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Some sick videos from KC2K13 V.1 Car show in Bluesprings MO

"Usually" higher rated CA or CCA will correlate with higher AH .... "USUALLY" .... so in theory looking at higher CA or CCA will also give you good AH rating as well.... maybe that was said in one of the posts but I be lazy right now and this is shorter to read

There are many types of batteries available, of course – which one is right for you? For audio installations, experience has shown that the best results will be obtained using deep-cycle marine batteries. These batteries can be obtained from almost any dealer for approximately $60. Lead-acid batteries are preferred over calcium-based (maintenance-free) batteries because of their superior internal characteristics. Maintenance-free batteries are usually designed to provide a large amount of current for a short period of time. This is great for starting your car, but not so great for running a high-powered system. Deep-cycle marine batteries, on the other hand, are designed to provide a moderate-to-large amount of current over a long period of time. The plates in each cell are thicker, and they are made for deep, cyclic use. This is important because you can severely drain this type of battery without damaging it, which is ideal for car audio installations. There are three ratings you should check out when selecting a battery. The first is the CCA (cold-cranking amps) rating. This indicates a batterys ability to provide a large amount of current for a short period of time at cold temperatures. (If youre looking for a battery that will be used just to start your car, this is the rating you would be most interested in.) The second rating, and the one that is most important in terms of your system, is the AH (amp/hour) rating. This rating simply states how much current the battery is capable of delivering for a period of time. The larger the rating, the better. Typical deep-cycle marine batteries have AH ratings of 85 to 105. The third rating you should look at is reserve time. Deep-cycle marine batteries really shine here. Reserve time represents the batterys ability to recover and produce electrical energy after a discharge cycle – without re-charging. The longer the reserve time, the better. Installing the extra battery or batteries in parallel will result in the most efficient use of its (their) power. When using this method of connection, your total AH rating is the sum of the AH ratings of all of your batteries. Note that batteries installed in this manner should be identical (the same make and model). If theyre not the same, their internal impedances will differ and, eventually, one battery will discharge the other. When wiring the electrical system, dont skimp on large-gauge wire. Welding cable is preferable because of its tough outer jacket, fine wire strands, and good flexibility. The bottom line is that you should never use less than No. 4 wire. Also, dont forget to install 150-amp circuit breakers at each end of the power cable running from the front to the rear of the car. The circuit breakers will protect the vehicle in case of a short somewhere along the length of the cable. Its important to take the time to plan out your electrical system. A properly designed and installed system will provide a good foundation for your auto sound components while maintaining reliability and safety. The audibly superior performance will be well worth the added time and expense.

i agree. AH is very important. its the amount of reserve of a deep cycle battery , cranking amps matters too.. because it is the burst output rating. from what i recall

Are you guys really concerned about that?

Besides your logos all over it, that cure sheet is a perfect knock-off of what Brian Schmitt has been handing out to his training customers for a decade. I would say that's where you originally got the info from but you would never catch him laying torn mat on onto anything. He ALWAYS uses a full sheet and ALWAYS wets out the mat before applying it to the work piece. And that roller is not for wet out it's for removing air. And that black pigment, it's for making bubbles easier to spot.

It doesn't matter if you have a 10k rms amp on them. Just set the gain to right before you hear the sub stress. You will be fine with that amp. Just because its rated for what it is doesn't mean it will put out that much power. Like I said make sure you use your senses to know when the subs are being pushed to hard (listen for distortion, smell coil). I would suggest a new box though. That way it's made exclusively for you dcons. If you need a box design I can definitely help you with that. Then if you or someone you know can build it.

Was messing around on the meter and did 140 at 26hz. 141 at 27hz. 143.1 at 29. Best was 145 at 30

Holy triple post ))

Why the hell would you tune it so low and how can you fit that large of an enclosure in the kick?

You and me both brother, I am really considering trying to cram an 18 in the trunk. Obviously doing it the right way, I think that it's doable with a lot of work.

Vids look insane with the Evil. Gawd I want two 15s so bad.

Neal I didn't need much of a reason to try out the Evil but you and Mr. Senchezz have made me want one so bad. I think that after I complete this next build it will be time to get Evil!

Great, another wife pissed at me. It's always Aarons fault, when in doubt blame him

I hear you man. I'm taking on my first real "custom" front stage and finding time seems to be the hardest part.

Mid and tweet in the dash and 8s in the kick pannels ... Nice! This should be a really cool build all around.

What are you planning on audio wise? Sorry if I missed it...

The origional guages ran off of the origional 6 volt system and will not run off of the 12 volt system, so they have to be rebuilt. That is my plan, but if it doesn't work, then I plan to go with the Dakotas ...Most people would want the dash left origional when it comes to audio, But I want this dash to look a little bit more modern with the audio system and air conditioner setup ... Cool man, just throwing my two cents out there. Tuned in either way!

Why not hide the head unit, and keep the original gauges (if possible)? Keep the dash unmolested.

Tons of options dash wise that don't require the huge markup of the Dakota stuff which IMO is underwhelming. You've got plenty of dash to build up your own layout of standard gauges.

a 3" coil has more potential for more power handling because it is wider and can dissipate heat considerably compared to a 2.5" application. Physics dictate this. the bigger the coil, the more space it takes to run optimally, normally. an Xcon is not even in the same ballpark as SA series; its sound quality features and design along with its high power handling make it a suspect for a high quality product.

Man if you need any help. You know where to find me. I know a chroming shop that can do objects up to 10x10in up in Memphis

I love the truck Randal. Wish I had a family member with a paint shop

Check any of the big Subie sites, many people sell off used but in good condition parts all the time.

Great, another wife pissed at me.

Alright I'm convinced...

And as for people in your back seat. Don't worry, I upgraded to a nice active front stage and ditched the rear speakers in my sedan and was giving some friends a demo and the people in the back seat couldn't even tell there were no rear speakers. They were blown away at how full and clear the sound was. Focus on a good front stage and ditch the rears if you want the best possible sound in your vehicle and save yourself the hassle of doing it again in a few months

My new ride, the 72 truck is gone tomorrow. Gonna do a nice little sound setup in this too. 60 Biscayne, 20in Ridler's, lowered, 350 and 3 speed in floor.

Thiele Small parameters describe the low frequency behavior of a loudspeaker. Cms is the compliance of the suspension of the loudspeaker. Compliance is the inverse of stiffness. So Cms tells you how compliant the suspension of the speaker is....or, by extension, how stiff the suspension is (a higher compliance means lower stiffness, lower compliance means higher stiffness). When a subwoofer "breaks in", the only physical parameter that changes is the compliance of the suspension (Cms). Cms increases (the suspension becomes more compliant) because the suspensions loosens up and becomes softer and less stiff. Since Cms changes, it changes most of the other relevant T/S parameters that predict how a loudspeaker behaves in the low frequency realm. Fs is the resonant frequency of the driver. This is your basic mass on a spring stuff. The mass of the moving parts (cone, coil and former, & suspension) and the "spring" is the suspension, and at some frequency these parts will naturally resonant just the same as any other mass on a spring. That's Fs. And since the compliance of the spring changes, the resonant frequency changes. Fs will go down because there's slightly less "spring" with the same amount of mass, so it resonates at a lower frequency. Q was short hand for Qms, Qes and Qts. Q stands for Quality factor. Basically if a system is resonating, Q describes the amount of "loss" in the system or the amount of damping the system is providing....it tells you how long that system will resonate for. A higher Q means there is less loss (and less damping) so the system will be more resonant and will take longer to stop oscillating. Back to our mass on a spring, Q factor will determine how long it takes for the system to stop oscillating. Qms describes the damping provided by the suspension (surround and spider). Qes describes the damping provided by the motor. And Qts is the combined damping of the Qms and Qes, or the total damping of the driver. Generally speaking the motor provides the most control over the driver at and above resonance, so Qts is always much close to Qes than it is to Qms. There is also Vas, which is more or less a different expression of the compliance of the loudspeaker. It's expressed in terms of air volume, liters or cubic feet. A larger Vas for a given cone diameter means a more compliant (less stiff) suspension. Vas has a lot to do with enclosure volume. Generally speaking, a larger Vas means a larger enclosure volume is needed for a given alignment. Fs, Qts and Vas are the main parameters the describe what the shape of the response curve of a speaker will look like in a given enclosure. Now, Cms is really the only physical parameter that changes when a speaker breaks in. But since Cms changes, Fs and Vas will both change (Fs goes down, Vas goes up). And since Fs changes, Qes and Qms will both change (they go down since Fs goes down) which therefore changes Qts (goes down as well since both Qes and Qms go down). Looking at the math helps understand that part of it. But, more importantly, because Cms is the only physical parameter that changes that means Fs, Vas and Qts will all change in proportion to each other leaving their relative ratios pretty much the same. Which means the shape of the response in a given enclosure remains pretty much the same. There are small changes to the response, but they are are well below the threshold of audibility...less than 1db. It might, *MIGHT* matter to a guy who does SPL where .1db can be the difference between 1st and 2nd place. But audibly....no difference.

Wood as tight as you can get it and then expanding foam in the tiny gap. . And make sure you use expanding foam in the body on both sides of the trunk

Sorry - no measurements yet I can tell you my Alpine Type- R and Type -S sounded very different (to me) after a week or so than when they were first put in - even when i took a used Type-S out and put a new one in, I could tell. when i first put them in, it seemed like it couldn't hit the low notes, after awhile, the lows definitely became more prominent (to me)* *Right before they blew lmfao Measurements are really the only thing that would support the claim that there was a significant audible change pre- and post break in. Subjective experience does not. As Q pointed out, you might have experienced a change, but the change was in your perception and not in the driver (at least not audibly). Understood. I just had to say it. I'm wondering what T/S parameters are. Also what are , Cms, Fs, and Q? http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/index.php/blog/item/ts-parameters-explained.html Explains it all.

The T/S of a subwoofer (or any driver) changes as the suspension loosens (i.e. becomes "broke in"). But since the relevant parameters (Cms, Fs, Q, etc) change proportionally, the response is changed slightly but typically by an inaudible amount. So the actual change in performance is virtually zero. It's not a myth that the suspension loosens, changing the T/S parameters. It is a myth that some arbitrary "break-in period" needs to be ascribed where the driver is used at an arbitrarily lower power level for an arbitrary period of time. It's also a myth this change is dramatic since, as I pointed out above, the change in response is often not audible. I've obviously not seen measurements of every driver on the market, but I've yet to see measurements of a driver that results in an audible change in response. If somebody has any, I'd be interested in seeing them.

I would take the addition of the word "professional" with a grain of salt and a lot of caution if I were you. I've met "professionals" in shops who were doing installation related NO NO's that I knew were no no's when I was still in High School (almost 16 years ago) and that wasn't but a year or two ago. There are a lot of common practices that are done by many people, even in shops, that are just plain wrong. Just as many of those folks who are doing that wouldn't know distortion from a panel rattle, active from passive processing, or how to properly spec an enclosure for a given subwoofer AND the application it's going to be used for. Just because they work in a shop don't assume they know their shit beyond any doubt. Ask them to explain exactly what clipping is and if it's not at least remotely close to what I described then they don't know what it is much less what to listen for to identify it. A proper box will always yield better results than a wrong one. If you want a good enclosure designed for that SA 12 then we can probably help with that, true enough. Who would be building it?

I'm wondering what you think clipping is? Clipping IS distortion (one of many forms) and is caused when the input signal attempts to drive the output signal above the voltage it has available. The gain is ONLY there to match the amplifier's input to the output voltage of the HU. When you turn the volume up and exceed the level the amp has been adjusted to, or simply have it adjusted too high it will clip the signal. For simplicity lets say the amplifier is like a transformer, but unlike a transformer the voltage can only go as high as the power supply voltage is. So say it's a 4x transformer (much like a reversed 480 to 120 control transformer), if you put 5v into it you'll get 20v out, pretty simple right. Now, let's say the the power supply limit is 20v and you put a 6v input signal into it, (6 x 4 = 24v) that 4v that it's trying to output gets clipped off at 20v because that is all that's available to it. While it's a much more technical and sophisticated difference than what I just explained that is essentially what you're running into with clipping. If the amplifier's power supply converts the 12v voltage in your vehicle to 70v, that's a 35v positive and 35 negative limit for the signal, which for a sine wave (what all sounds are) is just how it works and is why it's measured in AC voltage even when everything in your car is DC. When the gains are adjusted the idea is to match the output voltage from the HU at that volume level to get that 70v from the amp. Differences in the recording levels of the material you play, the point where you turn the volume to, etc. all play a part in whether or not you exceed that or not. If you turned your volume up to 30 to set the gain with a -6db tone, when you play music that has peaks that reach -3db in their recorded level those peaks are clipping the amp even with the volume set to the same 30 level. That is the way of it. I'm not sure how to explain it any simpler, but if you're constantly pushing the sub into distortion, barring any issues with the sub, enclosure or amp themselves then you simply need to identify the limiting factor(s) and upgrade them accordingly. You very well may be expecting more from the SA than it can possibly give.

Keep what you have. You won't achieve much difference in overall output with the same box, power and come area. BL has more motor force but I dont see it changing much. Plus the airspace needed for either Q or BL is more than the SSD. Im almost positive

start with a lower tuned box. why would you run the bc3500 below 1ohm if the sp4 is a 3000w rms sub?