the standard flat Qtc 0.707? Or maybe, the F3s above will be low enough in a VW Passat Variant? How low do you want it to go, at the lowest in a car, sealed F3 wise?

So could you, or someone else, please tell me how much higher are we talking about? I would like to learn how high you might be able to go with a sealed and still have sufficient lowend output. I have a WV Passat Variant, (station wagon), would an F3 of around 45Hz still do in your opinion?

I've often seen that running a sub at lower impedance will increase distortion. Is it possible to generalize at all in this question? For a given sub, you have to try it out, or is it possible to say that at a final load of 4 ohm, you are unlikely to percieve distortion? I am asking because, if there is a risk, it might affect both amp and sub choice due to monetary limitations.

I take it from the majority of the answers, that there is little risk of hearing more distortion at 1 ohm then? Very interesting that with the efficiency at varying ohm loads. Take for example the 1 ohm load where the class D amp. is only approx. 60% effective. Does that mean that if I want to run a sub rated at 1000RMS, I would need a class D amp rated at something like 1400RMS or whatever, to getting close to the subs 1000RMS rated output? That would have some impact on my amp selection later on.

So you just have to sum it up, to see if it's gonna be worth it.

What would be the cause of increase due to putting resin on the walls? Increased stiffness? If so, what not go the whole way, and put some glassfiber on at the same time?

95Honda, I think that your advice will be of great help when I start using "more sophisticated" software in the near future. I learn so much by being a member on a forum as this, what if one had to invent the weel once again and again?

Yes, that much I understand. I just want some help to get a bit farther in the correct direction regarding sub driver choice, and for that will try some software. Most of the drivers that I am interested in seem to be very highly regarded in various places, so I hope that I won't get that far off any correct track.

So you suggest that software is totally useless for sub driver evaluations? Not even for sorting out the interesting drivers from the rest? I think there would be quite a few that would beg to differ? (Just my personal obs.)

I must be doing something very wrong! Because I also have these two drivers under consideration and when using the same web based box calculator, I get such a big difference between the Havoc and the Q for the same (or quite similar) alignment. For close to the Qtc 0,707 alignment, the Havoc has a F3 of 44,58Hz and the Q has 35,93Hz. For close to Qtc of 0,8, the Havoc has a F3 of 45,25 and the Q has 36,48. This cannot be correct, but it seems strange that the same calculator does this?

Why is it that you don't think it would model well? I know it says something similar about the RL-s 15" drivers on their home page, but for this I wouldn't know? And yes, I might just heed your advice. It is surely very high on my "want one" list. I forgot to ask, what size would you recommend then, to start with?