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About Notoldjustfeellikeit

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  1. Notoldjustfeellikeit

    Amplifier Gains and Preouts

    I want to make this simple to understand. First off a typical Volt meter will only read two things, DC volt and 60hz AC volts in europe it would be 50hz any other frequency and they will not read properly. Second while you can set gains in theory with a volt meter it will only be accurate with a load on the amp, I.E. a speaker. you would set a 60hz test tone and then increase the amps power until the voltage stops going up, that is the clipping point of the amp, but only at 60hz at may not be the same setting for every frequency but I guess it would be in the ball park. Realize that any change in battery voltage going to the amp will change the clipping point of the amp so its best to adjust it by ear. Second, clipping can be looked at like this, you are asking the amp to provide power for a longer period of time. A typical sine wave is voltage going up and down in a smooth constant manner. Clipping is turning part of the sine wave into DC power both positive and negative. so it goes like this positive voltage up, hold that power there, then go down to negative hold that power there and so on, its like the power being turned on for a longer period of time, also your speaker wants to follow this, goes out, stays out for longer, not moving, creating more heat and less cooling, then the same for the inward stroke. You cant see this happening but if you listen you can hear it. It would take a while but I imagine if you put a 12v dc signal on your sub which would be less than 100w on a 2ohm voice coil, it would eventually burn up not from too much power but from the lack of cooling.
  2. Notoldjustfeellikeit

    Icon 12 follow up thoughts

    I decided to post my follow up thougts in a seperate thread about the Icon 12 I have now. Initially I had decided to install the sub in my commuter car and old honda accord. I have always had response issues with this car with some cancellation in the 60-80hz range. Being unhappy with how the icon sounded in this car I decided to go a different route. I decided to put a system in my Ram3500 truck. I bought a set of Alpine type r 6.5 components an Arc audio xdi 450 amp and used a pioneer double din that I already had. I have 4 6.5 mids in the truck 1 in each door and ran the amp to create a 3 way setup with the front channels of the Arc amp running the tweeters and the 4 mids running of the rear channels. I have to say that I was very impressed with this setup. This little amp is super impressive and I highly recommend it. The doors on the Ram truck are excellent from the factory as they have two panels on each door an inner panels that is very well sealed and the outer door panel. The driver response is very good down to 60hz. For the sub I have tried 4 different enclosures to see which one would give me the sound I was after. I have been in the car audio world for years but always used the typical higher end "big box" brand subs. typical 4-500 watt models with 13-15mm xmax and using multiple drivers to get the out put that I wanted. These newer custom made subs with high xmax and large moving mass cones are a very different animal and have their limitations that no one talks about. First off they are power hungry and really need to be powered with as much as they can handle to really shine. As I have found out frequency response is just the opposite of smaller mass lower powered drivers, they struggle to move enough air to play below 30hz and output typically drops off rapidly on the low end. The Icon is just the opposite it really shines in the ultra low registers and in a box tuned to 30hz will play very loud from 45-30hz with steep rolloff on both the upper and lower end. The upper response is limited by the nature of the driver, its physically harder to move that large mass fast enough to play above 45hz. It actually takes more power to keep the cone under control above 45hz with this type of sub. Low frequencies dont require the cone to move fast, but does require lots of travel. I had not read about this anywhere and this phenomenon was unexpected, Its typcal in all subs but exagerated with this type of sub. I'm used to subs that will play from 30-100hz not 20-50hz. Anyway in the truck I tried a smaller 1.9cuft ported enclosure that I had tuned to 35hz, this improved the upper response from 45-60hz some what but I was still not happy, bass drums didnt sound like bass drums all the upper harmonics were lost as the sub nor the mids could play those notes with any authority A frequency sweep verified a steep drop off from 45-80hz range. I then went with a sealed box, down firing behinid the console in front of the rear seat in my crew cab truck. I tried a couple different volumes and ended up with 1.3cuft. This put everything where I wanted it. A frequency sweep now yields a fairly flat response from 25hz up with a smooth transistion between the sub and the mids, no big dips. Musically it sounds very good, it doesnt have the huge output of the ported boxes but still very loud. Bass drums sound like bass drums, not just a boomy mess that you get when you have a large hole in the frequency response. The drum attacks are quick and precise, actually better than any thing I have had previous to this. The air spring inside the sealed box helps get the mass of the driver moving a sort of bouncing effect you might say. I tried a larger sealed box but the output actually went down and didnt sound as good as with the smaller size. The only thing I have at this point to complain about is simply I need more power. The sub is big and heavy and is hard to adjust amp gains with the amount of power I have to get a linear response. Simply put I run out of power on the sub before I run out power on the mids and highs and , its very easy to drive the sub amp into clipping. If I adjust both amps to max output at the same time, then at lower volumes the sub is lacking in output. Not a complaint about the sub, just something to keep in mind. At some point I will invest in a better amp than this hifonics. In conclusion, if you want high output and like rap, techno type music go ported tuned to 30hz or so. If like me you listen to everything but rap go with the sealed enclosure. If I had the room and money to play with I would go with the ported box from 20-40hz and add in a couple of 8's from 40-80hz and transition to the mids and highs, output would be phenomenal and sound great with whatever you decided to play. the sub is a quality piece and sounds good as long as you know its limitations and know what to expect from it. I know this is kinda long but a review that says it rattles my car like nothing else doesnt tell you much.
  3. Notoldjustfeellikeit

    amp for Icon 12

    Thanks for the offer, I have decided to switch gears, I have decided to install a system in my ram truck rather than my old beater work car. I will have to see how I like the icon in a sealed box in truck rather than my car before I decide on an amp. I may or may not switch to different subs
  4. Notoldjustfeellikeit

    Icon 12 review

    Not at all, most people define midbass as 80hz to 2-400 hz depending on who you ask, some will say as low as 60hz if midbass was 45hz amp companies wouldnt put 45hz boost settings on sub amps that 45hz boost is what gave the old Rockford punch amps their punch . Maybe I wasnt being clear, Im not knocking the Icon itself but this is the new version of the sub and SSA still has enclosure build specs for the older model and it really doesnt work well in the larger box. I played with winisd some last night and it shows a small 1.4cuft tuned to 30hz box for a flat response, that doesnt seem right either. I checked the tuning on my smaller box and its still in the 30-32hz tuning range same as the larger one but it extended the upper frequency response nicely. Most of us like to feel the music as much as hear it and with the response cutting off at 45hz in the larger box there was no impact, no feel when listening to music with bass drum tracks. The smaller box extended the repsonse to 60hz without losing the bottom end and the impact that it was missing before is now there, and it sounds good doing so. I checked amp settings, settings on my Kenwood excelon head unit even turning the crossovers off didnt change the upper response range. That was my first thought initially because the rolloff was so steep it sounded like a crossover issue. I havent ruled out the amp as a possibility for some of the weird response curves. I will update this when I get around to making more changes to the setup. I think this sub is very capable but also much more sensitive to enclosures than any of my previous subs, it certainly is a different animal from the days of the original Kicker subs from a company named Stillwater Designs. yeah I know showing my age now. This sub reminds me of Lanzars first high end sub and the first ones I ever saw that used dual spiders and heavy aluminim baskets, which by the way a lot of companies are still using that same baket design from over 20years ago. you could change its sonic signature with relatively small enclosure changes also.
  5. Notoldjustfeellikeit

    Icon 12 review

    different enclosure tuning makes a huge difference but man to recommed an enclosure design that only plays a narrow band of 15hz is unrealistic especially for a driver touted as an sq class driver. if it cant play from 30-60hz with authority theres little that can be done to make it sound decent, no 6.5 door speaker no matter how good its installed is going to make up for a subwoofer that plays such a narrow bandwidth. Im not building a concert hall, to be honest I have way too much bass for an all out SQ system , but thats how I like it. For now I have it in my smaller ported box and its miles better than the enclosure that SSA recommends as optimum for this sub. It blends pretty well now from 30hz to 60hz then from 60hz up the door components are taking over. Im not knocking the sub itself but SSA really needs to update their enclosure recomendations and make it easier to contact them, I tried and sent an email before I built the box but never got a response.
  6. Notoldjustfeellikeit

    Icon 12 review

    I have been working with my new Icon 12 D2 sub for a little while trying to get the sound like I want. I started with building the recommended enclosure from SSA the optimal one. I built this before I had the sub so I threw in my trusty old infinity perfect and too my suprise it sounded great even though the size of enclosure is outside of what infinity recommended way back then. i expected it to be too low and limit the frequency response but just the opposite happened. This new box extended both the low and upper range of this sub. The upper range, above 50hz has been lacking in my little honda accord. with that in mind I had high expectations for the new sub. I finally got the Icon installed and wired in to my brutus 1500d at 1 ohm. Excited to listen I put in some tracks I am familiar with and was immediatley dissapointed the 50hz plus response I had gained with the infinity was once again gone. No impact at all with kick drums etc. thinking it just needs some break in time I left it alone for a few days, playing with different types of music from rock to bass tracks. The output with the bass tracks is phenomenal but the tight hit in the chest with drums just isnt there. So I tried out my old Punch 250m2 after 20 years this amp still works, though it is showing its age, thinking maybe the hifonics is messed up, compared to my Rockford even with the same subs I just never really liked its sound. Anyway, same response problems, so I get out the tone generator and start going through it. response starts at around 25hz but really wakes up at 29-30hz from 30hz to 45hz output is impressive, from 45hz to 50hz it drops off by about 12db, from 50hz up there is almost no output from the sub. Explains the lack of kick drums as they typically start at 50hz. I have a couple different boxes laying around so I grab a smaller 2cuft ported box I had with a 4" aero port, I dont remember the tuning frequency but I thought why not try it. Frequency response is better, still not great but better the uppper curve drops off at 55hz now rather than 45hz. Kick drums have a much better impact now, though still far below in output from the low end bass notes from bass heavy music. Next I try out a leaky old 1cuft sealed box, a premade box so not the best quality. Output overall is much less than the ported enclosures, as expected, but response is better extending up to 60hz now, with a large peak from 40-45hz , not sure why it so peaky, maybe boundary loading from the car, all the crossovers, and eq settings are set flat at this point. My thoughts on the sub so far, its well built and handles power well, though it does seem power hungry 700 watts from my old amp is barely enough to wake it up. Both voice coils ohm out the same, though not right at 2 ohms but 2.5ohms. I think it has potential but for my musical tastes, which includes everything except rap, its not great-so far maybe after it loosens up some more it will level out in frequency response. For bass heavy techno and rap this sub in the 2.5cuft enclosure tuned to 30hz is very impressive in output and clarity based on past db measurements I have taken this single sub is in the 135-138db range with about 1000watts from the Hifonics 1500 maybe less. if I had the room this sub in that box with another 10" sub running from 40hz up would be an interesting experiment to try. I will continue tuning it not sure at this point if I want to go sealed or a smaller slot ported box, a different amp is in my future as well.
  7. Notoldjustfeellikeit

    amp for Icon 12

    Ive been in audio for longer than I care to admit. I recently decide to upgrade starting with a ssa Icon 12 d2. I currently have an older hifonics bx1500 running it but I dont like that amp much. its sloppy and doesnt put out much power. I used to run rockfords and lower powered subs, back in the day when a 700watt amp was big power. Anyway I am looking for recommendations on a good amp to pair with this sub, but of course wont break the bank in the process. 1500w to 2000w is what Im thinking for power. This sub is replacing a 12" infinity perfect if that tells you how long its been since I seriously researched my purchases. the dyno tests are nice but they tell you nothing about the quality of the amp, and its ability to control a sub properly. Thanks