visitor

I think thats probably the SAME thing the guy you got it from did

Please dont. After they stole a design of mine to use themselves, tried to lie their way out of it I called it quits. Also- from an actual product standpoint- Look at the spider set up. its one spider, dipped in resin. these start to sag VERY quickly. ask terra how the line of subs he had built for him are working out they are a bunch of lying thieves who "build speakers" from a shed in there backyard. Im asking you honestly- PLEASE look elsewhere. Can you explain in any more detail on what they stole? Curious as I thought they looked like a quality built product. Long story short- I went to pap with a design I wanted built, gave them the specs, etc. They were very nice to me. I ran into some family issues making me unable to proceed with it. Terra (owner of cascade audio, and a friend) then approached me asking if I could use the design, I agreed, but by then it was to late... PAP already had taken the design (down to the "t", as i believe the expression goes) and started production on it as "the new WMD!"". Now, it isnt the greatest design, or even anything super special, really, however, it is beyond low class to steal a design. simple as that. And then you have another poster claim they stole pics/powder coating from him.. it just gets longer! Why would ANYONE buy from them?? (to the op- I am NOT attacking you. I sincerely hope this woofer is what you are looking for, and treats you well, leaves you satisfied!) Also- these come from Terra, and you certianly don't have to believe me on them, but here is some of the issues with his line of speakers (built by pap) 1. He offered 2 choices of colors for frames- purple and green, iirc. "somehow" other pap customers seemed to be getting these colored frames, even though there was an agreement between pap and cascade that would not be happening. 2. Dust Caps folding. PAP used cheap thin cardboard caps on the omega's.. A high percentage of them have creased the caps, or even blown them completely off. 3. Aforementioned spider sag. 4. breach of confidentiality. PAP posted pics of them building the omega's. This was a problem as (and I think most build houses do or have this) there was an agreement that pap would of course NOT post who they built for, or what lines they built for them. In case that brand owner/representative did not want this disclosed. (I'm pretty sure Terra didn't..) 5. parts availability- PAP wanted blown omega's sent to them to be reconed vs. selling Terra the recones. now, this seems like less of a headache for Terra, but see above about confidentiality.. Notice how cascades never get reconed by Terra.. ya.. there is a reason. no parts. I'm sure there is more, but I either do not know it, or cannot think of it ATM. Again-OP best of luck, i really mean that. I hope its a great sub, it sure looks pretty. Also- this is just a random thought- that WMD they sell for 700 bucks (or whatever it was) was to be sold to me at around 325 each (and even at that level they make a nice profit I'm sure!) Quite a markup! Lord Baccus for a spokesman really doesnt help either... unless you are marketing to the inbred hillbilly crowd:p dang , sorry visitor, like i said, this probably boils down to the one fact that i can offer you for comfort, i am not buying it from them, so there for no sale for them, no profit! i will not leave your story untold, but i really am hoping that the sub does well for me! even at $200 bucks i have high hopes for it. you mentioned that it was your design "down to a t" , and you had said that it had the " spider sag".... i have no idea what that ruly means but, is this something that failed in your design? do you know of a fix for it? how does this effect a sub? i see folks rebuilding subs alot, could someone rebuild this one if needed? just curious. thanks chop sure man, I hope it does awesome for ya! I wasnt referring to just my design having a spider sag, as all paps seem to exibit this trait after time. Sure it could be reconed, (rebuilt as you said) but I wouldnt until it failed! save your cash for the moment! Im very sure fi could hook you up with a recone in the event that your breaks (again, I hope that doesnt happen!) I know there are others out there as well offering recone service! (and of course, pap can recone it if it fails, if you are inclined to go that way!)

Please dont. After they stole a design of mine to use themselves, tried to lie their way out of it I called it quits. Also- from an actual product standpoint- Look at the spider set up. its one spider, dipped in resin. these start to sag VERY quickly. ask terra how the line of subs he had built for him are working out they are a bunch of lying thieves who "build speakers" from a shed in there backyard. Im asking you honestly- PLEASE look elsewhere. Can you explain in any more detail on what they stole? Curious as I thought they looked like a quality built product. Long story short- I went to pap with a design I wanted built, gave them the specs, etc. They were very nice to me. I ran into some family issues making me unable to proceed with it. Terra (owner of cascade audio, and a friend) then approached me asking if I could use the design, I agreed, but by then it was to late... PAP already had taken the design (down to the "t", as i believe the expression goes) and started production on it as "the new WMD!"". Now, it isnt the greatest design, or even anything super special, really, however, it is beyond low class to steal a design. simple as that. And then you have another poster claim they stole pics/powder coating from him.. it just gets longer! Why would ANYONE buy from them?? (to the op- I am NOT attacking you. I sincerely hope this woofer is what you are looking for, and treats you well, leaves you satisfied!) Also- these come from Terra, and you certianly don't have to believe me on them, but here is some of the issues with his line of speakers (built by pap) 1. He offered 2 choices of colors for frames- purple and green, iirc. "somehow" other pap customers seemed to be getting these colored frames, even though there was an agreement between pap and cascade that would not be happening. 2. Dust Caps folding. PAP used cheap thin cardboard caps on the omega's.. A high percentage of them have creased the caps, or even blown them completely off. 3. Aforementioned spider sag. 4. breach of confidentiality. PAP posted pics of them building the omega's. This was a problem as (and I think most build houses do or have this) there was an agreement that pap would of course NOT post who they built for, or what lines they built for them. In case that brand owner/representative did not want this disclosed. (I'm pretty sure Terra didn't..) 5. parts availability- PAP wanted blown omega's sent to them to be reconed vs. selling Terra the recones. now, this seems like less of a headache for Terra, but see above about confidentiality.. Notice how cascades never get reconed by Terra.. ya.. there is a reason. no parts. I'm sure there is more, but I either do not know it, or cannot think of it ATM. Again-OP best of luck, i really mean that. I hope its a great sub, it sure looks pretty. Also- this is just a random thought- that WMD they sell for 700 bucks (or whatever it was) was to be sold to me at around 325 each (and even at that level they make a nice profit I'm sure!) Quite a markup! Lord Baccus for a spokesman really doesnt help either... unless you are marketing to the inbred hillbilly crowd:p

Please dont. After they stole a design of mine to use themselves, tried to lie their way out of it I called it quits. Also- from an actual product standpoint- Look at the spider set up. its one spider, dipped in resin. these start to sag VERY quickly. ask terra how the line of subs he had built for him are working out they are a bunch of lying thieves who "build speakers" from a shed in there backyard. Im asking you honestly- PLEASE look elsewhere.

I would question the economics of reconing a woofer with such a low initial cost. a recone would run VERY close to the cost of a new woofer!

His is? really? AWESOME!!! Does he also "do work on fools"?

Ed- are you ed lester? there seems to be an issue over at ca.com as to whether or not you are the REAL ed lester.. can you elaborate on that please?

And without the 15 and 18" ti basket (really there main "edge" in the market for a while. i wouldnt hold my breath tbh. lms was always a neat tech though:)

very good post. all true. i wish people wouldnt use em, but what can you do:(

That's REDICULOUS THANK YOU. so sick of seeing all these idiots using 8,10,12k, etc. and thinking its worth a chit. no, they aren't. and i can prove it, without even seeing them. guaranteed.

As said over on ca.com.. are you sure it doesnt say "born in america"? could be (and likely is) a VASTLY different situation

so you are gonna ruin this one too? sad

so is 2. and fwiw- many of us here can get louder out of a trunk, than you can out of a wall. I would not let that deter you from buying a car you like. as stated above- pap can help you out, if you MUST have custom built off the wall question- you that kid that got ran off the smd forums?

Cake? with icing?? i hope so

Cake?

Mark does this hold true? i need a few if possible?

well, thats.. industrious!

Do you speak as poorly as you type?

Any one who would make fun of your build (no matter how big or small) is a small person. as far as the logos.. can you wipe em off? or are they etched in? never looked not sure if they are etched in either. Then I will start my buildlog. truth is its been going on for a while but ill start posting in a while. ... and if any one say something ill let you deal with them hehe post it up! nothing to deal with. this forum is pretty mature:)

Any one who would make fun of your build (no matter how big or small) is a small person. as far as the logos.. can you wipe em off? or are they etched in? never looked

Truth. The only way it would happen is if say moisture got to it, and corroded internals.. not really that likely, but i do see it from time to time.

Your posts are VERY hard to understand, IMO:( As i see your original question was answered, but one issue that does need to be addressed (and its certainly not just you saying, or implying this) is Chinese=inferior to American. this is CRAP. complete, utter crap. There are great build houses both Chinese and American,and likewise there are crap build houses Chinese and American. being from a certain country does NOT make a driver inherently inferior. and also- from my understanding, the aluminum coiled hdc's soft parts are USA made, so if you are really that hung up on it... there ya go.

Can i ask what you are building out of them?

Set sail for fail?

Never your fault, is it?