kirill007

why would i have a woofer with my name on it and not try to make money? why would i have a clipping tool and not try to make money? of course i am, the real question is do my products work and the answer is YES. This is what SM says about the woofer selling and clipping selling, he makes money off it. But he also says his products works for what it's intended for, it can't do the same things DMM's can do or O-scope's but it does it's job. Woops, haven't seen he has answered himself.

i don't know if you're trying to insult me, i don't know why you are trying to get personal, i"m just here for good info. You still haven't shown me a link or a article that supports your opinion on clipping. So please show me. A reason for using percentage is probably because he wants to explain it simple. You only understand things properly if u can explain them in laymen's terms.(Einsteins words, and i agree.) Seems like you are emotional, because you say SMD this, SMD that, Steve this, steve that... (not trying to argue with you, just saying what i read.) (Excuse me for saying 30kw amp, it's the t15k, i was confused.)

That's why it is only usable on 1000hz and 60hz test tones. You say "we" have to research how clipping is the same as "clean" power, but there isn't any article that i have found where they did a good experiment which proves that clipping is not worse then nonclipped power.( i've only seen honda95 his experiment and you jumping on the same horse and saying it's correct, although Fi has made a few experiments themselves and they are a more relaible source, and they say it IS worse on a subwoofer) Not only by the heat it creates but also the wear on the spiders and added stress on the cone and triple joint assembly. Only theory, no practical tests(?) is what i have seen. (PLEASE show me a few links or articles. i would love to be wrong ) The "tool" is made to detect clipping, and that is what it does, get the most "clean" power out of a amp in a handy and simple device. It's not made to measure power or to see if the driver can handle the power, that is not it's job. You are saying tony d'amore isn't a good engineer? That the RF 30kw is a amp like all others? Either fancy algorithm and only one set frequency or really fancy algorithm. 60to 1kHz is a HUGE range. Even still they aren't doing it right. (even .25Hz can make a huge difference depending on how the are approximating their algorithm) You should re-read the thread. Scott himself came on and agreed with 95 and myself. Nick was not comparing the SAME power, but using more power in his clipped signal. On top of that I NEVER said to research clipping, just how power is defined. It makes it VERY simple. That tool was NOT meant to measure clipping, it can't. Not possible. How do you write an algorithm to look for a squared off wave and what are its limits? Clean power doesn't matter. The only thing that tool was meant to do was to make SM money. Has nothing to do with engineering, nor with the engineer that designed it. He did so based on SM market intelligence and not based on making a true tool. Stop reading into what is being said and instead take it at face value. The thing is a HUGE waste of money. Completely ridiculous. You're wrong. It's not a range between 60 and 1khz. It's NOLY 1khz OR 60hz, nothing inbetween or around it.( so 2 set frequencies) I don't know that much about writing algoritmes that complicated, but how do you make algoritmes for the "more advanced" tools to detect clipping? Because they work at all ranges.(almost all is what i mean.) I don't know SM nor you, nor tony, but i do know the RF amp has good technology in it nor do you know SM or what his plans are. I do believe he wants a tool for less "rich" people to detect clipping. Until it comes out and nobody has tested it i will stay with my opinion and you with yours since that is what they are.

That's why it is only usable on 1000hz and 60hz test tones. You say "we" have to research how clipping is the same as "clean" power, but there isn't any article that i have found where they did a good experiment which proves that clipping is not worse then nonclipped power.( i've only seen honda95 his experiment and you jumping on the same horse and saying it's correct, although Fi has made a few experiments themselves and they are a more relaible source, and they say it IS worse on a subwoofer) Not only by the heat it creates but also the wear on the spiders and added stress on the cone and triple joint assembly. Only theory, no practical tests(?) is what i have seen. (PLEASE show me a few links or articles. i would love to be wrong ) The "tool" is made to detect clipping, and that is what it does, get the most "clean" power out of a amp in a handy and simple device. It's not made to measure power or to see if the driver can handle the power, that is not it's job. You are saying tony d'amore isn't a good engineer? That the RF 30kw is a amp like all others?

M5 or Impious. Could you explain me why it is useless? and it won't work like advertised? And M5 you do know that the guy who designed the RF 30kw amp, is making this? Tony D'amore. Why would the algoritm be wrong? He has a vid that shows it works almost as good as a o-scope, difference is small.

adrian. Most wouldn't even hear the difference between quite a lot of clipping and without clipping. I don't know if that training works,because i haven't tried it. That clipping tool won't cost much. To the OP, why do you say he is trying to make more money again?(If it's about the SMD subs,he doesn't makes money on that.) He gives out money and amps and subs and components and deadeners, if you win system of the month, so i don't think he does it for the money.

Lol, all subs work in winISD. Read the bold...and while youre at it, read this quote from Nick- All subs work in winISD. winISD isn't a program made to calulate how big a box needs to be, it doesn't predict's a enclosure. That is not what winISD is designed for..... atleast not car audio subs.( or other subs that aren't standard in the program.) If u use winISD for that you are using it wrong. Summarisation: "winISD won't predict "the perfect" enclosure." (atleast not for a lot of subs, especially car-subwoofers) Well, why are car audio subs standard in the program then? I know my version had RE and Adire and even a few others I can't remember off the top of my head. And you say it can't predict the perfect enclosure, then why do you type in box size? It isn't so you can play around with box size, port area and tuning to get the "perfect" box? Sure it doesn't hand the exact box specs and say here's the best one for your install. But that doesn't mean it can't be used that way. Like Nick said, it is used to compare box A to box B, and Sub a to sub B. Is it going to be dead on? No. But I'm sure if you doubts on a subs response in a certain enclosure, it can give you something to look at. It might not be a 100% right but I'd rather look at a graph then spend hundreds of dollars buying the wrong speaker and building a totally wrong enclosure, just because Joe Blow on the forum said without any real proof. Just need to know how to use the program. Its not total useless. I've used it to calculate tuning, and that's it really. Worked very well. Please read my comments better, i said only for subs that are listed standard in the program it will work. Most of the suggestions winISD makes isn't correct, it's made by guys that have developped the program in thier free time and out of their own experiences.(i don't trust freeware that much, although i don't have real complaints about winISD because it does what it is made to do) It won't give you a perfect box or else everyone would have amazing sq and loud subs It does give a decent start where you need to look. You can learn from the program, know what changes will affect something else. Not ALL graphs made are accurate,some are, others are around the correct values. He didn't say you can compare speakers (only boxes)... Because that isn't what the program is made for, so in some cases it can be correct, others it will be far off. I said it won't predict the correct box, which it doesn't. You have to fiddle with things. I never said it was useless, please read what i said don't try to add more things or interpret it you're way because it will be wrong. It works perfect for tuning and knowing how much port area you need.

I don't get why you would want to use weaker MDF on the inside?(to cover costs? if that's the case then do it) If you have the money just use plywood twice and resin+fiberglass on the inside and then smooth everything out.(by sanding) Offcourse use bracing. Somthing like this: (although i use a slight different variant)

Lol, all subs work in winISD. Read the bold...and while youre at it, read this quote from Nick- All subs work in winISD. winISD isn't a program made to calulate how big a box needs to be, it doesn't predict's a enclosure. That is not what winISD is designed for..... atleast not car audio subs.( or other subs that aren't standard in the program.) If u use winISD for that you are using it wrong. Summarisation: "winISD won't predict "the perfect" enclosure." (atleast not for a lot of subs, especially car-subwoofers)

AA/Fi subs dont work well in winISD FYI Even IF the program worked well for the subs, there would be too many variables (car, box setup, box size, port area, music. amp power, etc) to just flatout compare the subs' frequency response in the program Lol, all subs work in winISD. There is only one problem, this is how the response wil be in a open space.(not in a house or something else that has boundaries.) Gopala: Pick the Q and a 800-1000w RMS amp and put it in a box tuned to 23hz..

All about cooling. EDIT: got ninja'd by the owner

RAM his test is invalid. 1/ Both amps produce more then 400w, and he was in the 0-400w class. 2/Do you think both amps have the same gain pots? I don't think so. (and if they have, design on the amp is different) 3/The amp was louder at a certain freqeuncy, doesn't mean it will do the same power over every freqeuncy, in his case he did get a gain. Other may not. There are to many variables to be able to say the amp is better then the other one, because in YOUR situation it's better.

Plywood are layers of 'wood', so it is more effective if you do it with plywood it makes it one thicker piece of plywood. If u use only 1 ply of the 12 plies(spelling?) in the plywood it should have the same strenght according to him? It does get stronger if u layer it. And another reason why to atleast double layer it is that with heavy subs the screws tend to snap out. So thicker means more "meat" the screw can grip. EDIT: Normally you can get more strenght if u use a good bracing technique. Adding layers is less effective then bracing, but the airflow is more obstructed when u use too much bracing. The key is to find the right amount of layers and bracing

Fs won't play that big a part in the sub bass game either So a sub with a 45 hz fs will play 20 hz just like a sub with a 30 hz fs? In an anechoic environment, no, in an enclosure is a different story. Do you listen to your music in an anechoic room? Do you think he knows what a anechoic room is? And the answer is no

I just believe in fairness. If the moderation staff had such a problem with me, a PM should of took place, explaining what I was doing was becoming a problem. Which I would kind of argued about. But some of my post was a tad of the prick side, I admit. But for the most part, they wasn't that bad. And after the PM, if I didn't change the problem, then I would be banned for a length of time. Which mods did quote my post and say stuff, but never a warning. The users said I would get banned, I just didn't see people I just made look like idiots, have any real authority to warn me. Permanent ban seems harsh over nothing. That's what I don't think is fair. Which basically what I think it boils down to, I brought up **** failed, and David don't want nobody to remind anybody he failed. Oh well. Seriously enough ranting. I'm blogging it seems now. You did got a warning, atleast one, from candyman i think that's his name, i even quoted him on this thread. You say other people are getting butthurt, but what is this thread all about then? (you being butthurt and spreading misinformation out of only you're point of view? )

isn't that what you did in the last thread you posted in? EDIT: 13? could be possible.. But i meant mentally (I have a cousin who surfs SMD and SSA and other sites and he has become 13 this year, so it's possible )

Ford302, you think we don't have anything better to do then surf the internet? >< And i did post a link.. Judging from you're post you are not older then 17 years(mentally), and still there are quite a few 17 year olds which aren't acting childish...

"why is it EVERY SINGLE thread i go to and FORD302REDNECK is in he is arguing or starting shit with someone? is anyone else tired of this? i really wish he would take a vacation but OP listen to super jay and kingsuv they know what they are talking about and have company's or are a part of company's and they are talking from experience " Quoted from a member, he is not a mod, but is in the thread i linked. If members are starting to argue.. then think about what mods have to think about you EDIT: "Ford is always being negative. that's his nature i suppose. " (another member) "its funny that he is guessing how it works and arguing with people who are in the business and KNOW how it works first hand. " (again, another member, so the third one in 1 thread..) "THANK YOU for pointing this out... I go to a topic start reasing notice redneck is in it and i cant post because I KNOW he will argue with everything i say. Anyways, keep your head up. Dont let people tell you you cant. You will never learn anything unless you push past the bull shit. " (Fourth member in the same thread..) "I'm going to just come right out and say it. STFU Every time your name comes up in the recent topics its almost guaranteed that its some negative comments acting like you hung the fuckin moon. Get off your know it all high horse, come back down to earth and act like you even know wtf humble pie is. You dont come off as an arseho. you are one, and you keep proving it by continuously spewing bullshit everytime you post trying to make your E Dick look biger. Its annoying as fuck and has gotten real old to A LOT of people on the forum. Including the staff members. " (this was a comment from a MOD, so it's a warning.)again in the same thread.)

I actually seen a lot of your posts over there and they all seem to be negative. You were always hating on someone over there and bashing all the vendors products. Please link post where I bashed vendors. Or actually negative comments. Examples work best, not what you think. first link i found, i could take time to find more but i won't, i don't have all time of the world. If you want to be different, spread the word of evolution during Sunday mass. Lol And ford302, because you did a few good things doesn't means you have to neglect the bad things

Hmm do i spy some website bashing in here? :s And sometimes you were a dick... You just wanted to start arguments, it's almost like you enjoyed starting e-fights. You won't get banned meantioning **** , nor talking bad about it, but company bashing isn't allowed, like on this forum. So if you combine all of it, maybe it's a reason to ban you. SMD isn't a public forum, it's a private forum, if you want you're account back i can maybe help you..

You don't even understand the test. And now you are just making shit up, lol... If you had a clue, you would understand that I never said all waveforms were the same, quite the opposite really. This is why you, and most other people who arm chair quater back this are full of BS... You just make crap up out of gut feelings. But anyway, this is truly a dead horse... I am done beating it... I don't know what this means, my knowledge of english doesn't goes that far. But i do understand, only problem is all of you're graphs are down. But i'm done discussing since my language makes up for a lot of mistakes and NDMSTANG tells exactly what i want to tell.

Don't normalize in voltage but in power. Confusing to read when we are discussing the effects of power and clipping as the waveform has a huge effect on the amount of power. You're test is invalid, equipment(not actually subwoofers) and tones(freqeuncy) were wrong. I like that you atleast try it, but you shouldn't us this as a good scientific test, because it wasn't. And subsam(and nick with the pictures) have already explained why, sqaure wave vs sine wave are just physics, the wave is more "powerfull" with a square wave.(in terms that everyone understands) EDIT: what do you mean with the next comment? (That's awesome.. Lol.. ^^^ It obviously wasn't scientific....... ) Yes you tried to be scientific, but it wasn't scientific enough, you need to have the correct enviromnemt.(and a controlled one.) Huh?? Invalid? Perhaps science eludes you. Test was spot on and way better from a scientific perspective than I have ever seen ANY manufacturer do. Well excuse me, but if he uses midrange/tweeters to test instead of subwoofers where this is all about. And he uses too high freqeuncies.(170hz and 1000hz) The subwoofers don't use any of the cooling methods a "decent" LF driver has. Good job for him trying to do it, but you can't use the results on SUBwoofers with SUBfreqeuncies. The higher the freqeuncies the less it matters if the wave is square or a sine.(in heat that is.) DIRECT QUOTE from the link honda95 gave : "A speaker that fails at 100 watts fails at 100 watts. 100 watts of a sine, 100 watts of a square, 100 watts of music averaged..... This is a fact..." He tries to tell square wave=sine wave , that this is a fact, which it isn't.(he only concluded it from his tests.) And somebody else on this forum had a test with square vs sine waves, although it was a different subject.(SPL instead of heat) His conclusions were that on lower power the square wave is louder, if lots of power is applied the sine wave is louder.(out of that we can conclude that power compression occured, or because it doesn't moves smooth pressure doesn't get's build up enough. And not enough pressure will build up in the forced cooling from the subwoofer.)

You're test is invalid, equipment(not actually subwoofers) and tones(freqeuncy) were wrong. I like that you atleast try it, but you shouldn't us this as a good scientific test, because it wasn't. And subsam(and nick with the pictures) have already explained why, sqaure wave vs sine wave are just physics, the wave is more "powerfull" with a square wave.(in terms that everyone understands) EDIT: what do you mean with the next comment? (That's awesome.. Lol.. ^^^ It obviously wasn't scientific....... ) Yes you tried to be scientific, but it wasn't scientific enough, you need to have the correct enviromnemt.(and a controlled one.)

It's VERY audibly different, and in the competition world it can be the difference between 1st and 8th place. I was testing 128 dB @ 25 hz and still had more volume in it, that's just the reference volume I used for testing. I might have a 130 @ 25 hz in it, the room is 14 x 25 with 2 good sized openings into a foyer and kitchen. True, but i don't think you hold competitions at you're house And i don't think people use ears in competitions instead of SPL-meters. (even 0.2db can give you the first place or 3...) Well i don't think M5 was talking about sub 130dB levels.. more above 150..(but i don't know, i do know that if u get above 150 the difference is much more noticable then from 128 to 132. )

Audioque would be you're best bet for the budget. But hifonics aren't 'good' amps, they are 'ok' amps. (and if u wanted to choose hifonics atleast choose brutus series.)