ibanender

Are you sure a 15 would fit, width wise? Personally I'd swap your JBL's for a pair of SA's and call it a day. 1200 watts is pushing it for a single SA, thats the point it would be worth going to a Zv2. If you're wanting to go with a smaller box you could do a pair of SA8's for sure.

Oh, I forgot to mention the subs.... goal is four Zv2 10's. I think I've figured out a way to make it fit.

There's no point in arguing with somebody who can't read or comprehend sentences because frogs are purple?

When you change words, you change the content. And they also competed in MECA and USACi. Also consider the fact that just because the disc includes the material, doesn't mean they scored well on it. If they didn't have a perfect score, that portion very well could have been the deduction. Winning doesn't prove what equipment was or was not used. That doesn't prove there wasn't bias judging either. You haven't proven they've been used in judging to say people have made them sound good. I never said they couldn't sound good, but there's nothing to back it up. I've been supporting my point, but as you've proven, you aren't reading it and/or changing words so you can argue like you have a fan club to impress.

That sounds like you could have a poor power or ground connection on the amp or at a battery.

It should also be mentioned that the box used is tuned to 35 hz, so it's possible it might just have a steeper roll off below tuning.

I never predrill and never split it. As was said, at least 3" from the edge of the board, problem solved. Also, quit buying shitty MDF. If it's dark, it's no good. The dark stuff is very soft, flexible, and terrible for a box of any quality. I recommend high grade pine plywood for most applications. It's a long stronger, lighter, and cheaper than MDF.

There isn't a problem with odd at the amp, the problem is when each sub isn't the same.

So when the product you like gets outperformed by something else, it's the owners fault for not making a better box? It's not possible that another product actually is better? Re-read what I typed. There is a critical word in there, "or", meaning things could be stressed and there is an alternative scenario. That scenario was the BL curve and its non-linearities. I'm not making anything up, you're selectively reading. It would make sense if you paraphrased correctly. You're replacing "or" with "and" which COMPLETELY changes the meaning. You should change your username to Fox News. And you would be wrong. Songs on the IASCA CD have musical content used during the SQ judging portion that drop into the 20hz region and below (Planet Kryptonite has an 18hz organ, for example). I guess you need to go back and check again. Oh thats right, IASCA is the only SQ organization in the world, my mistake. Prove it wasn't, that goes both ways. When it's proven a judge is biased, they aren't judges anymore. No matter how you think they don't sound bad, there isn't a single consumer that uses them in that fashion. No kid buys a pair of L7 12's and goes "I'm gonna do my best to not go over 120 dB". Where's your video of the sub working in those cars? Where's your Klippel data for that sub? Where's your literacy test proving you know the difference between "or" and "and"? You haven't proven they "work hard" or that you comprehend sentences I type. You've proven nothing but how to talk about an install you don't know about. I've provided real information. When the owner of the car tells me "those don't play during judging" I'm gonna say they're right. When are you going to post your proof the subs are used AND move more than a tiny bit? You're the SQ messiah, so back it up, don't just talk about it.

On the contrary, you just made yourself look ignorant. You're assuming people went from SA's TO AQ's. This was not the case. SA's were put into the AQ boxes. So I guess the SA's are WAY better because they do better in the wrong box when the AQ as an optimal box. Thanks for emphasizing what I just said. I said the BL curve dapers, I didn't say it doesn't taper TILL full excursion. If it did, it would be something like XBL^2 or a really overhung design. Last I checked, the only part of judging that happens at 20 hz is RTA, which isn't anybody in the car, and can sound like total ass and doesn't matter because it's RTA. You just said exactly why SQ is subjective. 1 person can think something is more accurate than another, which is their opinion..... which is subjective. If it wasn't subjective, everybody would score the same at every show with every judge if the system never changed. One year at SBN 1 judges scores were thrown out all together. Why? Because there were 2 or 3 guys that scored approximately 50% lower than the other 2 judges. The judge didnt like those people, so he scored them low. Does that happen in SPL? No. Why? Because SPL isn't subjective, what it does is what it does. In a subjective format, you can fall victim to psycho-acoustics, a poor judge, politics, etc. No, you said L7's sound good, I said at a certain point nothing sounds good and at low levels it's not difficult to make a sub sound good. You should try reading for content, not context. If you can't understand when subs are and are not used, and at what point things go bad, I can't help ya.

Yes, there is a difference, but there is also things like cabin gain that promote SPL gain on lower frequencies. The point being made is that in no instance is the sub being maxed out, or even close to it. Most of where your bad sound comes from where the BL curve tapers off or other components like spiders and surrounds are stressed. This is assuming the cone is stable. Have you competed in SQ or been an SQ judge yourself? I've done both, and seen psycho-acoustics at work. SQ is purely subjective, and I've seen people get scored because of what equipment they ran before they even turned it on. The same applies for who it is. If you're known for sounding good, it immediately sounds better. I tell people to never show what equipment they are running if possible, and if they have to, wait till the judge is done with the score sheet. At a certain point, nothing sounds good. It's simply too loud for human ears to sound as good as it did at a lower level. In fact, humans often perceive a dirty or clipped sound as louder because it's more harsh on the ear, which equates to what something too loud does. If it's crystal clear, you won't be able to tell how loud it is till you have a reference point. This seldom occurs with bass because of the amount of pressure involved on the ear drum.

No, not split. They both get full power. *assumes that there is a non-power limiting crossover in between the two drivers **obviously ALL reasonable crossovers will limit power to the tweeter as 99.9999% of the time they are more efficient and therefore would be significantly louder if there weren't an L-pad circuit to reduce the output of the tweeter The question is a bit moot though. Generically speaking tweeters need almost no power in comparison. Therefore you pick your amp based on what the mid needs to get to a level that you want (assuming it can) and the add the tweeter with a reduction circuit to make it match the output of the woofer. Prove it. Clamp power on a mid and a tweeter using active crossovers so you can't blame it on the passive. Do a full sweep with tones, then do it with music. Post your data.

He's clipping it. Other than the fact that it's tuned too high for music, the box has nothing to do with it. It might be box related if it didn't get louder after a certain point, but the fact that it gets quieter and sounds muffled tells me it's getting clipped. Clipping doesn't always cause it to get quieter, in fact it usually causes an increase in output. More information is need. What amp? What electrical modifications do you have done? More specs on box? Does it cause an increase in output? Yes. Do you understand why? I'm guessing you don't because if you did and actually did real world testing what I said would make sense. I didn't say if it was clipping the input or output either. If the input is clipped, the amp can be doing 5 watts and have the same effect. If the equipment hasn't died yet, I'd be willing to guess the HU or preamp in the amp is clipping. Also true. That's a result of clipping the HU or preamp. It was overdriving it. Sounds like you had a Pioneer LOL

It probably wasn't built or designed right. A wall is a wall, if it's done right it doesn't matter what pillar it's at. Perfect example: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/subwoofers/483167-48x-sundown-sa-10s-build.html None of the cab is cut, so it's technically behind the C pillar. Oh, and it does 160's @ 34 hz now. Big differance between Hank's wall and most other walls. Weak score anyway. Just finish a 8 12" wall doing 160's from 30Hz-55Hz. To that, I say put up or shut up.

They were designed by Jacob at Sundown. They are quite similar, not copies, more like cousins. That doesn't necessarily make them cousins either. For legal reasons I can't mention names, but there is a big name manufacturer that has 1 line of subs designed and built by somebody else, who owns another manufacturer. If you looked at a driver from each manufacturer, you couldn't tell they were designed by the same person unless you know 2 very specific things to look for. In this case, there are some similar design methods, but that isn't always the case. I believe I know who you mean, were the designs originally stolen from someone else? Lulz. I bet you don't know who I mean, and I think you may be referring to DC Audio (Direct Copy Audio) who very clearly doesn't design anything and takes other companies proven designs, and fudges them to make them cost less.

Check your wires and make sure you don't have a single strand potentially arcing or touching metal. Double check all your power and ground connections at the amp and battery also, might have vibrated loose.

Is the SA8 a great sub? Yes. Is it very capable? Yes. Will 55% less cone area be as loud? Don't get your hopes up. I don't have any experience with those JBL's, but you're trying to make up quite a bit of difference when you aren't starting with an absolutely terrible sub to start with. I'm not saying they can't do it, but don't get disappointed if it doesn't.

They were designed by Jacob at Sundown. They are quite similar, not copies, more like cousins. That doesn't necessarily make them cousins either. For legal reasons I can't mention names, but there is a big name manufacturer that has 1 line of subs designed and built by somebody else, who owns another manufacturer. If you looked at a driver from each manufacturer, you couldn't tell they were designed by the same person unless you know 2 very specific things to look for. In this case, there are some similar design methods, but that isn't always the case.

Good luck with that.

I think the real answer has been completely overlooked. It's a generic answer, yes, the power is split. Is it split evenly, not necessarily, but you aren't necessarily getting 100 watts either. Bottom line is, the 100 watts is distributed, not per driver.

Looks pretty solid to me, as long as the welds are.

It probably wasn't built or designed right. A wall is a wall, if it's done right it doesn't matter what pillar it's at. Perfect example: http://www.caraudio.com/forums/subwoofers/483167-48x-sundown-sa-10s-build.html None of the cab is cut, so it's technically behind the C pillar. Oh, and it does 160's @ 34 hz now.

He's clipping it. Other than the fact that it's tuned too high for music, the box has nothing to do with it. It might be box related if it didn't get louder after a certain point, but the fact that it gets quieter and sounds muffled tells me it's getting clipped.

World Champion in SQ for years had 6 L7 15"s....... And for quite some time the SQ champ (Gary Biggs) had a pair of SoloX 18's. What's your point? The 18's didn't even play till they did the SPL portion. When I competed in SQ I had a judge tell me there was too much bass from the subs in the back when the amp wasn't even on. I believe this was said because I did a 153 before that. Subs don't sound bad because of their shape, Xtant's hex sub actually sounds quite good. Both Eldridge and Biggs, as well as about a dozen other competitors, have used L7's as the subwoofers in their system for the SQ judging portion as well. Consider this, at what sound levels are the testing? How much are the drivers actually moving? Even if they are moving 1mm, that's not enough use of the suspension for anything to sound terrible. 120 isn't difficult to make sound good.

World Champion in SQ for years had 6 L7 15"s....... And for quite some time the SQ champ (Gary Biggs) had a pair of SoloX 18's. What's your point? The 18's didn't even play till they did the SPL portion. When I competed in SQ I had a judge tell me there was too much bass from the subs in the back when the amp wasn't even on. I believe this was said because I did a 153 before that. Subs don't sound bad because of their shape, Xtant's hex sub actually sounds quite good.