sundownz

Quite possibly -- did you catch all the specs in the old thread ? It is that exact woofer that I used in my car.

It hasn't yet been produced other than one prototype.

I am kicking myself a bit for getting crazy last night with it, haha... what I did was push it hard enough to exit the coil completely from the gap by a large amount -- the 12" frame supports 50mm of one-way travel not counting frame thickness... 59mm with frame thickness... and 71mm with vent spacer thickness added -- minus 8mm for triple joint ring so we can go 63mm one-way before bottoming the ring... and we have 62.5mm in the motor... so I had it up around 60mm one-way (which is actually 5mm PAST surround linearity)... which makes the coil about 1/2" past the gap *laughs* So when it came back down it knicked the top plate and knocked loose 1/2 of one voice coil (the coil is an 8-layer bifilar which is wound as a quad; so you can knock out 1/2 of a coil by breaking one wire) and this wire is rubbing on the top plate now making that metallic sound (I can see the loose wire through the vent spacer -- WOOPS!!!). Either way I have some ideas to minimize that possibility; although, I must admit, I was being totally careless with it to do that! Needless to say it was pretty crazy and just me being too happy with my new toy

The Z v.3 and Z v.4 coil are the same winding length.

I did get a little too happy with it last night when I first fired it up -- you'll hear a small metallic sound because of some slight damage I did to it then (woops!). Either way I was still able to get a good test out of it for this video and show it in action -- with more testing to come as we get more prototypes together. The good news is I'll be able to make it even tougher on production thanks to my mistake =)

Prototype motor paired with new 12" frame, 9.25" spider (what we use on Z v.3 18s now), and the new cone / surround. I literally JUST finished it so I cannot play it until tomorrow. That being said... it won't QUITE be able to use ALL of the clearance we have -- and that is great -- should be INCREDIBLY rugged and hard to damage :thumbsup: For those not current on all of these parts -- they are ALL prototype parts. They are not in production yet. Production parts will start appearing 1Q 2013.

One of each showed up for us to check out -- will be building a 12" up first since that is the largest one I have a full size spider for. So that means I can take a video of it tomorrow ! On to the photos... they turned out way crazier than I imagined. 18" Cone ---------- 15" Cone ---------- 12" Cone ---------- 10" Cone

Once I get all the parts fully launched on 3" coil designs we'll start on some 4" coil designs -- perhaps 1/2 way through next year for prototypes.

Sale over.

Ricci, All of the designs in the works to use specifically with these frames so far will run out of motor force before the suspension or mechanical clearance is spent -- either coil to back plate or triple joint to top plate bottoming would be nearly impossible. When paired with some existing motors we've made the new parts will open up a possibility of hard bottom -- on most of our motors that is past 40mm one-way still. I'll likely end up using a bit of spider limiting on future designs that are pushing towards what we can support mechanically. In car audio designs if the motor still has force and the suspension runs out the end-users will break neck joints -- so I've tried to steer away from that as a limit The Z v.3 18" surround is a pretty good high roll unit -- it's linearity is good to the 30s -- it will move into the ~40mm range without tearing -- and I have seen it stretch a bit beyond that but it's in the range where it would fatigue and tear over time and certainly not linear. I do have several ideas in the works that would support full copper pole sleeves as well, yes! The cut-outs are not exactly standard -- they are as follows before paint : 15 -- 352mm (13.85") // ~14-14.125" standard range (OD and screw holes are the same as a 12-spoke so can still mount in the hole if centered) 12 -- 282mm (11.10") // 11-11.125" standard range (close enough to fit most cut-outs) 10 -- 255mm (10.04") // 9.25-9.375" standard range (this one is farthest off... had to push it out slightly to fit the right spider) Thanks for the comments

I know everyone has been anxiously awaiting these models to be available for ordering -- today is the day !!! So pick them up and be one of the first with the new models !!! ---------- http://www.caraudioclassifieds.org/forum/sundown-audio/137342-saz-1200d-prototype.html ** SAZ-1200D Information Thread http://www.caraudioclassifieds.org/forum/sundown-audio/123265-saz-2500d-v-2-prototype-completed.html ** SAZ-2500D v.2 Information Thread http://www.caraudioclassifieds.org/forum/sundown-audio/125227-sundown-saz-3500d-v-2-prototype-complete.html ** SAZ-3500D v.2 Information Thread ---------- Production started last week. Our estimated delivery date to our shop is by the end of January 2012. As with any pre-order delivery times are an ETA (estimated time of arrival) and are not a guarantee of the delivery date. DO NOT order if you are not okay with possible delays as there will be no refunds for delays. SAZ-1200D : Pre-Order Price : $340.00 Regular Price : $400.00 SAZ-2500D v.2 : Pre-Order Price : $650.00 Regular Price : $775.00 SAZ-3500D v.2 : Pre-Order Price : $900.00 Regular Price : $1125.00 Pricing is shipped in continental 48 states. Contact us for a SH quote to AK or HI. !!! THIS IS FOR USA ONLY !!! To order get in touch with your favorite local or online dealer or send a Paypal in to us at [email protected] ---------- * SAZ-1200D Insides * SAZ-2500D v.2 Insides

I've had this guy for a while but it seems I never posted up about it. Here are some photos of it -- tests out very similar to the SAX-1200D in power but is in our new narrow casing with a new layout. Pre-order coming soon along with 2500D v.2 and 3500D v.2 models... ETA by end of January 2013. * Much smaller than SAZ-1500D

http://www.caraudioclassifieds.org/forum/sundown-audio/129896-e8-v-3-prototypes-7-26-12-a.html ** Thread of prototype development As with any pre-order delivery times are an ETA (estimated time of arrival) and are not a guarantee of the delivery date. DO NOT ORDER if you are not okay with possible delays on the delivery. That being said the ETA is middle of January 2013 on these. ---------- Pre-Order Price : $75.00 Regular Price : $95.00 Pricing is shipped in continental 48 states. Contact us for a SH quote to AK or HI. !!! THIS IS FOR USA ONLY !!! To order get in touch with your favorite local or online dealer or send a Paypal in to us at [email protected] YOU MUST INCLUDE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. If these are both not included your payment will be refunded. ---------- DEPTH = 130mm // 5.118" Suggested Box = 0.5 to 0.75 ported tuned to 35 Hz Power = 300 RMS E8 v.3 D4: Re: 6.29 ohms Fs: 51.9 Hz Qes: 0.61 Qms: 3.39 Qts: 0.52 Le: 3.88 mH Vas: 5.11 L BL: 18.47 NA Mms: 102 g Cms: 91.9 uM/N Sens: 82.42 dB 1w/1m Bl^2/Re: 54.25 Xmax : 12mm one-way 70% BL E8 v.3 D2: Re: 4.19 ohms Fs: 52.7 Hz Qes: 0.60 Qms: 3.39 Qts: 0.51 Le: 2.69 mH Vas: 4.99 L BL: 15.32 NA Mms: 101.5 g Cms: 89.76 uM/N Sens: 82.6 dB 1w/1m Bl^2/Re: 55.95 Xmax : 12mm one-way 70% BL You can think of these as an SA-8 v.1/1.5 with a little less motor force, stamped frame, and shorter coil -- the soft parts are essentially identical to those models otherwise. So expect performance nearly up to par those models for less money. ---------- * Introduction Video * Next to SA-8 v.2 * Next to E8v.2

LAST DAY !!!

We've had 3" wide surrounds since the '90s. Looks like you've essentially just made them taller. I don't know that I'd call that an innovative progression. There have been some other innovations during that time that allowed not only for suitable surround geometry to meet an excursion goal but also not eat into Sd at the same time (actually it increased Sd)....and that was a decade ago. I'd be interested in seeing some actual measurements of the linearity of that surround compared to some of the more standard implementations. Any issues with additional stress placed upon the cone? You may be surprised how limited the throw is on some "high throw / high Sd" surrounds out there. The TC "LMS" surround is limited to mid to high 30s one-way -- I've got a slew of taller surrounds around the shop also limited to the mid 30s to low 40s at best. That isn't going to cut it for what I want (I've had customers bottom out, to the point of crushing the former, a motor with 47.5mm of clearance... while ALSO tearing the current surround tools -- for reference). If the surround is to grow too much in height alone it becomes unstable. Our new surrounds geometrically allow the following : 10" model - 50mm one-way (42mm x 42mm) 12" model - 55mm one-way (46mm x 46mm) 15" model - 60mm one-way (50mm x 50mm) 18" model - 60mm one-way (50mm x 50mm) Each one with about 5mm one-way more than the frame can handle so we don't stretch / fatigue / prematurely destroy the surround with an even shape to keep them stable. As an example of a tall surround design we could use for the 10" that is an "Sd saving" 30mm wide -- we would need a 58mm tall roll assuming a regular half ellipse shape. Not going to be incredibly stable laterally or act very well at high levels of travel. We'd gain about 11% Sd with the 1/2 surround Sd method -- or about 0.3 dB -- not sure about everyone else but I'd prefer a more stable surround design when high stroke is involved. While a big surround is not a new idea -- I am using them in a forward thinking manner where I will not be exhausting the surround capacity well before the rest of the design. Often times big surrounds on drivers have been eye candy with no intent to use the capacity... these surrounds can handle any motor design the new frames can support and we will be pushing towards that with this platform with new designs in the works. At the moment the frames and surrounds will be ahead of all of our motors -- I say that is great -- plenty of room to work without re-developing all the other parts along the way. I am sure not everyone will agree with my design approach -- but the more drivers I get on the market the more clear it is to me that soft parts limiting travel is responsible for a very high percentage of failures... it's also responsible for limited what is possible in SPL towards the extreme end. I've already collected some nice data on the issue with the "Hi-X 12" option we've been offering on the Z v.3 model. That being said... the new units I'm designing are not necessarily for a casual user or for everyone -- they are for users that will be pushing the products to their limits. PS: Once it's all said and done we'll have Klippel reports coming in on new products.

Of course there is a small Sd reduction; we can either be sticklers for every tiny piece of Sd and stick with the current level of excursion forever -- or move to the next level of surround geometry and open up higher excursion Part of the surround is part of Sd as well so the reduction is not dramatic. The benefit of additional travel will most certainly out-weight the trade-off as well.

I got the first pictures in of all of the new cones / surrounds -- they are on the way to me for testing so hope to have some mocked up soon! 10" cone / surround (with revised material from last picture) : 12" cone / surround : 15" cone / surround : 18" cone / surround (for the 6-spoke) :

I'm always working on stuff We do have a complete X line in the pipe for 2013 -- 8/10/12/15/18 models -- our most complete line as far as sizes go! The 12" will likely be completed first -- but stay tuned to the forums for that info.

I made a new topic over on CACO about it -- basically... bottom line is I have to write off all the tooling on this project as a total loss and start over due to vendor problems. I am re-working a 2.5" coil 8" woofer around the SA-8 v.2 platform to be the X-8 -- stay tuned !

Revised ETA is 3rd week of November; pretty close to on target as of now

Not yet -- as I am still awaiting the final cones / surrounds.

The primary goal is to, as much as possible, remove suspension limits from the equation. At the extreme end of throw you see triple joint failures, surround failures, spiders coming off baskets, triple joint smashing into top plate, etc. All related to the suspension components reaching limitations and/or the frame clearance being exhausted. The 10" frame size has been particularly annoying to me as I've yet to find a really good 10" frame in regards to spider to surround clearance that also has a big spider landing (eg: some have a large clearance but have a small landing size)... but that is all resolved with the new tooling. More throw can also increase SPL as well if the application calls for it -- we've seen 1+ dB anywhere from the 30s to the 50s Hz range in applications where the woofers need to move more by stepping up a spider size AND keeping the FS matched ("Hi-X" 12" frame option on Z v.3 / NS v.2 motors has been a great test bed -- we've built close to 100 units on that platform -- it was merely an open tool frame with a bit larger landing -- our tooled frame has an even larger spider and surround, though). In order to both increase excursion and be able to match a broad range of FS goals we'll have a total of 12 different spiders that fit the new frames so when custom building we can meet pretty well any frequency range goal. These frames will appear on the X, Z,and NS line woofers. Each line gets one layer extra spider as you go up in power (these are all pressed packs like we use on our SA and Z v.3 lines now -- three compliance levels x 3 different sizes = 9 spiders) -- it doesn't change FS as much as one would imagine as the stock coil also gains a bit of mass in each line up. I like to keep the "stock" format friendly for daily setups and then offer re-cones or custom builds for SPL or specialized apps. For custom apps we'll also stack a line of "stackable" spiders similar in composition to the NS v.1 line but designed to fit the largest landing on each frame (3 more models for the total of 12). Naturally we'll also be opened up to making much larger / heavier motors if necessary with the added frame strength. I also get to use my spacer vent rings to channel the air the way I like it to be channeled to increase thermal capacity. Primary advantage summary : 1) More excursion / lower distortion 2) More SPL potential at any frequency range 3) Physically stronger 4) Higher thermal capacity 5) A bit of a repeat of the above in combination... but overall enhanced reliability / longevity. As far as our smaller lines -- I am looking into tooling another line of frames at some point within 1.5-2 years that are more light weight and shallower that still allow a larger spider to be used to use on less expensive models. Obviously as a shallower frame maximum excursion won't be as much as these frames; but the models they would be used on don't require it. At that point we'll have a full line of frames for any application.

We've had lots of positive feedback on it pretty well across the board. A few things to keep in mind : 1) It's still an 8" woofer. So it's not going to out-perform a well installed comparable quality 12" woofer. 2) The main reason to get one is for a SMALL ported box; 0.5-0.75 per driver is perfect. This in mind it is somewhat difficult to install ONE of them unless you go with a PR as the port gets pretty long. 3) The low-end extension is actually MUCH better than you would think -- I have three in 1.5 cubes in one of my cars tuned to 30 hz. It PEAKS at 29 Hz at ~145dB with windows down. So pretty darn impressive in that much box volume. 4) Often times people get the idea it's an SPL driver -- which we do offer custom options as such -- but the stock unit is centered around lots of bottom end output and overall it's a pretty low disortion driver. Overall I couldn't be happier with it for what we designed it for. I am not sure how many owners are on this particular forum but the uptake is over 2x faster than the older SA-8 model so there are tons of them out there with great feedback to us

I'd expect them somewhere in that range.

http://www.caraudioc...prototypes.html ** Thread of prototype development As with any pre-order delivery times are an ETA (estimated time of arrival) and are not a guarantee of the delivery date. DO NOT ORDER if you are not okay with possible delays on the delivery. That being said the ETA is middle of January 2013 on these. ---------- Pre-Order Price : $115 Regular Price : $140 Pricing is shipped in continental 48 states. Contact us for a SH quote to AK or HI. !!! THIS IS FOR USA ONLY !!! To order get in touch with your favorite local or online dealer or send a Paypal in to us at [email protected] YOU MUST INCLUDE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. If these are both not included your payment will be refunded. ---------- Suggested Box : 0.25 ft^3 sealed (These will run ported if desired in 0.5 ft^3) Depth : 4.75" Power : 300 RMS Top Plate Height : 25mm Coil Height : 12.5mm/ 8-layer Copper Former : Special low eddy current alloy w/ spiral cut X-Max : 14.5mm by 70% BL in FEA Topology : Under-Hung Re : 6.03 ohms (series) Fs : 45.2 Hz Qes : 0.63 Qms : 7.31 Qts : 0.58 Le : 6.26 mH Sd : 30.68 in^2 Vas : 7.74 L BL : 15.55 NA Mms : 89 g Cms : 138 uM/N Sens 1w/1m : 82.29 dB ---------- * Same spider as the SA-8 v.2 but only one layer (top layer) * Solid pole like the other SD-2 woofers so there is no need to leave room to breathe behind them. * For this design I used drilling in the basket as opposed to the vent ring to save depth. * Left to right : E8 v.2 // SD-2 8 // SA-8 v.2