sundownz

I am trying to get the specs more in line for smaller boxes. I will have to verify with the updated specs on the Rev.2 samples to see how close we can get within this cost range.

Did some heavier abuse testing yesterday. Ended up breaking the solder joint from the tinsel lead wires to voice coil lead at the neck joint on one side -- but did not actually break the neck joint or thermal the coil. Had it up around 550-700 watts clamped at the point of my testing before that failure occurred. These samples have tied-on leads and actually the "floating" leads would have prevented this type of failure as it was a result of excessive forward stroke tugging the tied lead out of the hole it passed through -- and of course I was doing 550-700 free air on a 300-watt rated driver anyway so I can't say I am disappointing Either way I have some Rev.2 prototypes in the works to address the high Qts and a few other minor things I want to improve. I have been spending alot of time as well making sure I can still offer them for the $60-70 range or VERY close to it

I started talking about doing this line back in November on Facebook then on CACO. I decided to take it all the way to the prototype phase -- this is what I came up with so far. We are talking $60-70 MAP on these from a dealer ----- Here are some initial photos of the FIRST rough prototypes. I am essentially testing for ruggedness and for the soft parts and coil being what I want first. The motor will likely increase in OD a bit if I can't get Qts down with other methods but I started small to ensure we aren't wasting any costs on making it too large off the bat. Had to get a feel for what % I would be off compared to FEA to go from there. If we go to production the frame itself will have the vents removed -- for the prototypes they are plugged. The finish of the motor will also be a bit nicer but not to the point to increase cost to the end-user. The look from the front is pretty well final. The motor is alot deeper than most in this class to support some legit levels of excursion as well. 10" Model : ----- 12" Model : ---------- And finally... the video I took this morning of the 10" prototype : The 12s were separated in transit but I should have them soon. This level of excursion is not something you will find on most drivers in this category. We are looking at ~1.6-1.75" peak to peak or so in the video at the highest level (1.25" p-p is linear). There is 2" p-p before coil bottom -- I haven't gotten brave enough yet to push it past where I did in the video as we were getting a bit of mechanical noise at that level. It's still a new prototype and I'm enjoying it a bit before possibly tearing it up =) I think we are REALLY close with this sample... Qts is a bit high for what I normally like to see but I want to do some real listening tests before making a call on that one way or the other.

I have no plans to make a bigger amp than the NS-1 or anything between the 5k and the NS-1

The NS-1 v.2 is full available now, yes. The SAZ-5000D is a bit less of an extreme competition amp -- eg: it doesn't like 0.25 ohm burps on 19v in our Terra like the NS-1 does. But at normal loads and under normal circumstance is comparable to the NS-1 with less power output. It's design is similar to the SAZ-4500D (beefed up -- of course) so it's already a bit of a v.2 model.

Either you know nothing about Sundown or you have a biased opinion that is not based on product purchase. I have a lot of experience with Sundown products. Not one of their woofers would I choose for a sound quality install. Sure sundown woofers can sound good in the right install, it doesn't mean they are a SQ driver Define what you consider an SQ driver -- also; specify what part of our drivers don't fit the definition in terms of lines that address all major modes of distortion -- such as the SD-2 8" (under-hung, linear suspension, low natural Le variation) or the Z v.4 line (35mm linear magnetic travel, linear suspension, dual shorting rings). Unless your definition of SQ does not include objectively, measurably low distortion you'll find that you might be surprised.Now... I didn't set out to make the worlds top of the line SQ sub with any of our lines; that isn't our market. But you will find many of our drivers feature more distortion lowering technology than quite a few drivers considered to be "awesome" for SQ. Even our SA series has dual Faraday rings.

The SD-2 8" is one of the best in our line. In all actuality the X and Z v.4 also sound excellent and measure as such.

If there is damage from delivery that would be a SH claim issue to look into.

With the rattling something is probably broken inside.

Rev.2 Prototype is here -- not 100% where I want it but closer

Production is about to begin I will post ETA information and the pre-order once I have that.

We currently have more staff than ever answering inquiries so if you have a PROBLEM reaching us please read the above and it will help. Also read the below : Most of the time I discover with missed calls they are made outside of our hours. Lunch time seems to be the most common issue. Leave a message OR preferably send [email protected] a follow-up e-mail to return your call. Most of the time with problem e-mails I find that the customer has a spam filter or other filter blocking our replies. If sent via the "Contact Us" form I see alot of return addresses misspelled. This has happened countless times so PLEASE check your filters. E-Mail problems can happen the OTHER way around as well -- if you don't hear anything from us via e-mail for a long time CALL THE SHOP with your inquiry. This means we did not get your e-mail for some reason (spam filters, accident deletion, etc) -- it does NOT mean we are ignoring your message.

I have UPDATED this post on 11/2/13 : To ensure that contact is organized and prompt please read the following : We are open Monday through Friday. Our hours are 8 AM to 5 PM EASTERN Time -- we are CLOSED for lunch at approximately 12-1:00 every day; lunch time frame care vary +/- 30 minutes depending on what is going on that day. DO NOT post on Facebook or the Forums to request order status, warranty information, or pricing. It is VERY difficult to know who you are or what you ordered this way. Forums and Facebook are designed to share new product information, customer installs, updates, etc and are not optimal for the aforementioned things. On our OFFICIAL Facebook and forum names we DO NOT use any form of PMs -- these are too easily over-looked. MAKE SURE you provide your REAL NAME and a SUBJECT LINE in the e-mail -- if you are asking about an order make sure to tell us the name and e-mail on the Paypal payment as they very often do not match. For order status and tracking : [email protected] For basic pricing (including stock drop-ins) : [email protected] For odd-ball stuff (custom re-cones / parts) : [email protected] (be patient, my box gets bombarded - I may forward messages to other staff if they can answer) For dealer inquiries : http://www.sundownaudio.com/index.php/dealer-inquiry.html If you have a question about the form : [email protected] For warranty : http://www.sundownaudio.com/index.php/return-authorization-form.html For general information / tech questions : http://www.sundownaudio.com/index.php/contact.html or [email protected] For Team Sundown Inquiries : [email protected] If you cannot reach us electronically or are having an issue with the electronic methods you can call. It is preferred to use electronic contact so there is a written record for future reference. If you do call; DO NOT call us 100 times in a row if you don't get an answer the first time -- leave a message and/or wait 10-15 minutes and try again. Someone is not beside the phone 100% of the time but someone is there most of the time. We do not have an entire call center so be patient; if everyone is already ON the phone we can't answer. Again -- it is preferable to use the above electronic contact before calling. Calling opens up significant room for errors and leaves no record of the conversation. ALSO remember our hours; if you call when we aren't there we cannot answer... please leave a message !!! 828-459-1980

Revised prototype is on the way -- suspension is a little stiffer (ported F3 is nearly identical) with re-enforced glue joint and a few other modifications as well. I will post up testing on it when it's here

This is a direct replacement for our old SAX-100.4 model as it is a Class-A/B model amplifier. It is much more compact than the old SAX-100.4 but not nearly as compact as the SAX-125.4 model. We have had a great deal of demand for this unit as it is significantly less expensive than the SAX-125.4 model and is perfect for those that don't need such a small foot-print or a 19v stable amp (these are stable up to ~16v). They are available NOW for $400 from any authorized dealer in the USA. -----

This is our second full-range Class-D / 19v stable multi-channel to hit the market after the SAX-125.4 model. It is a VERY compact unit designed to fit just about anywhere. They are available NOW for $400 from any authorized dealer in the USA. ----------

I have REDUCED the cost on our tooled 10/12/15 frames now that we have sold enough complete drivers to pay for a significant part of the tooling charges. They ARE available stand-alone at the same prices (+SH) as you see listed above for DIY projects. You would also contact [email protected] to order them -- you would likely also want our vented frame spacer to go with them. Some other cones will work on our 12 and 15 frames but ONLY our 10" cones work on our 10" frames. Keep that in mind if you are doing a DIY project.

To order a re-cone e-mail [email [email protected]][email protected] -- do not e-mail my "sundownz" address if you need a quick response.To reduce back-and-forth e-mails ALWAYS include the following : 1) What you are ordering -- Model, Coil Configuration, Etc. 2) If you already have a basket or not; please check below for any special notes. 3) If you need ANY custom options please specify up front. 4) !!! YOUR ADDRESS AND NAME !!! 5) A picture of what you have goes a long way to be SURE we are talking about the same thing. IT WILL TAKE, ON AVERAGE, 10-14 days for a built item like a drop-in to be completed. It may take longer depending on how busy our build department is -- please keep this in mind. Updates will NOT be sent along the way -- an update will occur when the product is shipped. You can e-mail us to check on the status. ---------- EDIT 8/30/11 : WE CANNOT WARRANTY DIY RE-CONE ASSEMBLY ISSUES. Read and understand this -- if you are not 110% sure about re-coning the driver ask us or send it in. We can ONLY stand behind labor that we perform. Manufacturing defects in the kit itself are of course our responsibility but installation is 100% the customer responsibility. This includes ticking, broken parts, etc. EDIT 10/14/13 : MAKE SURE to check your re-cone BEFORE installing it for complete accuracy. This includes using a DMM to make sure you received the correct voice coil configuration. As this is a DIY process everyone performing a drop-in should have access to a multi-meter. If there is a mistake on the kit we need to know BEFORE you glue it all in place!!!Once the kit is glued into place we will not be be liable for any errors in it's construction. CHECK IT OVER FIRST. If it is not correct we will issue a call tag for it and build you the correct kit for you ASAP. Also... any CHANGES to a drop-in order must be done in the form of a new order. We will no longer CHANGE an existing drop-in order without refunding the original payment and creating an entirely new order so that ALL of your details are IN WRITING on the payment slip from Paypal. There will be absolutely NO changes to drop-in orders on the phone!!! Changing existing orders and making any adjustments on the phone open up too many possibilities for errors. ---------- This thread over-rides any prior quotes or costs. These prices are the same for everyone; Team, dealer, customer, etc. All costs + SH charges. ---------- KITS DO NOT include shims or glue. White paper trimmed / stacked to spec works perfectly for shimming -- use enough where it is snug but not so tight you can barely get the coil in the gap. For glue we suggest Loc-Tite 5-minute epoxy with mixing tubes to glue the spider to the frame (MAKE SURE to sand it first) and we suggest Amazing Goop or E6000 for the surround and dust cap (sand frame for surround and rough up the glue surface of the dust cap with sand paper as well). These can be purchased from Lowes or Home Depot very commonly and some Wal-Mart and Craft Stores. We can sell CA glue by request but it typically is not very cost effective for the end user. ---------- MODEL -- RE-CONE Price -- FRAME Price E8 v.2 (or v.1) -- $28.00 -- $5.00 * D2 / D4 available Stock * MUST buy basket to re-cone a v.1 model E8 v.3 -- $30.00 -- $5.00 * D2 / D4 Available E-10 -- $35 -- $10 E-12 -- $35 -- $10 E-15 -- $45 -- $10 * D2 / D4 Available !!!FOR SA-8 KITS SEE THIS THREAD TO DETERMINE WHAT MODEL YOU HAVE. WE MUST HAVE THIS INFO TO MAKE THE CORRECT KIT!!! SA-8 v.1 or v1.5 -- $32.00 -- $10.00 * MUST SPECIFY v.1 or v1.5 when ordering !!! * D2 / D4 available Stock * CCAW 4-layer D2 or D4 SPL Coils Available No Extra Charge (these are lighter but can still be used daily as the gap is not tighter than stock) * These kits now ship standard with a round lead wire that is more rugged SA-8 v.2 -- $50.00 -- $15.00 * D2 / D4 available Stock * SA-8 v.2 Kits Available with SPL 8-layer D1 Coil for $20.00 Extra (Very tight gap and may tick slightly at high excursion) * CCAW 4-layer D2 or D4 SPL Coils Available No Extra Charge (these are lighter but can still be used daily as the gap is not tighter than stock) * Extra Spiders Available for $5.00 Extra Each for a MAX of FIVE (stock is two); DO NOT order extra spiders for anything but SPL SD-2 8 -- $40.00 -- $15.00 * D4 Coils ONLY SD-2 10 -- $35.00 -- $15.00 SD-2 12 -- $35.00 -- $18.00 * D2 / D4 available SA-10 -- $40.00 -- $15.00 SA-12 -- $40.00 -- $18.00 SA-15 -- $50.00 -- $21.00 * SA-10/12/15 add $20.00 for SPL Coils (D1,D2,D4) * D2 / D4 available in stock copper NSv1 12 -- $100.00 -- $25.00 NSv1 15 -- $110.00 -- $30.00 NSv1 18 -- $120.00 -- $40.00 * 3H Nightshade Spiders Stock * Add $10.00 for double leads * Z v.3 Spider Available No Extra Charge * NS v.3 Spider Pack Add $10 * D1 / D2 Available NSv2 12 -- $130.00 -- $25.00 NSv2 15 -- $140.00 -- $30.00 NSv2 18 -- $150.00 -- $40.00 * 3H Nightshade Spiders Stock * Add $10.00 for double leads * Z v.3 Spider Available No Extra Charge * NS v.3 Spider Pack Add $10 * D1 / D2 Available (SPL COIL Available) Zv2 12 -- $100.00 -- $25.00 Zv2 15 -- $110.00 -- $30.00 Zv2 18 -- $120.00 -- $40.00 * Copper or Aluminum Coils Available * Z v.3 Spider Pack Now Standard (5/1/12) * MUST USE Z v.3 SPACER * Add $10 for NS v.3 Spider Pack * D1 / D2 Available Z v.3 10" -- $115.00 -- $20.00 Z v.3 12" -- $115.00 -- $25.00 Z v.3 15" -- $125.00 -- $30.00 Z v.3 18" -- $135.00 -- $40.00 * D1 / D2 Available (SPL COIL Available) * Add $10 for NS v.3 Spider Pack or "Traditional" 3H NS Pack * The 10/12 models use a different coil than the 15/18 models * The SPL coil can ONLY be used on the 10/12 with the "Traditional" 3H NS Pack !!!! IMPORTANT NOTE : YOU MUST USE OUR NEWEST 12-spoke 15" FRAMES TO USE THE Z v.3 OR NS v.3 SPIDER PACKS !!!! They are 8 3/8" spiders and require a modified top landing. The other spiders for 10/12 and the 18 are compatible with any 12-spoke / 6-spoke that I am aware of. Also -- the NS cone will NOT be offered on ANY drivers with a v.3 style spider pack in 15s or 18s. The v.3 spiders (Z v.3 and NS v.3) can exceed the mechanical limits of the NS style cones in these sizes. ----------- NEW PLATFORM PRODUCTS : MODEL -- RE-CONE Price -- FRAME Price X-10 -- $130.00 -- $50.00 X-12 -- $135.00 -- $60.00 X-15 -- $140.00 -- $80.00 X-18 -- $155.00 -- $50.00 * 18" Use the Standard 6-Spoke Frame w/ a 257mm Spider Adapter; the $50 frame price includes this adapter * D2 and D4 Coils Available (CCAW Round Wire) * Add $10.00 for Z v.4 Stiffness Spider * Add $20.00 for NS v.3 Stiffness Spider Z v.4 10 -- $150.00 -- $50.00 Z v.4 12 -- $155.00 -- $60.00 Z v.4 15 -- $160.00 -- $80.00 Z v.4 18 -- $175.00 -- $50.00 * 18" Use the Standard 6-Spoke Frame w/ a 257mm Spider Adapter; the $50 frame price includes this adapter * D1 and D2 Coils Available * Softer X Spider Available - NO EXTRA CHARGE * Add $10.00 for NS v.3 Stiffness Spider NS v.3 10 -- TBA NS v.3 12 -- TBA NS v.3 15 -- TBA NS v.3 18 -- TBA * -- Both the X and Z v.4 kits / Frames can be retrofit into the NS v.1, NS v.2, and Z v.3 motors; these motors cannot handle the FULL capacity of the new soft parts so a hard bottom is possible. ** -- SPL kits are in development with a different cone and spider type. Pricing is TBA on those. *** -- The Z v.2 motor bolt pattern is compatible with the new platforms as well but we do not suggest it as it has a limited amount of rearward travel (41mm). * The new baskets are BOLT PATTERN compatible with any of our 3" coil motors to-date. They use the standard 127mm pattern so can be used on MANY other products.

At lower power the Yellow spiders were about 2.5dB louder than the stock black ones; but at high power only 0.1-0.2 dB louder. So this means we need to look elsewhere to make gains -- such as stronger motors, tweaking the cabin and box, etc. Very cool information to have on hand, though, in case anyone is doing a lower clamped power class with a similar big 4th order

We did some testing last night one vs. one woofer... stock Z v.3 compared to Z v.3 with ONE extra spider (Yellow spider pack). One on one it made a very substantial gain. Have to build a mate for it to try two subs (coming soon) So we will also be making a set with TWO extra spiders (Red NS v.3 spider pack) compared to stock to see if it keeps going or tapers off.

Since we showed it out in the wild now here are the pics : * Vehicle is a SEAT Terra * Probably the funniest looking vehicle ever made. * Two NS-1 amps * Closer view. There are 32x D1600 XS Power batteries up top. * Trophies from the weekend; 165.4 in IASCA and 165.8 in dB Drag SS 1-2 * Right now we have two layers of Audio Technix 80-Mil on the roof with a Sundown Logo "head liner" on top of it. * Two completely stock Z v.3 18s in small boxes. We whipped these up quick to do initial testing -- we'll be making better chambers and better attachment methods for them soon. * Through the port... more port testing will be forthcoming as well.

From the other night -- left number is dash and right number is kick panel. It's our new SPL project... so far we haven't officially stated what is in it so if you know (shhhhhhhhh) -- but we'll have it at a show soon then, of course, have all the info out there! It's mainly a burp vehicle and the absolute peak is 60 Hz but we have done pretty good numbers in the 40s range as well -- haven't really played lower than that as of yet. We did have it up to a 165.4 as well with a few tweaks.

Small update from our machine shop -- we had to go aluminum rather than copper for the low inductance pole sleeve. It was going to run-over the budget by around $100 per driver (ouch!). So that was out. Good news is I have also tested aluminum sleeves and they work very well too

It will vary based on the coil -- the "official" rating for the stock setup is 2500 RMS.

The new NS v.3 woofers will have a HUGE number of options. 1) The motor supports two sleeves to configure it's gap size / overall performance. • POLE SLEEVES (these are permanent; only selected when built) : * Copper sleeve – for low inductance / low distortion * Steel sleeve – for higher BL / higher SPL – STOCK SETUP • OUTER GAP SLEEVE (these can be swapped when re-coning the driver) : * 83mm OD – Z v.2 style coils; lowers mass / lowest inductance – for high frequency burps. My next round of Z v.2 coils will have a longer former for use on the new platforms. * 85.2mm OD – Standard coil; VERY long 4-layer flat coil – maximum linear travel / good mix of SPL and day-to-day performance – STOCK SETUP * 86.5mm OD – Equal to NS v.2, Z v.3, Z v.4 Gap – we can use any of those coils or any other 8-layer coil desired. * 92.5mm OD (NO SLEEVE) – I will be carrying a VERY thick coil for maximum BL for this gap… higher inductance and mass so best for low frequency output. I’ll have these in later this year. 2) We will be able to use any spider stiffness level on them… X, Z v.4, or NS v.3 grade stiffness. They are 4, 5, and 6 layers respectively. These are “pack” spiders that come all glued together. We could also vary what diameter spider is used for specialized applications (not common). * I will also have an “SPL Spider” Pack coming out… we can stack them from 1 to 6 layers thick; each one is harder per layer than the packs. * The SPL spiders do not have as flat of a stiffness curve as the packs; so they are superior for SPL applications. * The SPL spiders will come out towards the end of the year. 3) We can also use a Z v.3 style cone on the 12/15/18 models for lower mass if the customer chooses to use one of the shorter coils for SPL. The 10” model will NOT support a v.3 style cone as it's size is not standard. We would combine this with a smaller diameter spider pack to agree with the surround limites. This is a bit of a "budget" SPL cone setup that we can do. 4) I am tooling up a carbon fiber / fiberglass / honeycomb Nomex composite SPL cone (paired with a dust cap of the same material) in 10/12/15/18 sizes. This cone is lighter and stronger than paper – it also features a surround size in between the Z v.3 and v.4 sizing – it is best paired with the new SPL spider packs in their biggest diameter for a given cone size. Due to the reduced cone and surround mass the FS (resonance) of the woofer is increased to perform better for SPL burps. I expect these around the end of the year to early next year if all testing goes well. ----- With all that being said... I will have to work up some sort of spread-sheet for the pricing on these with options. ----- Okay so the MAP will be as follows for stock setup units : 10 - $820 12 - $840 15 - $875 18 - $900 Gap OD sleeves will be available for purchase to change the woofer later on down the line. As mentioned the ID sleeves are permanent so a motor will always be "Low Le" or "High BL" once setup that way. Both sleeves are machined locally in the US and are pretty expensive to make. They do represent a decent chunk of the costs -- but we wanted to have the ultimate flexibility with configuring the NS v.3 so it will continue to be a viable motor for MANY years to come... we could even develop different OD sleeves for it later on down the line