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But you basically described really any decent sub company person with higher powered subs. Fi for one. I would consider the Zs if I was into hardcore SPL but that's about it. Nothing about the rest of their lineup makes me want to pay the price without going to another company. I started this as a find out type of thread. With the 3515's price tag, I can get an N2 BTL. It spawned from another thread that no one could tell me why they would recommend the dd3515 over the AQ HDC3 or FI BL. I started a thread just like this on 5 other sites. But i was calling out the SSA ZCON. with an estimated 500$ price tag. Why would someone buy a ZCON for 500 when they can get a better n2? this is a business and people dont understand that. no body cares about you, or your setup. they care about your wallet. SSA, DD, and AA for example. all high end retailers, that are in for the kill on some cash money. DD does the best to be honest. my friend brian who is a AA dealer, makes decent margin, but DD is the best money maker. also whoever said a 3500 over an HDC is horiibly mistaken, my old HDC motor is almost as big as my 9500 heres an insider tip the SSA ZCON basically uses the old crossfire motor that Fi oemd. i could buy that sub for 300$ back in the day, now they have brought back the same motor, made it a little better and JACKED UP THE PRICE. why... TO MAKE MONEY!!!! theese subs look famaliar to your HDC, 3500, and ZCON? this is the AB VFL, which basically uses the 3500 motor for half the price http://www.kochaudio.de/shop/index.php?cPath=196_930_937&osCsid=9f18c59201d4eecd74aef550408c140b AB XFL look like the HDC? carbon cone, dd basket, direct connects, JUST A DIFFERENT DUSTCAP!!! http://www.americanbassusa.com/front/showcontent.aspx?fileid=213 Crossfire AHHHH, my favorite company. i am trying out for the team this year. here is the original ZCON, what you guys are about to pay 500$ for http://www.crossfirecaraudio.com/htdoc/cf_m01_product_05_xs.asp business is business go fuck yourselves Wow hostile much? Yes this is a business, and making money is the end goal. Congrats glad you figured that out all by yourself. Now let me ask you this, have you used PERSONALLY each sub you bothered to mention in your post? And I'm really proud that you equate SSA and Crossfire. Its a great comparison, especially when its made 'a little better'. That being said what was 'back in the day' when you cold get the XS from Crossfire for 300 bones? Was it within the past year? Two years? Five years? Time changes price guy. Quite alot. Just look at gas and vehicles. J alright here we go hostile much? Yes this is a business, and making money is the end goal. Congrats glad you figured that out all by yourself Didnt see you come up with any of this before me? let me ask you this, have you used PERSONALLY each sub you bothered to mention in your post? i currently own an HDC, and i have already disected my friends VFL, not the XFL... heres my youtube, and you can find the others on his youtubehttp://www.youtube.com/user/illredsea?feature=mhum I'm really proud that you equate SSA and Crossfire. Its a great comparison, especially when its made 'a little better'. That being said what was 'back in the day' when you cold get the XS from Crossfire for 300 bones? Was it within the past year? Two years? Five years? Time changes price guy. Quite alot. Just look at gas and vehicles. Back in the day was winter of 2010, when they still carried the XS v.1, now they have the Fi made XS v.2 which basically uses the mayhem motor with a 4" coil. Ofcourse time changes price, but 1 year and 200$ dollars? so that means the inflation rate would be close to 200%? yeah not happening... i dont want to argue with you, i personally like you and what you have to say. so ill leave it at that. i have tried several subs and a few of which we are talking about here. You are also missing the cost difference in all of the pieces used as well. 1) It is not a mayhem motor with a 4 inch coil, the ID on the magnets used on the mayehm are 25mm tighter than the ones used with a 4" coil. 2) There is more steel there with a 4 inch pole. 3) Top plate is definitely different and the motor is chrome finished as well. 4) 4 inch coil costs almost double what a 3 inch coil does, as does the basket, and does the suspension. The price difference reflects cost difference...and its their business, not mine. I just want to correct your statements as they are incorrect. To the guy that was arguing that brand X has the strongest gauss motors in the world: Food for thought: I can take a top plate and shrink it down to 1/4" tall on a 190mm diameter motor...and make it have say an arbitrary 10,000 guass...that's great, but how tall is your gap height? (The answer is 1/4 inch) So, when your coil is in motion, it is only in that high concentration of gauss for 1/4"..if the coil is 2.8" this means that the wire is away from the B portion of (B x L) for over 70% of the time...which causes tons of distortion issues and HUGE swings in regards to your inductance curve..amongst other things. You then have things like we developed in supergauss, which has a common main gap that has say an arbitrary 8000 gauss through out the entire 2.4" tall gap height, instead of the 1/4" that we had before. So when you slap a split coil or a main coil in there that is 1.4 or 2.8" long this means that the wire is in a high concentration of flux density..through out the entire range of movement. You have less distortion, less flux modulation, and less inductance shift..because the wire does not move out of the area of high concentration. The point of a permanent magnet structure is to have steel where the wire of the coil is, if you cross drill and get rid of steel where it should be (pole piece etc.)..you lose motor strength. Meaning you have to change from a 220mm motor to a 280mm motor..to get the same parameters...because you took the steel away from where it needs to be. I can bench race all day long. There isn't anybody else in the industry that can say that all of our steel is dug out of the ground here, forged here, machined in house here exactly to your order for the price point that we do it at.

But you basically described really any decent sub company person with higher powered subs. Fi for one. I would consider the Zs if I was into hardcore SPL but that's about it. Nothing about the rest of their lineup makes me want to pay the price without going to another company. I started this as a find out type of thread. With the 3515's price tag, I can get an N2 BTL. It spawned from another thread that no one could tell me why they would recommend the dd3515 over the AQ HDC3 or FI BL. I started a thread just like this on 5 other sites. But i was calling out the SSA ZCON. with an estimated 500$ price tag. Why would someone buy a ZCON for 500 when they can get a better n2? this is a business and people dont understand that. no body cares about you, or your setup. they care about your wallet. SSA, DD, and AA for example. all high end retailers, that are in for the kill on some cash money. DD does the best to be honest. my friend brian who is a AA dealer, makes decent margin, but DD is the best money maker. also whoever said a 3500 over an HDC is horiibly mistaken, my old HDC motor is almost as big as my 9500 heres an insider tip the SSA ZCON basically uses the old crossfire motor that Fi oemd. i could buy that sub for 300$ back in the day, now they have brought back the same motor, made it a little better and JACKED UP THE PRICE. why... TO MAKE MONEY!!!! theese subs look famaliar to your HDC, 3500, and ZCON? this is the AB VFL, which basically uses the 3500 motor for half the price http://www.kochaudio.de/shop/index.php?cPath=196_930_937&osCsid=9f18c59201d4eecd74aef550408c140b AB XFL look like the HDC? carbon cone, dd basket, direct connects, JUST A DIFFERENT DUSTCAP!!! http://www.americanbassusa.com/front/showcontent.aspx?fileid=213 Crossfire AHHHH, my favorite company. i am trying out for the team this year. here is the original ZCON, what you guys are about to pay 500$ for http://www.crossfirecaraudio.com/htdoc/cf_m01_product_05_xs.asp business is business go fuck yourselves Couldn't be more wrong about the zcon/crossfire sub

Loud music+SSA ....

Rob, if your suppliers can't keep you stocked with parts, the customer is still waiting on you, not your supplier. You should notify customers of this on your website. Pure and simple. We have seen several instances now where customers are being told one thing time after time, and then one day it's the exact opposite. Now, we don't know all the facts or instances, but there is a trend happening here. For some reason it always take yourself to straighten everything out. Apparently there is a lack of or mis-communication with your associates. You guys seem to have a very good product, I just hope the CS can catch up and does not ruin your reputation.

it would make power and you would have bass. nothing more, nothing less

Chris, Fi made the Crossfire XS V.1, and XS-SPL V.1. You have a habit of only looking at the outside of a motor and saying it looks like another woofer that may look similar, but be COMPLETELY different. Also, keep it civil in here fellas.

my bad, thanks for the PROPER correction old coil new coil

No pics to see on that other forum!

But you basically described really any decent sub company person with higher powered subs. Fi for one. I would consider the Zs if I was into hardcore SPL but that's about it. Nothing about the rest of their lineup makes me want to pay the price without going to another company. I started this as a find out type of thread. With the 3515's price tag, I can get an N2 BTL. It spawned from another thread that no one could tell me why they would recommend the dd3515 over the AQ HDC3 or FI BL. I started a thread just like this on 5 other sites. But i was calling out the SSA ZCON. with an estimated 500$ price tag. Why would someone buy a ZCON for 500 when they can get a better n2? this is a business and people dont understand that. no body cares about you, or your setup. they care about your wallet. SSA, DD, and AA for example. all high end retailers, that are in for the kill on some cash money. DD does the best to be honest. my friend brian who is a AA dealer, makes decent margin, but DD is the best money maker. also whoever said a 3500 over an HDC is horiibly mistaken, my old HDC motor is almost as big as my 9500 heres an insider tip the SSA ZCON basically uses the old crossfire motor that Fi oemd. i could buy that sub for 300$ back in the day, now they have brought back the same motor, made it a little better and JACKED UP THE PRICE. why... TO MAKE MONEY!!!! theese subs look famaliar to your HDC, 3500, and ZCON? this is the AB VFL, which basically uses the 3500 motor for half the price http://www.kochaudio.de/shop/index.php?cPath=196_930_937&osCsid=9f18c59201d4eecd74aef550408c140b AB XFL look like the HDC? carbon cone, dd basket, direct connects, JUST A DIFFERENT DUSTCAP!!! http://www.americanbassusa.com/front/showcontent.aspx?fileid=213 Crossfire AHHHH, my favorite company. i am trying out for the team this year. here is the original ZCON, what you guys are about to pay 500$ for http://www.crossfirecaraudio.com/htdoc/cf_m01_product_05_xs.asp business is business go fuck yourselves Wow hostile much? Yes this is a business, and making money is the end goal. Congrats glad you figured that out all by yourself. Now let me ask you this, have you used PERSONALLY each sub you bothered to mention in your post? And I'm really proud that you equate SSA and Crossfire. Its a great comparison, especially when its made 'a little better'. That being said what was 'back in the day' when you cold get the XS from Crossfire for 300 bones? Was it within the past year? Two years? Five years? Time changes price guy. Quite alot. Just look at gas and vehicles. J

what about the fact that they use all american parts like your beloved Fi, what about the fact that they have the second largest magntizer in the U.S., what about the fact that they have incorporated cooling and coil inventions that every other company disects only to steal ideas from.to answer, no the 3500 is not worth the price. your dealer is shitting on you. my dealer sells those for 295. the 9500 or z is what you want. What makes having the 2nd largest magnetizer in the US have to do with making the lines from 9500 and below any more special than another sub? What cooling is different on those lines and coil inventions? The price was posted on CA.com by a dealer and no one said it was too much. at least something other than "so much wrong" First being, DD woofers play the same and sound the same as ANY other woofer. It's ALL box dependent. DD's advantage to most is their motor force, and other motor innovations. I never said they didn't sound the same or anything. I am saying they aren't special. What is special about their motors besides the three Zs.

Here's some more. Who likes 'em big? Another shot of the biggest truck at the show ( that guy is about 5' 10" for reference) This thing seems to go on forever when it's driving by More of the S10 paint underneath the front end of the green/black Dodge "Headhunter" This and every other side x side Kicker owned/had zipping around had a nice system with 2 L7 10s each full side shot of the S10 I keep showing bits of Another view of the leaf sprung Triumph and another shot of the Triumph The leaves I don't have any exterior shots of this one, it is under construction. I did however get a demo, it was pretty loud, 2 DC Level5 15s on 2 Kicker 2500s Old, dirty, rusty Scout II. I liked it. It was also leaking all over the parking lot, I didn't like that I didn't see the tailgate on this one until he was leaving the show, it said "DELICIOUS" Where do Kickers go when they die? This thing looked pretty cool, I didn't get to hear one though, don't know if it sounds decent or not. Well, that's all for Kicker Bash 2011, cold/overcast weather luckily didn't stop people from coming, there was a good turn out and a great time was had by all. Hope to see you guys there next year.

More pics for yous guys I got a picture of this off the trailer yesterday but it didn't come out very well, so I had to make due with this one. There was also an S10 on the trailer with this that had one of the coolest paint jobs I've ever seen, loads and loads of detail, someone worked their ass of painting the truck 2 SoloX 18s in a Magnum some paint from above mentioned S10, have more of this truck, they'll show up, for some reason my pics are all jumbled and there's way too many to flip back and forth trying to keep them in order Subs and amps from above pictured 'vette L7 10s Beast! Major Fackin' Beast! More of the S10 paint This Chevelle sounded great (engine/exhaust, did not hear stereo) Front suspension of Green/Black Dodge pictured previously (headhunter)

Ok, I'm back, here's the rest of the inside pics, then we'll move outdoors. Top down view of the Scion They have a sweet little Metropolitan in the lobby too, here's a few shots of that Kicker's Harley (my lil bro is in the background) This bike is niiice, got a sweet stereo installed too (nothing much to look at though so I didn't take any pics of the stereo Here's a shot of a sweet ass Makita tool box in the lobby, not really sure why, Makita/Kicker must have some sort of partnership though For those who haven't seen the ass of a SoloX, pretty large hiney 19 L7 15s hanging on the wall. The main entrance is to the left where the carpet is, so this is the 1st thing you see as you walk in the front door. Well, that's all for inside, I'll post up more vehicle pics in just a minute

Made it back, took about 75 more today and still had some left that I didn't post from yesterday, I'll post a few at a time, unless you guys just want me to load this bish up with a bunch of 'em. We actually went inside Kicker HQ today and checked out some of the stuff like the Wall of Woofers and such. Here are some more, we'll start inside and move back outside. We'll start this bunch off with a picture of the Wall of Woofers, 16 L7 15s and 8 component sets, no clue on power, the amps in the pics are not wired. I played with the controller and cranked it up then started it, some lady nearly shit herself, she was so pissed off and I thought I was in trouble as I didn't know if non-Kicker personnel were allowed to touch the remote, turns out she was just a spectator though and couldn't kick me out anyway. it was pretty impressive considering how big the room was and I believe the enclosure is sealed, also without some sort of override code or something, it only goes up to 60% power. next few are just of some of their products they showcase in the lobby Warhorse, the subs on the wall behind it are 15s btw Snow Cat equipped with lots of Kicker speaks, NOS and a Tshirt cannon mounted on top Kicker's Scion 6 SoloClassic 15s, I was wondering why it had racing buckets until I saw the monster turbo equipped engine. I also wondered why the alt to battery + cable was factory well chit, I gotta go do something real quick, will be back and post more in a few

To avoid anyone being insulted, I'll just say what I know about them. Fairly strong motors, short coils, TONS of laminated spiders (I dissected a 3500, and it had six laminated spiders, which were extremely brittle, that's just a drawback of that type of spider, they dryrot) direct leads, and ultralight cones, that's about all there is, the technology behind them is very old for a subwoofer, nothing special.

A DC 3500 is cheaper than a Sundown 2500 ! Got it ?! I don't know how are the build quality and the parts used in it, but it's a new option for me. MAP vs MAP it isn't. Dealer vs Dealer it isn't. So obviously you got quoted between dealer and MAP. But I wouldn't be surprised if the Sundown 2500d was close in output. That means he has no idea.

But you basically described really any decent sub company person with higher powered subs. Fi for one. I would consider the Zs if I was into hardcore SPL but that's about it. Nothing about the rest of their lineup makes me want to pay the price without going to another company. I started this as a find out type of thread. With the 3515's price tag, I can get an N2 BTL. It spawned from another thread that no one could tell me why they would recommend the dd3515 over the AQ HDC3 or FI BL. I started a thread just like this on 5 other sites. But i was calling out the SSA ZCON. with an estimated 500$ price tag. Why would someone buy a ZCON for 500 when they can get a better n2? this is a business and people dont understand that. no body cares about you, or your setup. they care about your wallet. SSA, DD, and AA for example. all high end retailers, that are in for the kill on some cash money. DD does the best to be honest. my friend brian who is a AA dealer, makes decent margin, but DD is the best money maker. also whoever said a 3500 over an HDC is horiibly mistaken, my old HDC motor is almost as big as my 9500 heres an insider tip the SSA ZCON basically uses the old crossfire motor that Fi oemd. i could buy that sub for 300$ back in the day, now they have brought back the same motor, made it a little better and JACKED UP THE PRICE. why... TO MAKE MONEY!!!! theese subs look famaliar to your HDC, 3500, and ZCON? this is the AB VFL, which basically uses the 3500 motor for half the price http://www.kochaudio.de/shop/index.php?cPath=196_930_937&osCsid=9f18c59201d4eecd74aef550408c140b AB XFL look like the HDC? carbon cone, dd basket, direct connects, JUST A DIFFERENT DUSTCAP!!! http://www.americanbassusa.com/front/showcontent.aspx?fileid=213 Crossfire AHHHH, my favorite company. i am trying out for the team this year. here is the original ZCON, what you guys are about to pay 500$ for http://www.crossfirecaraudio.com/htdoc/cf_m01_product_05_xs.asp business is business go fuck yourselves Wow hostile much? Yes this is a business, and making money is the end goal. Congrats glad you figured that out all by yourself. Now let me ask you this, have you used PERSONALLY each sub you bothered to mention in your post? And I'm really proud that you equate SSA and Crossfire. Its a great comparison, especially when its made 'a little better'. That being said what was 'back in the day' when you cold get the XS from Crossfire for 300 bones? Was it within the past year? Two years? Five years? Time changes price guy. Quite alot. Just look at gas and vehicles. J alright here we go hostile much? Yes this is a business, and making money is the end goal. Congrats glad you figured that out all by yourself Didnt see you come up with any of this before me? let me ask you this, have you used PERSONALLY each sub you bothered to mention in your post? i currently own an HDC, and i have already disected my friends VFL, not the XFL... heres my youtube, and you can find the others on his youtubehttp://www.youtube.com/user/illredsea?feature=mhum I'm really proud that you equate SSA and Crossfire. Its a great comparison, especially when its made 'a little better'. That being said what was 'back in the day' when you cold get the XS from Crossfire for 300 bones? Was it within the past year? Two years? Five years? Time changes price guy. Quite alot. Just look at gas and vehicles. Back in the day was winter of 2010, when they still carried the XS v.1, now they have the Fi made XS v.2 which basically uses the mayhem motor with a 4" coil. Ofcourse time changes price, but 1 year and 200$ dollars? so that means the inflation rate would be close to 200%? yeah not happening... i dont want to argue with you, i personally like you and what you have to say. so ill leave it at that. i have tried several subs and a few of which we are talking about here.

what the fuck are you talking about you can see the pics in that link? UMAD? Butt hurt? Sand in your vag? You spout nothing but and nobody here cares what you say DIPSHIT! Quit acting like a keyboard commando, obviously you have small dick disease and feel the need to act like a

what about the fact that they use all american parts like your beloved Fi, what about the fact that they have the second largest magntizer in the U.S., what about the fact that they have incorporated cooling and coil inventions that every other company disects only to steal ideas from. to answer, no the 3500 is not worth the price. your dealer is shitting on you. my dealer sells those for 295. the 9500 or z is what you want. American parts...cool. Big ass magnetizer...I don't give a damn about. Super neat cooling designs...cool. So all this means their stuff should be more expensive right? Or that the dealer gets to charge whatever right? no not really, DD is a business, and most companies will make a nice 60% margin on your dumb asses, i would much rather buy other subs if i didnt buy my dds at cost. and the next thing.. the motor force like said before is almost unmatched, DDs have thrown some of the highest gauss numbers PERIOD. i agree for the price dealers sell them for i would NEVER BUY THEM. but in the end DD has the most subwoofer world records period

Sounds like DC Power Let's see a build log!

A DC 3500 is cheaper than a Sundown 2500 ! Got it ?! I don't know how are the build quality and the parts used in it, but it's a new option for me. MAP vs MAP it isn't. Dealer vs Dealer it isn't. So obviously you got quoted between dealer and MAP. But I wouldn't be surprised if the Sundown 2500d was close in output. That means he has no idea. x2, Ford302redneck have you ever tested one or seen a test on either of the DC Amps. If not dont speculate we dont pass info around like that here, only facts. Thanks Ive heard good things about the DC amps, come from the build house that Cactus Sounds amps and where the Sundown SAZ-4500D comes from. Prices are around the same as the Crescendo amps that will be coming out in the next few weeks. I didn't say it would. I just said I wouldn't be surprised. That's neither a fact or misleading anybody. Its not like I said, I bet the Sundown 2500d is stronger and better. So chill out. I'm not saying nothing bad about DC amps or the buildhouse. So where did you get that? And yes I know people who have tested a good amount of boards from that buildhouse. The DC 3.5k was one of them but no need to get into that.

Problem with the DC is they haven't got stock up yet. They pretty much sell them all before they arrive. Plus the DC people are on SMD. But out of the amps listed, there won't be a big power difference between any of them in my opinion...

Best of luck to ya bro ... Your going to need it ...

I have a 25' monoprice RCA and it is hella stiff but it is really nice quality stuff.

what the fuck are you talking about you can see the pics in that link?

But you basically described really any decent sub company person with higher powered subs. Fi for one. I would consider the Zs if I was into hardcore SPL but that's about it. Nothing about the rest of their lineup makes me want to pay the price without going to another company. I started this as a find out type of thread. With the 3515's price tag, I can get an N2 BTL. It spawned from another thread that no one could tell me why they would recommend the dd3515 over the AQ HDC3 or FI BL. I started a thread just like this on 5 other sites. But i was calling out the SSA ZCON. with an estimated 500$ price tag. Why would someone buy a ZCON for 500 when they can get a better n2? this is a business and people dont understand that. no body cares about you, or your setup. they care about your wallet. SSA, DD, and AA for example. all high end retailers, that are in for the kill on some cash money. DD does the best to be honest. my friend brian who is a AA dealer, makes decent margin, but DD is the best money maker. also whoever said a 3500 over an HDC is horiibly mistaken, my old HDC motor is almost as big as my 9500 heres an insider tip the SSA ZCON basically uses the old crossfire motor that Fi oemd. i could buy that sub for 300$ back in the day, now they have brought back the same motor, made it a little better and JACKED UP THE PRICE. why... TO MAKE MONEY!!!! theese subs look famaliar to your HDC, 3500, and ZCON? this is the AB VFL, which basically uses the 3500 motor for half the price http://www.kochaudio.de/shop/index.php?cPath=196_930_937&osCsid=9f18c59201d4eecd74aef550408c140b AB XFL look like the HDC? carbon cone, dd basket, direct connects, JUST A DIFFERENT DUSTCAP!!! http://www.americanbassusa.com/front/showcontent.aspx?fileid=213 Crossfire AHHHH, my favorite company. i am trying out for the team this year. here is the original ZCON, what you guys are about to pay 500$ for http://www.crossfirecaraudio.com/htdoc/cf_m01_product_05_xs.asp business is business go fuck yourselves

what the fuck are you talking about you can see the pics in that link? UMAD? Butt hurt? Sand in your vag? You spout nothing but :bull:and nobody here cares what you say DIPSHIT! Quit acting like a keyboard commando, obviously you have small dick disease and feel the need to act like a your not even making sense man lol id beat you up in a hurry