ibanender
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Posts posted by ibanender
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i assume thats just a test fit considering theres no deadener right?
MOAR PICS!
Deadening the trunk does nothing when you have 4 18's in a wall. Pretty much anything behind the B-pillar does nothing with a wall, if it's sealed off.
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Do you operate your business by yourself, own manage and do all the work?
I own, manage, operate, and do all the work for 2 businesses I own.
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Nicest '10 accord I've seen, I hope he has a security system.
Security system doesn't do anything when they take the whole car. The trunk will not be able to be opened without knowing the sequence to open it (a bit of trickery on my part) and you won't be able to get the subs out without plenty of time on your hands, in which you earned it.
And a guard dog, shotgun, and an enclosed garage with a security on it, that calls the police when it goes off
But still is a super nice Accord in my opinion!
And in the case of my shop (still a work in progress), by the time you get TO the garage, you've already been on 5 cameras.
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Nicest '10 accord I've seen, I hope he has a security system.
Security system doesn't do anything when they take the whole car. The trunk will not be able to be opened without knowing the sequence to open it (a bit of trickery on my part) and you won't be able to get the subs out without plenty of time on your hands, in which you earned it.
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Steel coming next week, waiting on a time frame on wood.
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Are you willing to cut into the bed to fit like 4 12"s or 4 15"s? lol
Lol, that's a big step right there.
A worthwhile step! That amp is way too much for those subs daily. I don't think there is enough space to do 4 8's properly either, at least not without humping the steering wheel. After displacements you're looking at 4 cu. ft., maybe more.
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The softer spider is in -- when Sean comes up again testing will be done to make sure we are where we need to be on it.
In the mean-time I am making another production run of SA-8 v.1 as so many are still being sold.
Looking like next week sometime, possibly early in the week, depends when my steel for the Accord gets here.
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Output wise, it's about the same as the NSv1, but it has a little better sound to it. Based on my voltage drop, it seems to be more efficient as well.
Can't believe you just said that...
Output wise, it's about the same as the NSv1, but it has a little better sound to it. Based on my voltage drop, it seems to be more efficient as well.
That would lead me to believe there is a lower impedance peak, not efficiency. You're talking about SYSTEM efficiency right?
There appears to be less voltage drop at tuning (where my voltage dropped significantly), but I still had the same audible output. If it takes less power to make the same output, the driver is more efficient. NSv1 did not have a shorting ring, Zv3 does, that means less inductance. Inductance, to put it as simple is possible, is wasted power in terms of efficiency. My impedance may have gone up at tuning (less power output, less voltage drop) and my impedance possibly went down at higher frequencies (more power, greater output) as my response leveled out above tuning. It used to be kinda peaky at tuning, Zv3 is not, and collectively as loud as the peaky spot was with the NSv1.
Again, outside of subjective sound quality observations, the rest is speculation.
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Output wise, it's about the same as the NSv1, but it has a little better sound to it. Based on my voltage drop, it seems to be more efficient as well.
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I think your challenge is impossible to answer. Too many unknown variables.
According to people who believe specs are the answer to everything, those variables don't matter. You get it.
^Pretty much agree with this and need to point a few other things out.
The parameters you listed have no bearing on sound quality. At all.
The parameters you need to take into consideration when trying to figure out if a driver will have low distortion are not normally published along with many car audio drivers, with the exception of Le, and in some cases Bl curve. What you really need to know if you are going to determain driver sound quality (low distortion) is a measurement of exactly that, distortion. You will want to see what type of harmonics the driver produces, non-linear behavior and Fr adnormalities. But again, most manufacturers don't publish this data, they normally just tout the features they have that combat this.
Now as far as determaining sound quality from basic T/S parameters as you posted, you will be able to predict the type of response you will get (ripple, group delay, Fr, etc) based on enclosure Q and you will know when the driver should start behaving non-linearly due to linear excursion limits.... But that is about it. And the sound quality of the chosen alignment is also very subjective. In all reality, a flat alignment with minimal ripple often sounds thin to most people, even though it is probably the most accurate alignment the driver will perform in...
So really, nobody can answer your question with your parameters with anything more than heresay.
Oh yeah, I have probably built 300 or so enclosures, "out in the shop"
While you are correct, there are different aspects that may be an indicator as to how it may sound, you are also correct in that majority of manufactures do not publish this data. So, you have to go off of what IS available. All of those specs are commonly available to compare between drivers.
Again, read the first post, it's quite simple. From the information provided, come to a conclusion, in any application you see fit as long as the application is equal between drivers. If you can not come to a conclusion for one reason or another, don't make excuses, DO NOT POST (this should also further my point that there are too many people on forums that post about things they don't understand or know about).
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I have a little experiment I'd like to conduct. I don't wanna see any name calling, trash talking, or otherwise. I just want to see which you feel will sound better, not necessarily louder (but can comment on it) and WHY based solely on paper specs supplied by the manufacturer. I'm talking actual quality overall, what is the better sounding driver. They are all 12" subs. Here are your options, rank them in order best to worst:
Option 1:
RMS power: 500 watts
Coil config: dual 4 ohm
Sensitivity: 88 dB 1w/1m
Fs: 33.6
Qts: 0.47
Vas: 3.119 cu. ft.
Xmax: 10 mm
Mounting depth: 6.73"
Option 2:
RMS power: 1000 watts
Coil config: dual 4
Sensitivity: 96 dB 1w/1m
Fs: 36 hz
Qts: 0.76
Vas: 1.28 cu. ft.
Xmax: 11 mm
Mounting depth: 9.2"
Option 3:
RMS power: 350 watts
Coil config: dual 4
Sensitivity: 87 dB 1w/1m
Fs: 30 hz
Qts: 0.45
Vas: 1.94 cu. ft.
Xmax: 25 mm
Mounting depth: 6.1"
Option 4:
RMS power: 300 watts
Coil config: single 4 ohm
Sensitivity: 86 dB
Fs: 28 hz
Qts: 0.67
Vas: 2.53 cu. ft.
Xmax: 11 mm
Mounting depth: 5.4"
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Honestly I couldn't care less about the subjective reviews that will be posted. Far more interested in the T/S parameters and other objective measurements you have, such as an FR graph
It makes sense to not care how a speaker sounds in actuality rather than how the paper says it sounds.
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I built a Z v.3 12" with production coil -- with about 5 minutes of break-in :
RE: 4.01 ohms (D2 coil)
FS: 45.68 Hz
Qes: 0.4995
Qms: 4.3798
Qts: 0.4484
Le: 5.54 mH
Vas: 13.85 L
BL: 24.50
Mms: 260g
Cms: 46.64 uM/N
Sens: 85.97 dB 1w/1m
BL^2/RE: 150
Specs are not too far off the original NS v.1 model... basically a very well rounded daily sub with great SPL potential to boot. The linear x-max by 70% BL is 23.5mm one-way as well.
I am very satisfied with this result... the coil is now an 8-layer flat coil with 60mm WW (20% longer than NS v.1) made in the USA and sent to our factory in China. So what we have here is a driver that will out-perform the NS v.1 thermally, be close to it in SPL, and cost less money
I can't complain !Coincidentally, my truck that will be at your shop on Friday happens to have an NSv1 12 in it that might like to be replaced by a Zv3 12......
We can try it out.
Let do it. I won't have time to install the new batteries in there I don't think. Maybe, we'll figure it out.
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I built a Z v.3 12" with production coil -- with about 5 minutes of break-in :
RE: 4.01 ohms (D2 coil)
FS: 45.68 Hz
Qes: 0.4995
Qms: 4.3798
Qts: 0.4484
Le: 5.54 mH
Vas: 13.85 L
BL: 24.50
Mms: 260g
Cms: 46.64 uM/N
Sens: 85.97 dB 1w/1m
BL^2/RE: 150
Specs are not too far off the original NS v.1 model... basically a very well rounded daily sub with great SPL potential to boot. The linear x-max by 70% BL is 23.5mm one-way as well.
I am very satisfied with this result... the coil is now an 8-layer flat coil with 60mm WW (20% longer than NS v.1) made in the USA and sent to our factory in China. So what we have here is a driver that will out-perform the NS v.1 thermally, be close to it in SPL, and cost less money
I can't complain !Coincidentally, my truck that will be at your shop on Friday happens to have an NSv1 12 in it that might like to be replaced by a Zv3 12......
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Great challenge !
I want to see that.
You will be, as soon as I start LOL. I'm picking up all the equipment next week after the subs are built. I have to figure out how much steel and wood I'm gonna need to I can order that too, it's not off the shelf stuff. I also have a custom job to do in a truck very quickly when it gets out of the interior place too. I'll post that in another thread before it hits news stands.
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ibanender same here.
my first center console build i wasnt very happy with... downfiring, aeroport forward.
once i decide what i want to run next i will be building either upfiring slot backward or sub front firing port up firing
with port front firing you do get alot of rattle though... got annoying at times
I still think port back, sub back will do best, except maybe sub up, port back. I don't have any rattling problems except the occasional noise from the very back wall interior panel, which isn't deadened yet. If you do up firing, definitely make sure you're roof is deadened.
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After some discussion with the owner of the car, the install is changing. Now we're going to do 4 Zv2 18's in a wall.
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If you wanna keep it loud, don't put deadener at all.
well thats what they said about the crx's when they first got used but now everyone and there mother with a crx dampen's them.also the next best thing is there is only a couple of interior panels.so it will be easy to dampen it and test and remove with in minutes
Um, no one deadens them. Where did you get this information from?
Mine's deadened, and the loudest CRX's are deadened as mentioned. If I can do 152's with a single SA8, I'm gonna say deadening probably helped.
The SA can take some good burp power... we have done 2.2k on an SA-8 stock copper coil @ 68 hz -- and they use a smaller 2" coil vs 2.5" on the bigger SA
Yup, and not only did I do it once, I've done it hundreds of times without failure. I'd do a pair of SA's before a pair of Z's in that application.
The SA can take some good burp power... we have done 2.2k on an SA-8 stock copper coil @ 68 hz -- and they use a smaller 2" coil vs 2.5" on the bigger SA
The SA-8's are little beasts, but that is just INSANE!!
152.2 in the kick, 148.9 sealed on the dash worth of insane
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I'm on the mobile phone, so i will be brief.. much to my relief the box sounds spectacular! Absolutely crisp and clean, it doesn't get violent at all. Other boxes ive had 8s would struggle with certain songs, requiring me to turn down the gain a hair, where this box held strong. I'm amzed
Have you had those 8's in any other boxes to compare? I ask because you said you've had other 8's that struggled.
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CRX's are NOT instantly loud, and less cabin space does NOT = louder. There's a lot to be said for vehicle acoustics, some are better than others, and that applies for SQ and SPL. The Blazer will be louder in no wall scenarios.
WTF are you smoking? Unless the car has been wrecked, then yes, as long as you know even a little about them then they are instantly loud.....
So why don't you have one, and why are there other vehicles used, and why are Explorers and Cherokees beating CRX's? I can think of 3 people right off that combined have had 6 or 7 CRX's, none of which were loud, only 1 was wrecked. Why is the vehicle excuse used all the time? Every time somebody has anything pretty loud, it's because of the vehicle? What about Excursions, are those loud? How about a no wall Excursion doing 158's @ 29 hz on the dash? Must be because Excursions are loud.....
No? Didn't you just say "The Blazer will be louder in no wall scenarios?" So why can't a CRX be louder than a Blazer if the Blazer is louder than the Mitsu?
CRX's can be louder, but it doesn't become an instantly loud setup because it's a CRX or any other vehicle. You still have to know what you're doing like with any other vehicle.
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It is something I have considered but haven't seen a huge market for at this time since we offer multiple coil configurations people can get the power they need @ 1 ohm.
My problem is i have 2 subs with quad 1 ohm coils. So is it more exspensive to make one run at 2 ohm.
I think the problem is having quad 1 ohm coils. There's no reason to have a quad coil sub unless you plan on running 8 amps to it.
Well they don't make the sub that i wanted with any other coil options so thats what i had to go with.
Most amps, class D inclusive, are not most efficient at the lowest rated impedance... In fact, they usually takes a dump at efficiency on the bottom of load tolerance... And dampening goes to hell....
Have you tested efficiency at different loads before? I've tested Class D's that are more efficient at lower impedance than higher, until below rated, then it just goes to hell. It's all subject to the components used.
What subs are they?
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CRX's are NOT instantly loud, and less cabin space does NOT = louder. There's a lot to be said for vehicle acoustics, some are better than others, and that applies for SQ and SPL. The Blazer will be louder in no wall scenarios.
WTF are you smoking? Unless the car has been wrecked, then yes, as long as you know even a little about them then they are instantly loud.....
So why don't you have one, and why are there other vehicles used, and why are Explorers and Cherokees beating CRX's? I can think of 3 people right off that combined have had 6 or 7 CRX's, none of which were loud, only 1 was wrecked. Why is the vehicle excuse used all the time? Every time somebody has anything pretty loud, it's because of the vehicle? What about Excursions, are those loud? How about a no wall Excursion doing 158's @ 29 hz on the dash? Must be because Excursions are loud.....
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2010 Accord build
in Sundown Audio
Posted
And, thanks to a certain few douche bags on this forum that Mark and Aaron won't do anything about, or actually support, I won't be posting on this forum anymore. So, you can find the build in it's entirety and going forward, here http://www.splbassx.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11208&st=0