shizzzon

if u wait til april or may, you can hear mine.

nope, I was gonna tune at 33 but ports too long. I'm going to be using 4 4" diameter ports and required length at 35hz is 29" long per port! I only have like 20" total internal depth but i am still tinkering in AutoCAD to see what i can come up with. The box size is 3.5cubes NET. Just checked, goin down to 30 would increase em another 11" per so that's a no go. I can try to increase internal volume to allow a partial drop in length but it's still not enough to fit, even at 35 without some more tinkering.

you know man, i understand what the difference between the two is now since you say that from experience with other subs lacking in low end... But for my install, i will be facing sub AND port forward in the car. I know that loses a ton of low end right there. Do you think i still have a chance of having the Q reproduce that low end still tuned at 35hz or should i just stay with the BLs? I am fully aware of the loss i will have with facing everything forward but i have had an install like this before so i know what's lacking. I am also aware when i had an install like that, that 40-52hz was breath taking, i liked that a lot. Mainly what i mean by experience is, it kinda sounds like a sealed box in a small enclosure trying to play low bass. As long as I can audibly hear "some" low bass response out of the BLs in the low end range facing forward then i'm alright. I already knew what to expect when facing forward so the ultra lows are not a goal, just equivalent to what a small sealed box sounds when it tries to play them. so whatcha thinka? The BL win in this scenario?

ok, here it is, the secret of impedance rise, hehe- You will need an Ammeter which you have and a DMM(Digital Multimeter) You can only measure impedance rise on single test tones. IF you try to do it when playing music, the resistance will change repeatedly before the test tools retrieve the present info. So one tone at a time. Also take note that if you need to test a lot of tones, allow the subs to cool down or else resistance will be higher than normal. Take the DMM and put it's probes on the speaker output terminal. Take the ammeter and clamp it around the positive wire ONLY. Burp a test tone long enough for you to get readings. At a split second, visually record your voltage and current output from the amp. Make sure that they stay steady instead of changing erratically. Write these numbers down before you forget. Let's say you got 63.2V and 46.1A All you do now is divide the amps INTO the voltage. The answer in this example is - 1.37 ohms That is what rise is, amps divided into voltage and can be found only by measuring the output from the amp(s) itself. Now since you know... and everyone else who read this, start doing your tests. You will start to gain some knowledge about how things work in your install environment for comp reference if you are going that route.

You will see it when you remove the tape from the box and open the box up. There are multiple ways of doing this- You can get a knife, any small blade will work and use the "cutting side" of the knife to cut the tape that is holding the box shut. Just gently run it across the underside of the tape at the ends of the box. A safer way is just to use your finger to pull the tape back at the ends of the box and rip the tape off. Regardless of how you open it up, it will not void the warranty unless you burn the coils up during opening the box or the spider gets ripped off because you thought the sub was inside the BL... Anyway, good luck with seeing the sub and post a vid of UPS delivering it because i havent seen any in a while!!

Well, then i have questions... On the 10" BL, since it's Fs is rated over 40hz AFTER it has loosened up, why would Fi suggest tuning as low as 30hz? I want to tune 3 of these 10s to 35hz but still like it to drop down to 30hz, and of course be able to reproduce that sound. I am just leary that it won't. I know Fs does or may have to do with SQ as well, but sq comes into play when i want it playable. I need loud but i need my lows as well.

if u got about 6cubes of NET space available, go with 2 12s if you got at least 4K of power. 2 12s would be louder than 1 15.

Are these parameters taken on the subs when they are freshly new or taken when the suspension has loosened up? And I am referring to Fi subs.

i honestly do not know anything about IA's amps but i do know that those sundown's are very efficient! If you are worried about that, the sundown's are a great choice. ~90% @ 2ohms is awesome. According to the tests that are pinned in the Sundown Audio forum, power draw should be as follows - @ 1.33 ohms - approx 320-355A at 10.75-12.0v @ 2 ohms - approx 240-265A at 10.75-12.0v Those are like worse case scenarios. As long as you got the proper capacity of batts and alt, you shouldn't dip that low while driving. Power output may increase some if you can sustain high 13's but am uncertain.

for thermal handling, the Orion would be because it has a larger coil. Also, if you do decide on going with the orion, pay close attention to the manual's recommendations. You are suggested to mount the sub facing straight up or down, do not have it facing towards the front or the rear. From the specs though, it sounds like an interesting driver. It has a pretty low EBP value. Only required to be put in 3.5cubes ported, ultra low Fs, over 1" xmax, 4" coil, very heavy sub and has more radiating area than a BTL of the same size... But is it better? Who knows... To me, it sounds like the HCCA is trying to remain "clear" while being loud at the same time. IT can't go below 24hz and supposedly it's 5db less efficient than a BTL if measured the same. The BTL's are meant to be in ported boxes to get every last bit out of them to be hella loud, that's not how the HCCAs are though... Although, the HCCA's have other specs that excel over the BTL so i can't really guess because they both have great specs. I just think the Orion is more geared toward keeping the quality a little smoother whereas the BTL is geared toward... WHAT? u get the picture

if you do that then the alt will not be able to properly charge all the batts to 100% if that's the only alt in the vehicle.

Well, they stole over $2k from me. I had to get the insurance to approve this new install i'm doing so anything that gets damaged i dont have to worry about it. I'm in the PRP area but yea, I used to know someone who lived in Iroquois and i hated goin over there because it seems everybody in that area is just waitin to get in trouble somehow.

Well, kinda When he did tests at 0.7 ohms DCR or higher, that's safe. I've never messed with 0.6 DCR so can't comment on that, but i do know that 0.5 and lower DCR, is hella risky for daily. All it takes is for a very brief period where the rise falls below 1ohm, that's bad. I went back over his tests. He never did 0.7 dcr unless i missed it. He did do 0.6 which rose to 1.33 giving more than 3,200w. In my experience though with different enclosures, this one enclosure i had did not fall down that low in resistance until after 50hz. It was tuned to 29hz. After 50hz, it would draw this monstrous amount of current and would not be that loud at all. 6.5" midbass drivers could have been louder than what i was hearing when put in proper enclosures. The majority of the frequency range that was loud, 30-45hz, resistance stayed above 2.3ohms and where it peaked at was above 4ohms. It can be dangerous if you are unaware of the draw if you have an awesome electrical system. Reason being is, again in this instance with this enclosure i had, when it drew this monstrous amount of current, the sub wasn't even hardly moving. It had no way of cooling itself down as good compared to other frequencies. It was just being fed this power and practically just sitting there. Yea, johnecon2001, i overlooked the 1.33 reading on the 3000d. However even though i see it now, that rise "may", not guaranteed, only happen in the upper playable range where it probably needs to be x-overed at anyway. anything around or just after tuning should be very high.

man im was thinkin the BL could hold more above 1500 watts damn. but hey where u at in the ville. hang out sometime. and we can check each other system out and then ill steal urs lol j/k im at the Iroquois area Be careful what you say. I just had part of a setup stole from me 2 months ago. Have no idea who did it and it was across the street from the police station! I am still eager to meet the person who did it. Not saying you did but be careful because if i find out who did it, they goin to jail. And if they dont.... i will. The BLs can take power up to but no more than 2K but is not suggested unless you know exactly what to look for when building the enclosure and setting up amp(s).

i dont think there is just a one answer end all. Get some metal flex conduit and run it under your vehicle Run each run of 0 gauge through it. If you need to run more due to voltage drop, you know you can run more wire like crazy since running under is a lot easier than in the vehicle.

it's easily possible that you had your sub in a ported box with high group delay. Clipping sent to that type of install would be hard to hear.

Ok, this is why people get confused - Now, i've been told to always use approx 16sqin of port per cubic ft. Sometimes 14 or maybe even 12sqin per cube. When reading the manual for this sub, it says in 2cubes ported, all you gotta use is 1 4" diameter port!?!? But with 2,500w of continuous thermal handling, port turbulence is probably enough to shoot the box out of the car, hehe. Why would Pioneer suggest that? I do not understand.

you gotta get that cd player secured. IF it's screwed\bolted down properly then put some rubber washers around the mounting holes to see if that helps. Does the cd player rest on anything other than the screws\bolts that hold it in?

noticed you in my city, phi. Now get OUT! just playin, haha. I hope you know what you are doing because a lot of those amps may require attention to the mechanical and\or thermal limits of 1 BL. And for whatever you do, don't get the XXV-Thor if being used for daily, get a BTL with that much power. Try and find you an amp rated between 1500-1800w. IF you do do with a 2kw amp, you may need to slightly attenuate it's output potential if the sub starts to heat up frequently.

but in a stable environment, you're not gonna get that much power in a daily setup. And that amp will never see a 1ohm load either during play unless it's wired in a "risky" installation. When i look for amps, of course i have to make sure it can safely handle the subs that will be wired to it. 1 D2 sub wired in parallel, need a 1ohm stable amp. 2 ohm ratings and higher are more relevant than 1 ohm. 0.7DCR to rise to 1ohm even would be so hard, i do not even know if that's possible, or at least in a ported enclosure. Typically, when i've tested setups, i see impedance rise at it's lowest point around double that of DCR on average. 0.9 rise to 1.7 at it's lowest point. Average anywhere from 2.2 - 6.x When you are going to be using an amp to push a sub's thermal limits, gotta know what it can do at the right resistance levels or one should step down the power altogether.

is the orion the only thing wired to the remote lead? Also, is the orion the only thing that has ever been wired to the remote lead?

This Pioneer Premier TS-W5102SPL, http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Pro...-W5102SPL?tab=B anyone ever seen these in action or know their potential personally? It's specs are questionable which makes me wonder how loud they can get. I know they were used in the comp vehicle which did over 180db but that means nothing to me. They could have done that with any other high powered sub i'm sure. Anyways, it says rated at 2,500wrms\6000w peak, only required to be in a 2.0 cuft ported enclosure but only 11.5mm xmax... I'm looking for loud daily but do not know if this is in the right category for my needs.

you buy the sundown from this website. The Lanzar 6000D, type that in yahoo.com and search. there is a company selling it for $999+shipping somewhere, i've seen it. The Lanzar 2000Ds can be found on ebay or other places for about $338 per amp+shipping. Both Lanzar amps are the Optidrive line so they will be called Opti-6000D and Opti-2000D The sundown is SAZ-3000D. Email this website or email Sundown them self at www.sundownaudio.com to request a current price because you might be able to get it cheaper than 1099. Power ratings as i know them from memory- i do not know voltage drop off the top of my head but when i research wattage output, i'm only interested in voltage readings from 10.5-13.8v so keep that in mind. The following are rough and close approximations of real testing. Sundown 3000d - 2,500w at 2ohms 3,200w at 1ohms Lanzar 2000D strapped - 3,900w @ 1ohm 3,200w @ 2ohm 2,200 @ 4ohm Those tests were done on 13.8v. Lanzar 6000D - following test done on 12.6v 1,600w @4ohm 2,700w @2ohm 3,600w @1ohm following test done on 14.4v 2,100w @4ohm 3,600w @2ohm 4,800w @1ohm All of these amps are stable to run a dual 2ohm BTL wired in parallel. Note - If you like the Lanzar Opti-6000D's power ratings, that's why i mentioned above may need power attentuation. Look at the 12.6v rating - even @4ohm is 1,600w of power. That's almost a full 6x increase in impedance rise and with a crappy electrical system (which is worse case scenario), that amp can murder a BTL if not attenuated. The strapped 2000ds are not any better because the 4ohm level is actually higher than the 6000d and still as powerful at 2ohm as the 6000d. The sundown gives you a safety for a BTL install. I do not know it's 4ohm rating but 2,500w at 2ohm is close to max output what you'll get from music off of a dual 1.5 in parallel. If you get lower than 2ohms after rise on straight bass, be careful with the sundown too.

Here is a list of amps I'd recommend using and approx price, if I know it by heart, u can get them for that can get max potential, in my opinion, out of a single BTL- Sundown SAZ-3000D 1099 Lanzar 6000D 1049 may need slight power attenuation. Strapped Lanzar 2000ds (1ohm strapped stable daily) 768 if u need more options, let me know

Let me tell u what I have been told since u wanna use a 4kw amp. The btls use a 3" coil so constant power of over 1500w should not be done. Examples for a 4kw amp- Its most likely spec'd as- 2k @4ohm 3k @2ohm 4k @1ohm Wired at 0.7, even with a rise 6x DCR, it would still be overpowering it for long periods of time IF YOU WERE PLAYING TRACKS WITH NON STOP BASS such as test tones or some lil jon songs. If u plan on doing that, do for very short periods or u will start to heat it up too much. You can actually run as much as 3,000w of power, REAL POWER, but only if the audio tracks contain non continuous bass lines. At 3,000w however, caution needs to be taken so monitor heat buildup for a few weeks to determine if your setup is proper. 4k,in my opinion, shoul be the most powerful amp for a single btl for daily, though I would rather see a 3,500w amp instead for recomendation. Hope this helps everyone.