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Pulling the battery doesn't mean that all the codes will clear. What is the truck? Both were replaced. 2006 F-250 Turbo Diesel King Ranch Edition. I didn't have a check engine light on until about 450 miles into it, and it was eating gas like crazy. Already been to and around Tucson once before this trip. First time on it didn't budge off the Full line until I got off the highway. Same conditions of driving again, as I exited the high way it was at 3/4 tank. Its got a 29 gallon tank and the Check Engine light came on. I just found it odd that Auto Zone found 9 codes and the stealership found 2. Just doesn;t make any damn sense. The claimed the light went out when they cleared the codes, they test drove it (couldn't say how far, or up to what speeds) and it didn't come back on. Just doesn't sit well with me on a truck thats costing me a bit of cash, and that's just over 146K on a diesel. J 1. Dealerships exist solely to steal your money. Find a competent independent diesel mechanic ASAP. 2. The IH 6.0L turbo diesel was the worst diesel engine in a Ford ever. Do some research and you'll find all the problems with them. 3. Don't ever go to AutoZone to get codes checked. If you have a smartphone, you can buy a code reader and do it yourself, or refer back to number 1. 4. Automotive computers like regular computers have two types of memory, or file locations if you will. They have a temporary file and a memory file. Everything is stored in the memory until a hard reset by computer or disconnecting power for a prolonged period of time, which can be several minutes to several hours.

I told you awhile ago Ponte fabric is the way to go when fiberglassing, cant wait to see the outcome when done. Ported door enclosures FTW!!!!!

One positive point that comes from all the problems is that not just you, but everyone who's reading this is learning as well. Thanks for sharing the mishaps as well as the winning moments!

Good Luck!!!! Make it happen!!!

for learning on the first try, and kickin' ass on the second!

Waiting on TRP To get his butt less busy so i can get my 2500! this is what i have so far... My stang got some donk ;D Hmm...

He doesn't need a Q with that amp..it'd be fine with an X. It's what 120 bucks? Machined and built in the states in house..and isn't imported. Call me a nut job for paying more for something that's Chinese but eh whatever lol

UPDATE: picked up a cheap MTX 400w monoblock for my AA carbon fiber mids.

Bam! Used some hardware again to run it First deka in, ran out of 2/0 for the second. Used the terminals from homedepot! That's all for now folks! Got 7.1 cubes and I'm thinking 6 Fi x's or 6 dcons :3 on a saz-2500 Should be sick

FINALLY got free time! Less than 5 bucks a pair from home depot, they're awesome, screw on, copper, and support up to 4/0 :3 What could this be? Test fit, yes that is home electrical fitings! :3 Hmm.. I love my Stang :3 making life easy! 2/0! Easy peasy Cut a weebit to facilitate better clearance Fuse placement, looks good for now! Ran under. Close up Poking through! Lolwut? Stock alt for the win! Hot too!

Goals? Budget?

Use the stuff on a daily basis. As for the bold comment, perhaps you now realize why subjective comments aren't very helpful? Had to quote you... As my reading comprehension isn't very good as was evidenced when you had to translate for me, what does the sentence fragment highlighted above mean? Does it mean that you use it every day OR, that I am supposed to in order to be able to listen to music and enjoy it OR both? Remember, I am merely a consumer and would prefer to not have to drag many thousands of $$$ in computer equipment and software to a store to be able to choose my speakers. I only have the equipment I was born with (my ears) to be able to determine which products I want to purchase. I can't speak for anyone but myself on that, but I would venture a GUESS that MOST other people don't want to either. But I'm sure I'm way off base since I don't have an objective measurement for that either. The only objective measurement I have is in the last 30 years I have NEVER seen anyone drag a computer into the listening area, set it up, and then audition the different drivers and make a choice on what product they are going to spend their hard earned money based on what the computer told them sounded the best. They listened, and purchased what sounded best to THEM. Were they ALL WRONG??? I'm not saying that subjective is better than objective. I'm not saying that I or anyone else can hear better than a machine. I am merely saying that at some point, this is all about LISTENING TO MUSIC that makes us happy. At what point does this move away from that and become something else? Everyone on the planet is not a scientist or engineer, we are people. Some of us want to actually LISTEN to music. Isn't that what this is all about?

I would love to be able to tell how the design process was done exactly, unfortunately, I was not a part of that process. All I know is that speakers were built, listened to, changed, listened to, over and over again until he got the sound he wanted. After he got that done, he worked on the crossover changing components over and over again until he got what he wanted. That was his design process to the best of my knowledge. As far as measurements go, I have NO IDEA what they are, nor do I have access to them, so I can't provide them. You asked me how he designed for dynamics, realism, and the live experience, he LISTENED to them and changed spiders, cones, surrounds, voice coils, and whatever other parts until he got the SOUND he wanted. Maybe specs were his starting point, maybe they weren't, I DON'T KNOW, I didn't design them. I am merely trying to answer the questions posed to the best of my ability. Hopefully that will go a short way to getting the answers you want, as unfortunately I am unable to speak any more scientifically than that.

As one of the "Blues guys" I've been ridiculed, insulted, told I didn't know how poor my hearing was, told my "magic speakers" couldn't do what they do, the list goes on and on, by people who have not heard the new line of drivers. That's what the "Blues guys" are up in arms about. Basically, it seems to me, that this has turned into a case of "mine's bigger than yours" and it's not productive. So... I agree that certain specs can tell how a driver will work say in a free-air configuration (I believe it's a high qts driver plus I'm sure some other figures come into play). Impious, I recognize that you and M5 are very knowledgeable and therefore, I value your input. For those of us who do not have the technical background, please explain what specs demonstrate dynamics, realism, and that "I was there live" feeling one gets when listening to a musical passage, and I will do my dead level best to find out what those numbers are and report them here. As far as the application these drivers were designed for, they were designed to simply reproduce music as accurately as possible, AND as simply as possible. If you have a car and you want an easy to do setup, put the 6's in a door, the tweeter where it sounds best, hook up a good solid amp of 100-150 watts, and let it play. There's no need for 24 speakers, 24 amp channels, a computer to time align everything, and a degree in engineering to put it all together. These vehicles we built may or may not be the best sounding things on the planet, but I have yet to have anyone listen to my own vehicle that wasn't amazed at what they heard. Again, that is only other's opinions and don't count for a darn thing here. I have made over half a dozen trips to Kansas City over the past year in an effort to let Julian hear the truck, but he never showed up. I would love to demo it for him, but even he seems intent on agreeing with the ones who haven't heard them. I have tried to be helpful where I could, usually I get beat to the punch (post?) by people who are on here more often than me. I do not mislead anyone, nor do I try to say the products I use are the end-all-be-all of music reproduction. I like them and will continue to use them untill Ray, Steve and Jerry come up with something new. In an effort to "keep the peace," I propose insults on both sides cease and let's make this a thread we can all learn from. Help the "T/S challenged" people like me understand how the specs work, and how they can be used to understand speaker behavior. Sorry for the rant, I just felt this was going nowhere good and want to turn this thread into something we can learn from, and I'm not talking about an ultra-sized pissing contest.

For a little funny break:

You gotta step it up. Like Steve said, you are sooooo close to the big boys you should be able to taste it. It was just 2 points to 5th and a couple of more to 4th!!!! You had a big target on your back after last year with your low budget system that smoked some high $$$ systems. Not saying you gotta spend big $$$ to keep up with them. Rich's and my systems do not have the money in them that other systems in our class had, just a ton of time, effort, and attention to the details. So start making plans, bounce 'em off the Team and we'll work make it happen. Don't wait too long or you'll get lost in the shuffle of the new systems being planned and built. I'm already making plans for my changes based on what I saw and heard this year. John

You would'nt happen to have a link to that would ya ??? I'm there Bro !!! Haha, maybe: http://www.caraudio-forum.com/forum/forum/35-linear-power-blues-car-audio/ Was just mentioning it for people who were interested in LP specific stuff.

LP does have a dedicated forum too.

2005 Chevy 2500HD Crew Cab Headunit - Alpine IVA-W505 X-over, EQ - Alpine PXA-H701 (processing is OFF, very little eq used) Front end - Blues BL6.5C - 6 1/2 in very well prep'ed door factory location, tweeter off axis on A-pillar Front end amp - LP DPS500 Rear fill - Alpine SPX-17Pro woofer in very well prep'ed door factory location, turned down so low can't be heard except when sitting in rear seats. Rear fill amp - LP DPS200 Sub - Blues BL10 - Custom center console enclosure that replaces the factory jump seat, 1.1 cu ft, ported @ 27 Hz Sub amp - LP DPS200 - soon to be a LP DPS350 My truck and Rich's truck are the same in front of the B-pillar (doors, pillars, dash, etc.). And since I live about a mile from Ray, and Rich and I have been friends for 25+ years, my truck is used for testing set-ups and comparing changes. When it gets dialed in in my truck, the changes are made to Rich's. There are slight differences to the sound of our trucks, but they are so close it's.... The differences comes down to a Crew Cab vs a Regular cab and the sonic differences between the Kenwood Rich runs and the Alpine I have. Rich's install is nicer than mine, but he's going to shows, I'm the testbed. I'll do some cleanup before USACi Nats. John Originally the HV amps were to be had for the "low" power rating (2.2 = 25 watts, 3.2 = 50 watts, 4.1 = 75 watts), making them excellent cheater amps when wattage was used as a class delimiter. Pretty much a mute point in SQ contest these days since there are no "power" classes. In comparing the 2.2 HV and the DPS500, the 2.2 HV amps make a bit more power stereo (mono the HV wins big), but the DPS500 has a better sound (just a bit). But, in reality you couldn't go wrong with either amp. I've always had the DPS amps in my system. Can't wait for the new LP's Ray is working on to come out. John

Let's just say that Ray has been experimenting. And my truck gets used for A/B testing before Rich's gets the final result. Our trucks are pretty the same in front of the B-pillar (same dash, windshield, A-pillars, doors), with the exception of my Crew Cab and his regular cab. Unfortunely we are in the same class (Modified Q) at Nationals.

Here is a little treat to the LP fans: http://www.caraudio-forum.com/forum/forum/35-linear-power/

I didn't get to see or listen to the car that beat me, but Todd Crowder did say it was a good sounding car. I can't remember what team shirts they had on. So I've got to come up with a few more points. A new sub stage and few tweaks, but nothing radical like rebuilding. The big deal is that SQ judging is very different from SPL. There is no meter to spit out a number. Each judge is different, so nothing is concrete. The judge(s) at Scrapin' scored Rich's system completely different from others have a other shows he has gone to. But you can see that across all the shows he has done with different judges. The judge(s) should be very consistant, which IMO is what you should see. jimmy2345 - Actually, a lot of the top USACi systems also compete in ISACA. A fellow GN owner, John Sketoe (sp?) does both and wins/places at finals at each. As Rich said, not too many IASCA shows around us. I even looked for a show while I was on vacation over the 4th weekend, but none were to be found in the Cincy area. Sir-Lance - You really need to hear the 8's before thinking 10's as mid-bass. Overall, a good time was had by all. Congrats to all our team. Good show, some nice rides, some nice systems and taking home a few trophies, what else could you ask for? The exception would be the heat (heat index was around 110!!!) and attempting to rebuild the A/C clutch in TJ's truck in the O'Reilly's parking lot, then just replacing the A/C compressor totally. That made a long, hot day that much longer and hotter, but gave the judge a cool truck to listen to the next day.

As far as I know, no one on our team is using 10's as anything other than a sub, although I guess they could be used that way, I would have to ask Ray to be sure. Sir-Lance, a pair of 6's in each door of your truck would be nuts and would find any rattles you have in your doors! (like you haven't already with those giant subs you have!) Thanks for the kind words as well! Hopefully I can find a show out your way so you can hear them firsthand one day soon. 98GMC... Thanks for the kind words as well. Maybe there will be a show close to you as well that I can travel to so you can hear them and give your opinion to the rest of the forum. I try not to be biased, but it's hard to prove, especially when I can't give the detailed explanations that some of the other, more knowledgeable members here can. I prefer to let others listen and make their own decisions. Sir-Lance, TJ Lacharite will be running SIXTEEN of the 10's in his truck in a wall with just one 8" component set up front for mids/highs. We are hoping to have it finished before finals this year. Thanks for the well wishes everyone, and congrats to Randle for winning at Scrapin, along with all the other members of Linear Power/Blues!!

I not only remember them, I still use them. I am currently rebuilding the console in my truck to house one forward firing towards the dash as an experiment. I also have a truck box "trisobaric" that is fairly rare, along with drivers to make several triso's still in their original shipping boxes. Ray at linearpower.com is bringing these back. I heard the prototypes over Christmas and they are sweeeeeet. He has 6.5's running FULL RANGE, no crossover high or low and they definately get the job done. The new tweeters are also very nice. One of the smoothest tweets out there, if not the smoothest period. New woofers (8" and up) are supposed to have a butyl rubber surround, and a rubber gasket like most new woofers today instead of the old cork around the edge. Not sure of pricing, but I'm sure he can tell you what they will go for. If you've never heard these before, Randle from Mississippi went to USAC finals in Tulsa with a $5,000 system in a beater work truck and it took a $40-50,000 system to beat him for 3rd in SQ I believe by just a couple of points. Word I got was the judge told him if he had washed his truck, he would have finished one place higher. I know opinions are like @$$holes, and everyone has one, but they sound pretty darn good to me. If you're into SQ, they are definately worth a listen.

LOL....wow. Pretty salty. Wish their website had (a lot) more info on it. But those would have to be some pretty spectacular pieces of equipment to support those prices, considering they're priced up there with some of the best performing speakers on the planet.

I hope they gave you a discount

Subjective opinions about performance aren't all that useful. I'd be more interested in seeing some independent objective measurements.

Jason Ewing once scored the highest in his class in the sound quality portion of a fairly major competition with stock VW speakers. Does that mean OEM VW speakers are some of the best speakers on the market? Worth $900 a set? The proof is in the pudding, right? "Ears" are inferior to objective measurements. That is indisputable. Your ears are prejudiced and subjective. Your ears are inaccurate measurement devices. Likewise, attempting to make a comparison between speakers when listening to them in different environments is a completely useless endeavor. You aren't listening to or comparing the speakers; you are listening to the entire system including installation, tuning and environment and basing your decision off of your personal opinion of what sounds "good" among other issues. That is not a valid or valuable comparison. Last, the competition format is not a format designed to compare individual components in a car audio system. How one fares in a car audio competition with a particular set of speakers is not necessarily an indication of the superiority of that particular speaker brand or how that speaker brand compares to other speakers on the market.

First, get the sand out of your vagina. Second, all you've accomplished thus far is to demonstrate your ignorance and complete lack of understanding of the usefulness of objective measurements and the problems associated with subjective opinions. I'm sorry you don't understand this, but that's not my fault so there's no sense in getting pissy about it with me. How do you think most speakers on the market are designed? By one guy sitting around tossing together parts until he stumbles upon something that sounds subjectively "good" to himself? No, there is extensive computer simulations and direct objective measurements made before they are brought to market. But all those dumb objective measurements are useless, so why bother, right? The work of a couple guys you may have heard of, named Thiele and Small, form the basic set of parameters used to describe every loudspeaker produced and are used extensively to determine performance related to enclosure type and volume, among other things, without having to go through and build infinite alignments and testing each one individually. But objective measurements are useless, right? How lost we would be if it wasn't for objective measurements. And how lost you are because you don't understand this. And, actually, you are the one who just came here. So I suppose if you don't like it, you can go crawl back under your rock Show me where I stated an opinion of them. Find one sentence where I stated an opinion of their performance, other than saying they'd better perform well given their price tag. Beyond that, all I said is that I'd be far more interested in seeing some objective measurements rather than listening to he-said she-said subjective statements about how great they are as those opinions are of no actual value regardless of who they came from, and that the "proof" presented so far of how great they are isn't really any "proof" at all. Now, don't you feel stupid for getting all worked up and acting like an idiot over something I never said?

LOL....wow. Pretty salty. Wish their website had (a lot) more info on it. But those would have to be some pretty spectacular pieces of equipment to support those prices, considering they're priced up there with some of the best performing speakers on the planet. Well, now that time has gone by they have beat most all of the other high(er) dollar equipment, and took 8 awards and two world titles home from Finals, and all without a piece of time alignment nor processing to make them perform perfectly. All of these guys systems are running less than 5000 or 6000 dollar systems and beating systems that cost 6 to 12 times that much to build. I think that says plenty about the quality of speaker you are buying and that the price is not too high. Titles don't mean much, I'd much rather have full T/S parameters than saying they won the "Such and Such Award", or took home a few trophies.

Well put. Terrible mechanism for testing speakers IMO. A Klippel, Laser Vibrometer and a true measurement mic in an anechoic space are FAR, FAR better for testing. And anyone who argues differently is drinking marketing koolaid and/or completely clueless.

When taken correctly, measurements cannot and never lie. You should note that I didn't cite only t/s measurements but others as well. As a whole when together they are not just a reference point but a true measure of performance.

Never said that manufacturers have to release full measurements, but stated that subjective opinions have no value but true measurements do. Your whole post sounds like you are trying to disagree with Physics without directly stating that. Perhaps you could enlighten us on how measurements will show you something and then be wrong.

Certainly they aren't the end-all objective measurement that completely defines a loudspeaker, no one has said they are. But they do absolutely allow you to ascertain certain aspects of the performance of a loudspeaker, much more useful than simply determining enclosure size. Really, the purpose of T/S parameters isn't at all to allow you to design an enclosure, as you suggested. They provide an objective description of the low frequency response characteristics of the driver (as well as some high frequency information), which in turn allows us to accurately predict how the driver will respond in a given enclosure in terms of frequency response, phase response, transient response, etc (among other things). Sure, people can use them to design an enclosure. But that's because of how useful T/S parameters are. They allow us to predict this information. But the actual intent of T/S parameters is to objectively describe the low frequency behavior/response of the loudspeaker, which has the good fortune of allowing us to make accurate predictions. Which are then useful for other things, such as enclosure design (for one example) Certainly someone should design their system for their own enjoyment, whatever that may be. No one can argue against that point. But don't think it's not possible to criticize a loudspeaker without hearing one if sufficient objective data is available. As Sean has pointed out; a loudspeaker can't do anything that defies the laws of physics. The pertinent aspects of it's performance can be obtained from proper objective measurements. Why is it that this entire discussion is being taken as "stepping on toes"? No one in this thread has made one discouraging remark against the drivers performance, yet many of the Blues supporters seem to be getting defensive over it. The only comments I've made directly about the speakers are 1) the drivers are expensive (self-evident from their listed prices), and 2) none of the information provided tells us anything about their actual performance (self-evident from the [lack of] information provided). Who's toes is that stepping on?

Keep it civil gentlemen, I don't want to start serving bansandwiches.

I'm all for trying out and judging the sound but if parameters / measurements show the product can't work in my install, why bother spending money and time on it ? Because there Blues Car Audio Drivers, they are winning all the competitions just ask the people running them on this site. I would get some just to have some trophies in my room, fa sho

It is. This is simply a logical discussion with a few having their own personal input. It is nothing more than a discussion of of objectivity versus subjectivity. ....And people judging how a speaker sounds by the way it looks .....and people demanding parameters for a driver they have no interest in purchasing in the first place ......and people who arent rational.....meaning you could have a super woofer with parameters one could only dream of and these people would still have something bad to say. Now why would any company even humor you with parameters....none....why.....they are rational. Again you come back with subjective responses and an air of defensiveness. I gave you an out. You just know it will make them look worse. Besides no one demanded measurements, they just said to stop the subjective nonsense and either give up some details on why they are superior from a technical perspective or to prove it with measurements. So far no one from Blues has done either. And your "rational" response is to state they just sound good which is subjective. To me rational would have some bit of science behind it. As for no intention to buy, funny you should say that. Obviously NO ONE in their right mind would ever think of buying these with the way they are being marketed; however, if you were to put up some measurements or show why they are superior technologically then I would be interested in buying some. I have a new car being shipped to me right now; how do you know what I am going to put in it? Another out you have is to answer any of my questions from before which you seem to ignore. Obviously if these were truly exceptional drivers it would be easy, so lets hear it. Wow. Do you sit there any stare at your speakers, or even the parameters as the other so called audiophiles on this forum or do you properly install them and listen to them as they were intended? I personally like to listen to my speakers, and could care less what they look like. When was the last time you could hear a speaker by looking at it? When is there been ANYTIME that a speaker has been measured and performed differently than the measurements showed it would perform?? Go ahead and use your "golden ears" and listen away. What you hear and what you get can be very easily quantified by measurements, but you wouldn't like the results. Either way, stop pulling an Ultra. Either measure the damn driver, explain its technological advancements or just don't say anything as saying you use your ears just shows how bad your hearing is.

It is. This is simply a logical discussion with a few having their own personal input. It is nothing more than a discussion of of objectivity versus subjectivity. ....And people judging how a speaker sounds by the way it looks .....and people demanding parameters for a driver they have no interest in purchasing in the first place ......and people who arent rational.....meaning you could have a super woofer with parameters one could only dream of and these people would still have something bad to say. Now why would any company even humor you with parameters....none....why.....they are rational. Argue on my statements, don't beat it around the bush... Why in the world would I buy when I can't find any info other that "It sounds like a choir of a thousand angels" ? There are people who buy because of that. There are people who buy on looks. Do you want to change my beliefs and make me buy now based on hearsay ? Sorry, not going to work. Understand that you are coming in a group where people care about some pieces of information to back up claims (that has been quite clear from when Impious started to post). Ultra-subjective opinions have a hard time flying. I could however point you to a group where only subjective opinions count. Convince one and you have the whole group under control.

For someone so keen on using the term "rational", you seem to not understand it's definition. Which line of argument seems most rational to you? Increasing understanding of an object via methods that are reliable, repeatable, comparable and objective in nature.Increasing understanding of an object via reliance upon opinions and experiences which are not reliable, are not repeatable, can not be used to make comparisons, and are subjective in nature and hence will vary from person to person.Are you seriously trying to tell us that #2 is the more rational, logical means by which to operate? We would still be living in the dark ages if science hadn't developed a logical, rational method by which to discover facts about our world. Why on earth is a method that has allowed us to discover the secrets of the universe and taken us from the first electric grid to the Information Age in barely 100 years suddenly not sufficient to describe the operation of a loudspeaker? And why is it that anyone who isn't absolutely awestruck by the subjective opinions made about Blues speakers and who aren't willing to accept them hook, line and sinker are labeled a "hater" by everyone in the Blues camp? I bet if you go through this entire 10 page thread, you could count the number of comments negative towards Blues on one hand.....and those comments were not made by the main people contributing to this thread in favor of objective information and against subjective information. So now we're "haters" if we don't accept subjective opinions as God's written word and suggest that objective measurements are more useful? Simply stating that subjective opinions are exactly that, subjective, and as a result utterly meaningless is not saying that Blues speakers sound bad. I don't recall anyone who hasn't heard the speakers making one single comment about their sound. If there is a post in this thread, it would have to be a single post. For the most part the later 5 pages has been a discussion of the differing benefits of objective versus subjective information.....that is, until a Blues supporter hops in, takes our posts out of contexts, complains about us "haters" not having heard the speakers and therefore we can't say they sound bad, so we need to stop saying they sound bad.....even though no one had even attempted to comment on their sound.......then we go back in a circle with said supporter about the differing benefits of objective versus subjective information.....then another Blues supports hops in, takes our posts out of contexts, complains about us "haters" not having heard the speakers and therefore we can't say they sound bad, so we need to stop saying they sound bad.....even though no one had even attempted to comment on their sound.......then we go back in a circle with said supporter about the differing benefits of objective versus subjective information.....Are we noticing a trend yet? If you want to identify what has been the most irrational part of this thread....it would undoubtedly and without question be the responses made by the Blues supporters. The amount of defensive and confrontational posts coming from that end of the conversation, along with the amount of comments being taken completely out-of-context, simply because we aren't impressed by subjective opinions is absolutely astonishing, and quite frankly, laughable. And really, the T/S parameter thing can be dropped. It was an off-hand comment made to briefly display the value of objective information as those are by far and away the most widely used objective information for loudspeakers. It really wasn't a central or even main point to the discussion......yet for some reason, the Blues guys keep circling back to it. The main point to the discussion is why subjective opinions aren't useful for telling anybody anything about the speakers performance. But if understanding the value of objective measurements and a lack of willingness to accept subjective opinions as facts makes me a hater, then fine....I'll gladly be a hater.

Seriously though.....I've asked several times, but have yet to get a direct response to this question by anybody in the Blues camp. I'm seriously interested in hearing the answer to why this is, as several different people have come in here who are quite obviously supporters of Blues who are up-in-arms that we are over here saying blasphemous things about Blues speakers, when we (the main posters in this thread; i.e. myself and M5) haven't commented about the sound of the speakers themselves at all, other than saying we aren't going to accept opinions about performance as facts.

Why not post it, or at least answer Brad's question?

I don't hate you, its the internet that wouldn't get me very far. I do despise subjective emotional responses though. You claim it is easy to get through Ray, since that is in your camp and your interest go for it.

And unfortunately, with far less actual information about Blues Atleast Ultra offered one of their drivers up for measurement, then tried to argue the results. The Blues guys aren't willing to do anything other than argue why we don't even need objective information.

Stop taking things emotionally and personally and read objectively it will really help this conversation No one has ever ridiculed or insulted any of you other than your silly approach of saying it sounds the best to me so therefore these are the greatest speakers since sliced bread. Instead please respond for ONCE without any subjective nonsense which in your whole post you again forgot to do Um, you can't analyze one spec but only the set. As for showing what they do "free-air" they will actually show what they will do in any environment as long as that environment is known. I've offered and asked now three times for someone to show where this isn't the case but no one in the subjective camp has anything to say about that. Considering this is the case, there is another SIMPLE question you could answer. Ask Ray how he designed specifically for "dynamics, realism, and that "I was there live" feeling one gets when listening to a musical passage" when he designed the drivers. This would be some scientific input we would all really love to hear. Perfect, please share how this design was developed and what was done to make this happen. That would be stellar. As for the second portion of the quote, no one on here would ever recommend 24 speakers and that bs which is rather obvious from tons of other threads on the forum. Stop, again NO ONE on here cares what you think about how your car sounds. This isn't a knock on your hearing, but the fact that the subjective nature of that response is nonsense. There are tons of us that could easily say the same about our vehicles but you don't see that happening now do you? The only ones in the pissing contest seem to be in your camp, we are not competing with that as we surely don't believe in it. There is really only one way to be helpful and you haven't. Answer Impious or my questions. If you don't know how or can't ask for clarification. Since you seem rather convinced these were designed to be musical and ... then share the design process of how that was done. The only reason you could be taking any of this as insulting is if you are reacting emotionally to the fact that your subjective opinion matters not. Silly thing to get insulted over. As for understanding specifications, we'd be glad to help but there seems to be a disconnect in your understanding completely. As a whole they will describe EXACTLY what a driver will do in ANY environment so you can imagine the complexity of your answer. As a primer, pick up a copy of Vance Dickason's book, Loudspeaker Design Cookbook and read it. Once you absorb that it will make answering your question VERY easy Again, there is only one way to make this thread something we can learn from and it is for your camp to share something objective. IE, not subjective, not emotional and not about what YOU have heard. Instead share Ray's design process, his testing process, how he has tweaked standard driver design to do what he has done. So far we have no details AT ALL on the driver other than what we can see from the pictures and pricing and on the surface the two do not make sense together. Let me give you one other bit of insight. Basically everyone who reads this thread is getting a really bad picture of Blues, and not at all from Impious or my responses but from yours. I am sure that without answering our very simple questions you guys are doing a really good job of destroying potential customers instead of helping yourselves. This is the internet, people don't buy on emotion that they aren't connected to and that is ALL that you guys are sharing. For the sake of this forum, your company, and rudimentary science please stop. I'd love to see you guys post something useful and challenge you to try as so far it has just been one heck of a mess. Please prove me wrong. And again, don't take this personally. I have nothing against any of you and actually at this point am just amused at the stubbornness, but I do look forward to a real response.

Why would you share a box with a subwoofer and a midrange???

What he meant:

I left out the I in the sentence. As in I use stuff like that everyday. Amusingly you are off just a wee bit on the pricing. That isn't thousands of dollars worth of equipment, but over $1M. And remember, that was for development. Exactly why I am interested in what Ray did.

You really don't get it do you. As that consumer did you listen to EVERY speaker before making a decision? Obviously I know the answer is no which means you have a very small sampling. Real measurements allow you to evaluate EVERY driver that you would like to for your application and know EXACTLY how it will perform in comparison to others. It is way faster to screen drivers up front and listen to just a few than the other way around which gets us to the point of listening to music faster. Really simple, not sure why you and your camp completely doesn't get it.

You don't even read my posts do you. If I think it sounds good that is fine FOR ME and no one else. I don't run around saying I like the way this sounds you should buy it as it is absurd. I never told you to measure anything and I don't measure speakers I buy either as the measurements I need are already published by every even halfway decent driver manufacturer. In fact, I have never bothered to measure a driver I have personally used ever. Measured plenty of drivers but most are used for completely other purposes. If you instead spent the time understanding RUDIMENTARY measurements you wouldn't have wasted so much money. Spend as much time reading about measurements as you have bitching in this thread and you'd understand enough to realize you don't need to listen to every driver known to man to help you narrow your decision logically. There is VERY easy to use software that will help you. Just download WinISD and play around, it is super simple. It will tell you more than you've learned in the rest of your audio life in about 10 hours. Again, equipment means nothing and ISN'T necessary. Hell Zaph gets buy with a teeny percentage of what is out there, but uses it correctly. And you haven't told people to use their own judgement but to listen to your subjective puking on what you think with NOTHING backing it up. It better come down to whether it sounds good to the consumer, but when the consumer is being a nonsensical idiot then screw him. Considering the ridiculous and obnoxious attempts to keep this subjective and trying around every corner instead of actually addressing ANY question asked in this thread, I have now drawn a conclusion. Obviously the Blues drivers are cheap junk and weren't engineered at all. I am sure everyone else reading this feels the same way. Please don't respond at all unless you go back and answer ANY of the questions that Impious or I have asked. I am sick of your circles. Will I keep responding? Yes, because at this point it is really amusing to see how much more idiotic they can become. Driver design, speaker building, and installation is a science. Please bring some we would ALL love to see it. When you do, I'll be the first to change my tune but until then go ahead and continue to make your whole clique look bad.

That's what Dr. Subwoofer would do. LOL. I think you should REALLY start with a 2 way. 3 way adds too many variables. As stated above it wouldn't be hard to GREATLY exceed the capabilities of the sets you are looking at, but it as you correctly stated it will take some time in the install and tuning. As for helping select drivers, it is really necessary to understand some more about your goals, installatiion locations, aiming, size restrictions and so on. Once we understand those restrictions it will be much easier to help.