sundownz

To order a drop-in re-cone assembly e-mail [email [email protected]][email protected] -- do not e-mail my "sundownz" address if you need a quick response.To reduce back-and-forth e-mails ALWAYS include the following : 1) What you are ordering -- Model, Coil Configuration, Etc. 2) If you already have a basket or not; please check below for any special notes. 3) If you need ANY custom options please specify up front. 4) !!! YOUR ADDRESS AND NAME !!! 5) A picture of what you have goes a long way to be SURE we are talking about the same thing. 6) When you send payment include ALL details of your drop-in on the notes(model, size, coil configuration, options, etc) (Revised 9-23-14) : IT WILL TAKE, ON AVERAGE, 1-2 weeks for a built item like a drop-in to be completed. It may take longer depending on how busy our build department is and/or if all of the parts are currently in stock -- please keep this in mind. Updates will NOT be sent along the way -- an update will occur when the product is shipped. You can e-mail us to check on the status; [email [email protected]][email protected]; an exact completion time is not available but we can confirm if it is done, in process, or is in the shipping area. These are fully BUILT real "drop-in" assemblies -- you shim them out, glue them in, and attach a dust cap so there is a bit of a lead time. We do not ship out a box of loose parts! Thanks for your patience . ---------- Update (8-26-14) : There are a few guy out there that can build our drop-ins (OEM style or customized) as they are authorized to buy our parts if you are in a hurry and our lead time is too long -- you must order through them and do all contact / follow-up with them. Doing business with any of the following builders is completely separate from doing business direct with us and their pricing may vary from ours; but I can say we have done business with all of these guys for many years now and we are comfortable with their work. They all have good feedback on the forums as well : David Moore ("TeamPSI" on CACO) -- Mississippi -- <Info @ FixMySpeaker.com> Corey Dean ("SPLaudio" on Forums) -- New York -- <splaudio78 @ hotmail.com> David Leib ("FLAstrongman" on CACO) -- Florida -- <flastrongman @ gmail.com> ---------- EDIT 8/30/11 : WE CANNOT WARRANTY DIY RE-CONE ASSEMBLY ISSUES. Read and understand this -- if you are not 110% sure about re-coning the driver ask us or send it in. We can ONLY stand behind labor that we perform. Manufacturing defects in the kit itself are of course our responsibility but installation is 100% the customer responsibility. This includes ticking, broken parts, etc. EDIT 10/14/13 : MAKE SURE to check your re-cone BEFORE installing it for complete accuracy. This includes using a DMM to make sure you received the correct voice coil configuration. As this is a DIY process everyone performing a drop-in should have access to a multi-meter. If there is a mistake on the kit we need to know BEFORE you glue it all in place!!! Once the kit is glued into place we will not be be liable for any errors in it's construction. CHECK IT OVER FIRST. If it is not correct we will issue a call tag for it and build you the correct kit for you ASAP. Also... any CHANGES to a drop-in order must be done in the form of a new order. We will no longer CHANGE an existing drop-in order without refunding the original payment and creating an entirely new order so that ALL of your details are IN WRITING on the payment slip from Paypal. There will be absolutely NO changes to drop-in orders on the phone!!! Changing existing orders and making any adjustments on the phone open up too many possibilities for errors. ---------- This thread over-rides any prior quotes or costs. These prices are the same for everyone; Team, dealer, customer, etc. All costs + SH charges. ---------- KITS DO NOT include shims or glue. White paper trimmed / stacked to spec works perfectly for shimming -- use enough where it is snug but not so tight you can barely get the coil in the gap. For glue we suggest Loc-Tite 5-minute epoxy with mixing tubes to glue the spider to the frame (MAKE SURE to sand it first) and we suggest Amazing Goop or E6000 for the surround and dust cap (sand frame for surround and rough up the glue surface of the dust cap with sand paper as well). These can be purchased from Lowes or Home Depot very commonly and some Wal-Mart and Craft Stores. We can sell CA glue by request but it typically is not very cost effective for the end user. Most kits DO NOT include the solder tabs that attach to the terminals; these should be RE-USED. Simply cut off any heat-shrink (if present) and de-solder the old lead wire from the tab. Make sure the terminal post is still tight; and then re-solder the new lead to the tab. If you require new tabs you will need to order a complete terminal to get them. ---------- The frame price comes with gasket and terminals -- but if you need any plastic spacers those are extra and you must request them. ---------- MODEL -- RE-CONE Price -- FRAME Price E8 v.1 and v.2 Kits are DISCONTINUED (9-23-14) E8 v.3 / v.4 -- $30.00 -- (Frame Not Available) * D2 / D4 Available * Specify v.3 or v.4 E-10 v.1 or v.2 -- $35 -- $10 E-12 v.1 or v.2 -- $35 -- $10 E-15 v.1 or v.2 -- $45 -- $10 * D2 / D4 Available * Specify v.1 or v.2 !!!FOR SA-8 KITS SEE THIS THREAD TO DETERMINE WHAT MODEL YOU HAVE. WE MUST HAVE THIS INFO TO MAKE THE CORRECT KIT!!! SA-8 v.1 or v1.5 -- $32.00 -- $10.00 * MUST SPECIFY v.1 or v1.5 when ordering !!! * D2 / D4 available Stock * CCAW 4-layer D2 or D4 SPL Coils Available No Extra Charge (these are lighter but can still be used daily as the gap is not tighter than stock) SA-8 v.2 -- $50.00 -- $15.00 * D2 / D4 available Stock * CCAW 4-layer D2 or D4 SPL Coils Available No Extra Charge (these are lighter but can still be used daily as the gap is not tighter than stock) * Extra Spiders Available for $5.00 Extra Each for a MAX of SIX (stock is two); DO NOT order extra spiders for anything but SPL SD-2 8 -- $40.00 -- $15.00 * D2 or D4 * You CANNOT change the impedance of your SD-2 8" -- you must order the same coil as it originally had; the D2 and D4 gaps are different. SD-2 10 -- $35.00 -- $15.00 SD-2 12 -- $35.00 -- $18.00 * D2 / D4 available SA-10 -- $40.00 -- $15.00 SA-12 -- $40.00 -- $18.00 SA-15 -- $50.00 -- $21.00 SA-18 -- $75.00 -- $40.00 * SA-10/12/15 add $20.00 for SPL Coils (D1,D2,D4) -- they are 8-layer flat aluminum * D2 / D4 available in stock copper NSv1 12 -- $100.00 -- $25.00 NSv1 15 -- $110.00 -- $30.00 NSv1 18 -- $120.00 -- $40.00 * 3 Layer Spider Pack Stock * Add $10.00 for double leads * Z v.3/X Spider Available No Extra Charge (Black Pack) * Z v.4 Spider Pack Add $10 (Yellow Pack) for 15s and 18s only * NS v.3 Spider Pack Add $20 (Red Pack) for 15s and 18s only * D1 / D2 Available NSv2 12 -- $130.00 -- $25.00 NSv2 15 -- $140.00 -- $30.00 NSv2 18 -- $150.00 -- $40.00 * 3 Layer Spider Pack Stock * Add $10.00 for double leads * Z v.3/X Spider Available No Extra Charge (Black Pack) * Z v.4 Spider Pack Add $10 (Yellow Pack) for 15s and 18s only * NS v.3 Spider Pack Add $20 (Red Pack) for 15s and 18s only * D1 / D2 Available Zv2 12 -- $100.00 -- $25.00 Zv2 15 -- $110.00 -- $30.00 Zv2 18 -- $120.00 -- $40.00 * Copper or Aluminum Coils Available * Z v.3 Spider Pack Now Standard (5/1/12) * MUST USE Z v.3 SPACER * Z v.4 Spider Pack Add $10 (Yellow Pack) for 15s and 18s only * NS v.3 Spider Pack Add $20 (Red Pack) for 15s and 18s only * D1 / D2 Available Z v.3 10" -- $115.00 -- $20.00 Z v.3 12" -- $115.00 -- $25.00 Z v.3 15" -- $125.00 -- $30.00 Z v.3 18" -- $135.00 -- $40.00 * D1 / D2 Available * Add $10 for Z v.4 Spider Pack (15s and 18s Only) * NS v.3 Spider Pack Add $20 (Red Pack) for 15s and 18s only * The 10/12 models use a different coil than the 15/18 models !!!! IMPORTANT NOTE : YOU MUST USE OUR NEWEST 12-spoke 15" FRAMES TO USE THE Z v.3, v.4, X OR NS v.3 SPIDER PACKS !!!! They are 8 3/8" spiders and require a modified top landing. The other spiders for 10/12 and the 18 are compatible with any 12-spoke / 6-spoke that I am aware of. Also -- the NS cone will NOT be offered on ANY drivers with a v.3 style spider pack in 15s or 18s. The v.3 spiders (Z v.3 and NS v.3) can exceed the mechanical limits of the NS style cones in these sizes.

I don't think we'll make October; I am still tuning the suspension on them a bit and I'm waiting on another round of soft parts.

There are currently no options for the SA-8 v.2 cone and dust cap

Preferably at least 1" or so -- it will depend on your power level. The higher the power the more room you want for it to breathe; the less distance the less effective the air exchange will be.

I am back as of last night around midnight -- huge jet-lag but made it in today to get started getting back up to speed.

CarAudioBargain.com New authorized B-Stock vendor is available. Check the site for what is available (click an item and it will show In Stock or not).

I am going out of town for an extended business trip on July 23rd -- I will be returning August 5th. I am the only one that will be gone; everyone else will still be here. That DOES mean that I will temporarily close down ordering of Refurbished Woofers and the Yard Sale while I am away since I manage those two projects myself. That DOES NOT mean anything else will be majorly affected. The entire rest of the staff will still be here -- but please avoid sending messages directly to me at "sundownz" or "jacob" e-mails as I will have very limited responses during those dates.

We inspect every single driver and there are tolerances for what passed and what does not. This driver would not fail as a B-stock -- even then most people getting our B-Stock are amazed we failed those units.

I am also working on a third set of prototypes. I am taking my time to ensure it is really the best possible value at this price

It's possible some will make it to the Yard Sale.

The X-6.5SW has shipped from our factory -- I have posted pics of it completed on Facebook. ETA is ~30 days. The X-8 first shipment came in; we shipped out as many D4 as we could that passed QC. None of the D2 passed QC. We are working with the factory to sort that out and get them back on the market / ship any D2s that were sold as soon as we can.

I have tested a few samples; but finishing some other projects first.

Should be a great addition and a very unique series in our line being fully sealed optimized

Sundown SD-3 Line : In the Works ----- Thanks to the success of the SD-2 8" model I started developing the SD-3 line; this will replace all SD-2 models in 8/10/12" sizes (there is no 15 in this series). The SD-3 motor and coil design will become under-hung like the 8" model on the bigger 10 and 12" models -- I am also further optimizing the parameters of all models for sealed enclosures... even the 8" model will be tweaked a bit more. They have the same topology as the 8" -- a 1" top plate and 1/2" long coil -- but the 10/12 design uses a 2.5" diameter coil compared to the 2" on the eight. As far as release date... by the time prototype is done and production is done probably October or so. ----- Here she is -- the first full 10" prototype : I am using an inverted surround to save front mount depth. ----- My least favorite part of verifying prototypes... cutting them down to check measurements. Also verified that the spider was, in fact, not the correct one. It was too stiff ; in the third pic you can see the spider is two layers but it should be a single layer. Based on my testing and dissection I am doing another round of prototypes. Actually two versions... one set with only some minor gap modifications (with correct single layer spider), and one set also with a wider magnet in case the spider change itself doesn't get me where I want to be. So hopefully I will have four more prototypes soon.

We have had customers running anywhere from the rated 2500 watts up to an amp rated for 6.5kw dropped to 0.5 ohm

I would NOT put the SA-8 v.2 in a sealed enclosure. The SD-2 8" is our sealed box 8"

False... there is no "we won't hire anyone" -- our staff has exploded from 4-5 guys to 15 people over the last 18 months. Several of the new staff are on the phones and e-mail full time. As the company matures we have MANY more calls and e-mails per sale due to legacy support. We are answering calls and e-mails about products sold 5-6 years ago at this point -- so total response volume grows MUCH faster than total sales volume so staff will necessarily lag a bit. As far as a "shitty response" -- I disagree -- I was never rude but I will not sit there and have someone say we absolutely are a terrible company without sharing our side of the story. Sorry, I won't do it, I am not going to stand for it. My staff works hard every day, as do I, to handle customers in the best way we possibly can. ------ As far as the actual CUSTOMER he understandably sad that his woofer is broken but he is by no means angry -- I am responding to his posts directly over on SMD and letting him know it's all being taken care of like always. I was on top of it the first I heard about an issue even on my personal family vacation. I know car audio is our hobby but we aren't selling emergency medical supplies; if we are away and unavailable for a day or two that should be understandable when we announced it a month in advance.

It will be 4-6 weeks probably right now until we can get current.

Heads up to everyone about our schedule. Most of the guys going to Slamology will be leaving on Thursday to head up there. I am leaving Friday morning. We will have a booth to show our products at Slamology; we will also be giving out signed posters with our new company model -- if you want to see you'll have to attend Slamology or wait until afterward All of the guys attending Slamology will be back to work on Tuesday *except* for me (**). Limited staff will be at the shop the entire time -- we will not fully close the shop at all but operations will be severely limited Friday and Monday around the weekend of Slamology. ** - I am actually taking a family vacation that is completely unrelated to work (weird, I know) for the remainder of the week next week with my extended family, kids, wife, etc. So this means Debbie will also be gone. Debbie and I do all of the manual credit card billing and most invoicing here so invoicing will be limited all of next week. I will remote in from my laptop and do what I can in the evenings; and the rest of the staff will do their best to keep work flowing as smoothly as possible.

The 0.9 mH figure is actually with a really thick 8-layer coil and aluminum sleeve -- we need to actually look at the RE to LE ratio 1.77 ohms to 0.97 mH (1.82 ratio) If I use our 4-layer flat coil and the aluminum sleeve the ratio is super low... meaning with the same RE of 1.77 ohms the Le would be ~0.3 mH

Had a friend of ours in the industry put these on their Amp Dyno to verify power since people have asked us about it. All SAE amps meet or exceed ratings @ 1 % THD on the Dyno. SAE-1000D v.2 : * 1 ohm Dynamic test; works out similar to clamped results SAE-600D : * Certified; when I did a "clamp" test on the prototype it worked out similarly to the SAE-1000D Dynamic burst as I clamped around 50% over the certified figures. SAE-50.4 : * Per channel * Per channel * Bridged @ 4 ohms

I know alot of folks have a hard time understanding my explanation of this all in text format; so lets visualize it based on some Klippel results. I had the first Z v.4 15" prototype Klippel tested; as explained on the image the production model will test even better since I did a hyper-extended pole compared to the standard height pole extension on the sample but I haven't had a chance to actually re-do the test -- but I have verified in FEA and via doing similar comparisons with Klippel on other drivers with the same changes what the result would be. The SA-12 is a production unit -- and most people know how an SA-12 sounds; and most people love it. It has what I would consider a good but "standard" suspension. Notice how dramatic the FS shift is even at 2" p-p travel ? Many people that own an SA tend to push them all the way to 2.25-2.5" or so p-p travel (hard bottom is 2.65" p-p) so there would be even MORE parameter shifting. Even more stand-out is the QTS shift over stroke since it is caused by both BL and CMS shifts. Anyone with a box modeling program handy can tell you what THAT much shift in Fs and Qts will do to the response (VAS also shrinks along with CMS). Now lets move onto the Z v.4 The FS shift at 2" p-p is almost non-existent by comparison. The Klippel tester ran out of steam before pushing the suspension to it's limits. Typically CMS limit is defined as a 50% shift which would be ~0.0875 mm/N on the graph; use your imagination and you can see that is around 4" p-p total travel. Onto the Qts shift -- still MUCH better than the SA-12; and on production with the BL being more symmetrical thanks to the hyper-extended pole you would see more like a range of 28-35% or so here. The reason for this not being as low as the FS shift is that I am not using a "flat BL" topology. If I were to implement something like XBL^2 this shift could be as low as the FS shift over stroke... and I do plan to offer drivers with our new platform AND flat BL at some point. ---------- So, again, anyone with box modelling software can do the experiment themselves and model up what the driver does with a large amount of parameter shift compared to a lack thereof. So hopefully that explains what you are hearing when you hear a new platform driver compared to a more traditional suspension driver. It is simply a LACK of distortion; there is nothing actually missing -- the drivers are not "missing the highs" -- they are just flat over stroke; they are only missing the *artificial* upper-bass spike created by traditional suspensions over stroke. In other words... they just aren't adding something that isn't really there. So the question you have to ask yourself is do you WANT a flat and low distortion response or not ? Be honest. Some people don't like their distortion to be that low... and in general CMS related distortion is 2nd order and sounds relatively pleasing (like tube amps). That being said... the new "SPL" cones will create a CMS curve that looks more like the SA-12 graphs; they will create the traditional sound with the upper-bass spike. When they are available order your driver accordingly to what you like :thumbsup: You can think of the new platform subs with "SPL" cones as a higher displacement version of the Z v.3 woofer -- so if you like those you would like a new platform driver with the "SPL" cone.

I made a technical post the other day on Facebook regarding some of the design philosophy of the NS v.3 -- figured I would share it over here. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=639014686154006&set=ms.639014606154014.639014626154012.639014656154009.639014686154006.bps.a.528967150492094&type=1&theater We built a set of NS v.3 12s with a smaller 8 3/8" spider pack, stock long 4-layer coil, and a Z v.3 style cone for a customer build requiring them to peak at 50+ Hz -- Fs came in at 47 hz so I am very pleased and they should be awesome. The customer asked about the raw BL figure so I did some explanation for him : Part 1 : "Little tech talk on the specs while I'm at it. As compared to a Z v.3 12" model (as they share the same cone configured this way) and also an NS v.2 12" model : Z v.3 12" : BL^2/RE = 131.8 / MMS (276g) = 0.477 SPL Factor Le = 1.12x RE for 50mm coil length (8-layer) NS v.3 12" SPL : BL^2/RE = 204 / MMS (296g) = 0.69 SPL Factor Le = 1.01x RE for 80mm coil length (4-layer) NS v.2 : BL^2/RE = 201 / MMS (346g) = 0.58 SPL Factor LE = 1.62x RE for 70mm coil length (8-layer) Given the variation in SPL factor assuming all else equal that leaves us with an advantage of 45% to NS v.3 compared to the Z v.3 which is close to 1.5dB gain for burps. Also factor in that the coil is 60% longer and the spider is also over an inch wider and you have the potential for even more output; likely 2.5+ dB in the end. Part of the design philosophy of the NS v.3 is the use of a VERY long coil for very large amounts of x-max -- but in order to keep LE and MMS down a 4-layer was used for the stock configuration. Thanks to the huge motor we can still get BL^2/RE on par with the NS v.2 but with much better MMS and LE figures." Part 2 : "Also... BL in and of itself has essentially no meaning without looking at the RE (DC resistance). So to properly analyze the spec you must consider BL^2/RE (The NS v.3 Dual-1 has a very low DCR so BL alone might look "low" compared to other higher DCR units) -- but this still isn't the entire picture so also look to their relationship to MMS to gather the "SPL Factor" And still yet... if all of that looks good and LE is too high you STILL won't have good SPL performance at higher frequencies as LE works as a 6dB low-pass crossover. With the NS v.3 we are able to get a good mix of ALL of these aspects at the same time." ---------- I am not sure alot of people have realized yet how awesome the NS v.3 Le spec is yet... it is simply on par with the RE with an 80mm long coil. That is lower than the 50mm long coil used on the Z v.3 10 and 12 models... and MUCH lower than the NS v.2 coil that was 70mm long. The cool thing about the NS v.3 is that we could use either of the other coils we compared to in this motor if we wanted to do so. I have sleeves that are perfect for the Z v.3 and NS v.2 coils -- so we aren't limited to JUST this configuration; but I chose it as stock due to it possessing such an excellent mix of Motor Force, Inductance, and Mass characteristics.

Little video of magnetizing a "Team Sundown" motor in our machine; with a little more info on what exactly we are doing.

And a video !