10.118" spider on a 3" coil O_o Any concern about coil rock?

There is a very large spider to surround distance -- that keeps it very stable. Plus the revised stiff surround has a great deal of lateral stability. This one was made with the soft surround but I don't anticipate any rocking either due to the first point

The 257mm spiders showed up this morning so I assembled the 15" version today. I should be able to test it tomorrow at some point.

See photos below :

*257mm spider tool

Big chunk of these are reserved to go out to international accounts; so if you'd like to get in on the first run act as soon as you can

Just unloaded them after lunch; we'll start shipping pre-orders tomorrow.

I am really pleased with how they turned out. I wanted to see them before starting more production -- and we sold about 75% of what we got -- so there will be a period of out-of-stock on them; but we should have steady stock starting after the 2nd run !

We got them in. I'll get up some pics soon and should start shipping tomorrow.

Due to the Holiday delay we expect these Monday to Tuesday.

Despite the damaged coil I was able to pull specs then estimate where they would rest with a fully functional coil (as I have data from the 10" model to fill in the blanks that are not size dependent) -- 12" D1 model.

Re : 1.65 series

Fs : ~25.75 Hz

Qes : ~0.296

Qms : ~4.16

Qts : ~0.276

Le : ~1.8 mH

Sd : 457 cm^2

BL : ~17.23

Mms : 329 g

Cms : 115 uM/N

Sens : ~85.01 dB

BL^2/ RE : ~180 (D1 coils are usually a hair higher than D2; but for estimation purposes I used the same as the D2 coil)

So these are estimated based on the known specs and specs from the 10" D2 -- gives us a good idea.

As I mentioned in the 10" thread I may need to add more stiffness into the surround to get the specs to lay where I want them -- realistically I'd like to see the Fs into the low to mid 30s on the stock format driver. You will note that the CMS is higher than the 10" model as the spiders and surrounds get a bit softer as their size increases; thus we have an even LOWER Q figure on a 12" than we do on a 10" model -- on the Z v.3 the surrounds compensated by also getting stiffer as size increased (the 18" Z v.3surround is very stiff) -- so I'll have to do the same on the new surrounds.

So more testing will be getting done with some surround tweaks

I may put a bit more stiffness into the surrounds as well -- and for the low FS junkies I'll still be able to put on a spider from the "X" line which is one layer fewer than a "Z" line spider. This way the FS won't change so drastically in "stock" format but we can still tailor it in either direction (it would still be lower than the v.3 models, of course, just not such a HUGE change).

Pricing isn't yet available.

Got the 10" Z v.4 motor charged up to run specs on it -- so here we are (D2 coil) :

RE : 3.42 (series)

Fs : 29.4 Hz

Qes : 0.324

Qms : 4.61

Qts : 0.302

Le : 3.68 mH

Sd : 366 cm^2

BL : 24.85 NA

Mms : 316 g

Cms : 92.41 uM/N

Sens : 83.16 dB - 1w/1m

BL^2/RE : 180.56

For production the top plate ID is going to move OUT a bit (wider gap) to prevent damage in the case of excessive excursion (which is how I damaged the 12" prototype) -- this will reduce BL by a small margin but the Z v.4 motor force factor is still in excess of the v.3 version so it's a non-issue

All in all I think these specs are on target with what customers want -- compared to the v.3 we have :

1) Lower FS in stock format

2) Higher motor force

3) Higher thermal power handling (v.3 10/12 use a shorter coil than 15/18 -- v.4 use the same 15/18 coil in all sizes)

4) Higher mechanical power handling and thus more forgiveness of larger boxes (current 10s are very picky on small boxes)

So I think folks will be extremely pleased when these hit the market.

ok, now is it OK for me to apply this glue without any reprocussions to the warrantyfailure of this speaker? because i will repair it to the best of my abilities - but i do not want to be responsable if the glue fails.

thanks for getting back to me so quickly

Yes that is fine.

That glue is not designed for porous surfaces; also I don't suggest using accelerator on the foam.

A "soft" glue like Amazing Goop or E6000 is what I'd suggest.

The 10" 4 ohm model just came in today so I decided to take a few pictures of them all together. We've had the 10" in 8 ohm for some time now.

At this time all sizes 6.5 / 8 / 10 are all in stock in 4 and 8 ohm coils.

* Not everyone realizes it; but the 10" model has a separate motor and a 2.5" coil compared to the 2" on the other sizes.

* 6.5" model

* 8" model

* 10" model

We'll make the 19th the last day for this. Our current ETA is arrival at our shop the 23rd (+/- a day or two).

My camera was dead this morning -- charged it up and took this video over lunch today:

is the 15 inch stuff still in prototype stage?

The 257mm spider isn't here yet; just waiting on that.

any idea of what a recone kit will be like for the NS2 with these new parts? 15

no?

I don't have the costs in for the new parts yet. Once we confirm that it's all 100% final with our factories then we'll get costs in.

Sundown is making "cheater" subs lol.

Seriously these things look CRAZY. I have no idea where the line is drawn for usable xmax. Soft suspensions? High FS?

LINEAR x-max is generally defined as 70% BL -- I would say it's "usable" if the coil is in the gap still; not low distortion by any means but the coil is still controlled by the magnetic gap at least somewhat. Beyond that it's not really useful and just distortion, IMO, but I prefer to allow the coil to "peter out" on it's own via dropping BL than by locking up the suspension hard (if at all possible to do so within a given design). Less damaging and allows a bit more of the dynamics in a signal to get through.

Jake,

You didn't list the 18" frame dimensions above. Do you happen to have those?

(Saw your proto's video BTW... Gotta break some eggs to make an omelet. )

I am still using the 6-spoke for now for 18s -- the tooled 18" will come later in 2013.

I did make a 257mm spider adapter for the 6-spoke, though !

is the 15 inch stuff still in prototype stage?

The 257mm spider isn't here yet; just waiting on that.

What is the point of having an over sized ten? Would it still be considered a ten when competing? I'm just curious because the 10 and 12 look so similar, and I can't imagine that enclosures would be much different between the two.

The new drivers look badass by the way.

With the frame exactly "standard" size the spider we wanted to use wouldn't fit without over-lapping the terminals. The difference is really very marginal; no different than allowing something like a 10W7 or heck, even a square woofer (more Sd), in a 10" woofer class.

I saw some folks expressing concerns over the "SD" of the cones... here are a few photos :

* 10" Z v.3 Cone // 10" Z v.4 Cone

* 12" Z v.3 Cone // 12" Z v.4 Cone

* 12" Z v.3 Cone Diameter with 1/2 Surround

* 12" Z v.4 Cone Diameter with 1/2 Surround

* Total SD difference is only 10%

* 10" Z v.3 Cone Diameter with 1/2 Surround

* 10" Z v.4 Cone Diameter with 1/2 Surround

* The 10" frame is slightly over-sized... so it's actually slightly more SD

The 10" is done and drying; should be able to play tomorrow. I'll be a tad more careful this time *laughs* Of course I should be safe with the 8 3/8" spider vs. the 9 1/4" on the 12" model as I shouldn't be able to reach quite the level of throw!

This is the first 10" woofer with 3" coil that I've built that I didn't hate every second of... gives me a good feeling and I cannot wait to test it !

* Left to right : Z v.4 10 / Z v.4 12 / Z v.3 12

I have noted some doubt on whether all of these new parts will be of major benefit (not in this thread, of course, but I do see alot of things around the internet) -- what I say to that is; stay tuned for the results !

I am kicking myself a bit for getting crazy last night with it' date=' haha... what I did was push it hard enough to exit the coil completely from the gap by a large amount -- the 12" frame supports 50mm of one-way travel not counting frame thickness... 59mm with frame thickness... and 71mm with vent spacer thickness added -- minus 8mm for triple joint ring so we can go 63mm one-way before bottoming the ring... and we have 62.5mm in the motor... so I had it up around 60mm one-way (which is actually 5mm PAST surround linearity)... which makes the coil about 1/2" past the gap *laughs*

So when it came back down it knicked the top plate and knocked loose 1/2 of one voice coil (the coil is an 8-layer bifilar which is wound as a quad; so you can knock out 1/2 of a coil by breaking one wire) and this wire is rubbing on the top plate now making that metallic sound (I can see the loose wire through the vent spacer -- WOOPS!!!).

Either way I have some ideas to minimize that possibility; although, I must admit, I was being totally careless with it to do that!

Needless to say it was pretty crazy and just me being too happy with my new toy [img']http://www.caraudioclassifieds.org/forum/images/smilies/smiley.gif

Here is the wire I knocked loose -- you can see it through the vent. The piece hanging off is the part after the connection is cut so I can still play the driver (eg: not shorting out on the motor).

Coils of this type have four windings -- I broke just one so I am running on "one and a half" coils in the video.

Few more photos this morning compared to other Z model woofers :