cobra93

I really hope I'm not misleading you, it's just a thought. I'd do a search for "false triggers, alarms" and see what you can find. There's allot of wires and the instructions aren't user friendly on purpose, but I think clifford, viper , excaliber and others are all the same manufacture. Good Luck! If you don't know the installer I'd ask him to show me the diodes when you go back to him and see what he say. Check out "the12volt" for sure, allot of good info. on alarms over there and I've seen some good help given.

Try going to bulldog security and do a search for your vehicle. They may have a note as to what I'm referring to on the door/dome light trigger wires. They should have schematics and such for free.

I believe the trunk release is built in to the alarm wiring harness, one of them anyway. However, that's not at all what I was referring to.

I'm no expert by any means, I'd also look int "the 12volt" forum. I recently installed a 5002 on my ranger and one of the things I ran across is that you have to diode isolate the door trigger wires/dome light depending on which wire is used, maybe the trunk as well. It had something to do with the eec "throwing" everything to ground after a period of inactivity. I believe this will false trigger the alarm. I read that it usually happens ~two hours of inactivity, but who knows. I don't know for sure this is your problem, just a guess, but I'd ask the installer if he used diodes to isolate the doors/dome light depending on which wire he used and if he installed them in the correct direction. A diode blocks + in one direction and - in the other, it depends on what you need it to do. I hope you get this sorted out, soon. Good luck!

U should be a english teacher.(Smart ass)m don't read the thread if u dnt like it. Aint nobody forcing u to read it

Something isn't right here, well a few things actually. He said he had to have his sub "REINSTALLED". Shouldn't you be able to screw a sub into a box by yourself. Is that a prefab box, sealed? I've got 3- 88120 ti dvc subs and they have over 3 inches of excursion and I use most of it with 1,000 rms watts on 1 sub. Are the massive audio amps that bad?

More information or FLAME ON!!!!

You're kicking some serious ass there Sir-Lance !!!! Enclosure looks damn good. Keep up the great work, you'll be hammering before you know it.

Is it me or does it sound like the woofer is bottoming out? Is the ssf set high enough? Maybe it's just the mic, but that popping noise doesn't sound right.

There are allot of better box designers/builders on this site then I. I will state my experience with the sa-8's. The box I built to house 4 sa8' was too big in my opinion for my goals, 3.2 c.f. net. (.8 per sub) I like tight sound and somewhat flatter response and let cabin gain do the rest. The above box was tuned to 32 hz. with a 4-1/2" x 11-3/4" port. I seemed to get no output from them until ~ 45hz.- port tuning. This was very loud around tuning, but didn't sound right at all, way to peaky for me. I wound up pulling the box out after 3 or 4 days. I had a .75 c.f. box tuned to 32hz. as well, so I inverted the sa8's (2 of them) and found the response to be flatter. I now had some output at 60hz.. The output was on a gradual rise til tuning, not a spike/peak at tuning. This was much more to my liking, but with much less output across the pass band. The sa-8's were much more musical in a small box to me. You stated you wanted more SQ than SPL. I don't think I'd go larger then .4-.6 c.f. per woofer unless you've got some great mid bass already. I'd ask the box size question again with a particular freq. range and type of response curve you're looking to achieve, flatter or peaky, if I were you. Good luck.

Thanks for the response to my questions and guidance along the way, now it's all on me to pull it together. I think I understand this statement, but perhaps it's the wording that has me a little puzzled. Are you stating to find the above location, then place the mids there? I understand the equidistant/equal angle, it's the underlined part that I'm unsure of what you're referring to. I'm assuming the mids, but perhaps the way you've worded it, it sounds as if you're referencing something else. Thanks very much ///M5 !!! I was looking back at J-raodtatts build log and the grills he used on his widebanders. I believe you referred to his 89ex's as mid's , I think I understand the underlined portion of the quote now, my 88's > mids. Thanks again ///M5 !

I can tell you from experience/mistake the 2000d will be very grumpy at .5 ohm.

Well, Tues. was a no go. Unexpected Dr. appointment, for my mom. Today I went out and put the 88's on the dash wired up the 300/2 and ran some temporary power/ground wires for the eclipse AV8533. I fired everything up and started adjusting. Holy Crap!! It's like cheating. It took about 1ms. of delay on the drivers side 88 to put the image in front and just to the right of me. So I started to look for a place to mount the Friggin HUGE brain for this head unit, it's longer then the 300/2 or the sax 125.2 and almost as wide. I found a good spot and started to remove the old HX-D10 and install the 8533. I believe the wires are long enough to mount the brain in the house and still be able to drive around the block. After everything was installed I put the 125.2 and the 300/2 in the pass. seat wire them up and started to listen again. I had only the 88's playing and found aiming them at the dome light was the best spot so far. I upped the crossover to ~220 hz. and 1ms. delay to the drivers side seems to be my sweet spot. I'm surprised that the top end of the 88's seem smoother than with hx-d10. I brought the sls's up to match the 88's and started to explore TA with all four speakers. I also upped the crossover on the sls's to ~200hz. or so and raised the sub/infrasonic filter to ~ 50 hz.. It sounds pretty friggin amazing! Right now the sls's are about 6"-8" from the door panel, the drivers side woofer face is almost even with the center of the steering wheel facing the opposite side of the truck. As I played with the TA on the sls's it didn't seem to effect the sound much, if any, at all. The stage is above the dash just below my eyes outside the base of the windshield, no longer in my face. The width is just inside the a pillars at the moment. I will try aiming the 88's more on Friday and this weekend to improve the width if possible in these locations. Please give my an educated guess on the following 2 questions. I understand that there are allot of variables that will effect the outcome. Do you think TA will have more of an effect once the sls's are mounted in the door, at the boundaries of the vehicle? I assume width and depth are more an outcome of aiming then processing. Would you agree or disagree?

I have not received the DC 28's yet. I'll put the eclipse av8533 in the truck Tues. and post back on the 88's after. I'm not against an active 3-way front stage. That is the end goal if necessary, but learning a 2-way first for now. I have the a-pillars/ dash/ sail panels and the doors as potential places for speakers. Would you recommend anything different for the locations I'm using now, for a 2-way? It sounds to me that you believe I have a solid system that I need to work with now. By this spring I should have the pioneer p99rs installed and have all the processing I need to achieve my future goals, a smile on my face every time I turn the system on..

The system in my truck right now is jl 5x7's in the doors and an eclipse sub behind me, with #1 jl300/2 and sundown 2000D driving them. I don't have any of the above on when listening to the 88's/sls's. I am putting the amps in the pass. seat ( for the 88's/sls') to be able to adjust them easily ( #2 300/2 and 125.2). These amps are not part of the jl/eclipse system in the truck. I can reach both 88's on the dash as well as the amps form the drivers seat to make any adjustments. Once I'm able to get the 88's to sound and image well I'll remove the 5x7's from the door and mount the sls's in the door. I don't want to go without a "backup" system until I've made some progress with the 88's and know it what I'm doing will be worth the effort. I ordered the tweeters before you came into this thread and was considering a low crossed tweeter and the exodus anarchy's or another mid. The Dayton tweeter got decent reviews and was only $10.00 so I thought it would help me with which direction I will wind up going with. After yesterday's listening impressions, I believe the top end of the 88 is a little strained/ragged and will probably require a tweeter up top. I know I can't fit a large format tweeter and the 88 on the dash at the same time.

I'm not using the sub at all while listening to the new speakers. I didn't notice a big difference in switching the phase on the 88's, in any combination. Allot of the 88/w3 installs I've seen are vented to the dash or a pillar. I'll try removing the pvc end cap leaving them mounted to the bushing and "nesting" them in a shirt/towel or something. I'm using the end caps as an easy way to test/aim them. I don't believe these will be part of the final install. I will make glass dash/a pillar enclosures for them. As for the sls's in too small of an enclosure, they sound tight, controlled and still have a great deal of output. I have the sub/infrasonic filter below 20 hertz, I may have to raise it some, but I don't think any of the music I listen to contains information below 30-35 hertz. I did model the sls's with BBP6 and thought I'd be disappointed with the results, but I'm pretty happy with there sound. I have a very hard time listening to the sls's by themselves or either mid I have for that matter. Without the higher frequency information present they're uninspiring. Slightly off topic, the tweeter on the pass. 5"x7" is out again. I believe the 300/2 in the truck is the possible problem. There is a "frequency sweep" being played through the front 5"x7"'s that happen with the truck running or not. I pulled a second 300/2 from my other car and did all testing yesterday with this second amp. The "sweep" was no longer present. The first couple of hours were spent with only the fr88's playing, while adjusting there crossover point/slope and aiming. The crossover points/slopes I posted above were where they sound best, alone or together. I am not looking for a 2 seater, it's my money, time and ears, so "sorry about your luck" passenger. I would like "centered" to be in front of me or at least very close. Maybe Tues. I'll put the eclipse in and see what some processing will do for me. As for "steering" the front stage with a L/R eq., I read a very good thread on this topic that I'd like to try but can't until have a head unit with this ability. As I understood it, you play tones across the entire freq. spectrum (1/3 oct.) one at a time and boost/cut evenly each one until it is "centered". This must be done more than once since your effecting the freq. around the center freq. as well. I believe the thread was: "Help the sound stage ate my windshield". I was doing some reading on Zaph's website, looking at tweeters last week. I ordered some last week. I've never heard a large format tweeter before, I'm curious to see what this one will sound like. They are the Dayton DC28F's.

Looking good Sir-Lance! Everything's cut, now the "great Fun" begins!

This belongs in your sig. I almost shot beer through my nose. :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Well, i spent about 5 hours listening today to the 88's and then added the sls's. I'm discouraged. I understand that this won't happen in a day, but I thought I'd do a little better with the imaging. I was able to get 2 cd's to sound centered. Billy Joel greatest hits and Bob James and David Sanborn Double Vision with Al Jarreau on vocals. Steely Dan usually sound great, but even his voice was from both speakers. Everything else sounds like it's coming from both speakers. I only have balance control with this head unit. The best I was able to achieve was aiming the 88's at each other and loosing the highs or at the dome light witch is 8"-9" to my right, 6"-7" above my right ear and about even depth wise front to back. I tried them in the kicks, even tho I can't place them there, in front of the factory door speaker and pretty much everywhere else I could think of. The kitchen sink and fridge were next on my list, but my wires aren't long enough. I even tried the right fr88 on the center of the dash so the path lengths were about even, no joy. I assume reflections are causing this. I kept all crossovers on a 12 db per octive slope. The crossover points I wound up with were, fr88's high passed @ 200 hertz (drivers side reverse phase) and the sls's low passed @ 160 hertz in the .18 c.f. boxes on thefloor in front of the factory door locations(I did not play with the phase at all). I had the sub/infrasonic filter close to 10hz. as they seemed to have no issues playing whatever I sent to them. I would like to add a second pair of sls's or switch to another 6-1/2" with more low end. It's seductive as we all know. I was eying the exodus anarchy's a while back, but sandt38 suggested cdt's es-06+ or css sdx7 instead. They blend decent at these points, but the 88's seem to need a little "more" in its lower frequencies. The crossover points i'm giving are assuming .707 x the target voltage gives me the -3db point. Thanks Impious. I used tones that downloaded from sandt38's sig.. Thanks Seth. I measured these after I was done listening. I have a test cd coming sometime net week with warble tones, We'll see if this helps me across the entire frequency spectrum. I'm able to cut or boost the mid freq. at 700, 1,000 or 2,000 with my current head unit. It also allows me to choose a Q of 1.5 or 2. I found that cutting ( -2) 2000 hz. with a Q of 1.5 helped to smooth some music and was not needed with others. I'm able to cut or boost high freq. at 8,000 or 12,000 with a Q of 2. I was boosting 12,000 on most music by +2 or +3. I've done allot of reading on improving your sound stage and if I only got one thing from it, That is to get everything the best you can before adding sound processing. I'm thinking if I switch to the eclipse head unit now I've just complicated things even more. What would you recommend I do at this point? Is it possible to achieve a center image without time alignment in my location? I did have width, "mostly", with the 5" x 7"'s in the door, but not depth. As I understand it the low/forward door location is "wider " than the a pillars are, due to the fact that you have to turn you head to see them, not just your eyes. I await a nudge in the right direction. I won't have time to do anything tomorrow, I'll try again Tues..

comepletely agree w/ you m5. But i should have said that i use to have problems with the 3inch on the dash. i'm working on a build log right now but basically i really didn't like staring at huge fugly pods on my dash.. could i have worked with the install to get it sounding better? sure, but i think im heading in a better direction now. I'm glad to hear that you were able to "tame" your 3" full range speakers.

1) What was wrong with mounting the SLS IB? > First let me state that, "it's all in the install" , is one factor that has been pounded into my head since I've been on this site and I believe this to be 110% true. In the past I have never liked the sound of a speaker IB in a door, they don't seem tight/controlled enough to me and I prefer to not be heard outside of the truck. I also must state that I've probably not heard a properly prepare door either, such as what J-roadtatts has done to his doors. I'm going to get hammered for this one, I just know it. I understand that quality sound deadening products used correctly will give better results than the products I've used. I prepared my doors with peel-n-seal inside and out as well as the rest of the truck, followed by vent duct vibration dampening material (adhesive rubbery sponge closed cell foam) on the outer skin. I sealed the p-n-s with foil tape to stop any asphalt smell. This actually worked better than I expected, but I still need to close 2 large openings on the inner panel. There are many holes that I can't do anything about such as the the ones for the door clips and those are ~2" x 2" and about 8 of them. I had the cosmetic door panel off at first with the sls's mounted to an 8" x 8" x 1/2" mdf baffle bolted over the stock 5" x7" opening. When I moved my hand around the surface of the inner door skin I was amazed, not in a good way, at how much air was entering the cabin from the holes in the door. The door and mirror shook like crazy. My thought was the sls's sound "crappy" and had no output because the back wave was canceling out the front due to all the leaks that I can't stop. That's when I built the enclosures for them. Obviously, I was correct in my assumption. I was quite impressed with the sls's in the .15 c.f. boxes, both in output and sound quality and they still had the ability to play to ~ 45 hertz with authority. I'd still like more/louder levels as long as they stay clean/accurate. Using a sealed box in the door is very appealing due to it being the "easy" way to me. I don't know that I can sufficiently seal or deaden the doors to my goal of stopping vibration and cancellation. 2) What crossover capability (slope, frequency etc) do you have? > I have a jl 300/2 (150 x 2 @ 1.5 -4 ohms) for the fr88' with 12/24 db per octive available to me. I've not had a chance to play with these yet, hopefully tomorrow I can get a 300/2 in the pass. seat to better adjust them. I've been high passing the 88' ~ 250 - 300 hertz in the truck, but I believe they will go lower than that. The first time I listened to the 88's in the truck I was using a coustic 240se with a 12 db per octive slope and had them as low as ~ 180 (if the markings on the amp are somewhat close) . They sound much more full and to my liking. I'll try with my 300/2 by them selves and see what happens. As of now I have a sundown 125.2 on the sls's with a 12 db per octive slope (125 x 2 @ 4 ohms). I believe the sound best in the 45 - 250 hertz range. I'll have to set and mark these points on the crossover with a DMM to be sure this is close, I'm only guessing at the markings on the crossover at this point and using my ears. 3) What does the back of the FR88 enclosure look like? . They are mounted in 3" pvc end caps with bushings and stuffed with batting. when pushed together it's 19.25 c.i., pulled apart 38.5 c.i. I will take a few hours tomorrow to listen to the 88's by themselves and with the sls's and post back. I have not used warble tones before, I'll read up on them tonight and try them tomorrow. Thanks for bringing your time, knowledge and experience to my system.

I will be selling this enclosure and subs soon. D2 coils, box is 48" x 17" x 14" (width x height x depth). I think I'll be going back to an eclipse 88120 ti dvc in a new build starting next sometime next week.

Welcome.

very nice.

This is a long post, sorry, but should convey the series of events that leads to where I stand now. This is what I'm working with now. The entire truck has received some type of deadening. Head unit..................Clarion HX-D10........... No processing.........3 band parametric eq. I have a brand new eclipse av8533 that I could install and will give me a better eq. as well as time alignment and individual driver level control. Front stage amp (amps).....jl 300/2 .. sundown 125.2 " " speakers ....... jl xr-570 component coax 80 hertz high pass. These give me very little mid bass. I have no intention of running any rear speakers besides subs. I ran across the tangband w3 bambo and the fountek fr88's and thought one main speaker would give me better imaging and possibly simplify installation and tuning. These are the best locations I've found for them in testing, with the left side being dominant for obvious reasons. The driver side a pillar. The pass. side a pillar. View to drivers side kick/door. View to pass. side kick/door. I purchased the w3's and the fr88's and listened to them both. I thought the fr88's sound better at louder levels. I tried high passing them from 150 hertz up to 300 hertz with a 12 db per oct. slpoe, with a coustic 240se amp and was pretty happy with there overall sound. If I went without a tweeter now I don't believe it would be too hard to integrate later if needed. I started searching for 6-1/2" mid bass speakers and 2 kept coming up. The peerless sls's and dayton audio. I ended up buying the peerless 830946. I mounted them on a 1/2" mdf baffle in the stock speaker location. I was impressed with how they rattled my doors and mirrors, but not how they sound in the truck. I went to bbp6 and modeled them in a ported enclosure, .3 c.f.c tuned to 75 hertz for 2 sls's. That's about the space I have to work within each door. I want a sealed enclosure in the door, I want to eliminate as many possibilities of rattles as I can from the jump. I built the above box out of 3/4" mdf and tried listening again, still not impressed. They sounded slow/muddy to me without allot of output. I kept looking and saw these for ten dollars at P.E.. peerless sds For some reason I associated long throw and slow, that's the reason for the sds's. I know it's not a mid bass, but it cost me $20.00 to see for myself if short stroke equals a quicker /tight speaker. In my 93 cobra I achieved a great front stage, the xr-650's in small sealed kick pods would send a shock wave through you. This is why I tried the sds's. This is the 93 cobra, jl300/2 on components 78 hertz and up, jl 500/1 on 8w3v2's 70 hertz and down. During the 4-sa8 sub build I found that the pass. side tweeter was blown, so I replaced it with a (jl) tr silk dome I had from some jl coax's. Then started playing with the phase. When I reversed the phase on the drivers side tweeter the stage was outside the left a pillar and pretty much centered. I'm happy with them, but more importantly, I realized for the first time door speakers can image very well. The xr-570's have very good sound to my ears. Don't know why it took me so long to pull my head out and go try it for myself. A week ago I built (2) 3/4" thick birch boxes, sealed @ .15 c.f.. I listened to the sls's and the sds's firing towards each other from in front of the door locations. Day 1, I turned the crossover on the xr-570's up to ~ 250 hertz high pass and hooked the sds's/sls's to the 125.2 and listened for about 3 hours to both. I thought the sds's sounded better. Day 2, I hooked the fr88's up to the 300/2 ~ 250 - 300 hertz high pass at the location in the above pics and listened to both mids again for about 3 hours, same material. The sls's sounded better to me, but the 88's were a bit hollow. I will spend more time with the 88's on an amp that I can adjust the crossover's on both (on the pass. seat) on the fly to see if they sound more cohesive together. So now I'm at a crossroad. Do I work with a full range/mid bass or go back to the door with a mid that plays low with authority and some tweeters. My biggest problem is I have no way to hear anything but main stream car audio speakers unless I buy them. Therefore I, like most, must rely on the experience of people like you to interpret what I think sounds good to me by the limited equipment I have access to.