I mention that from time to time, and some people just don't know or remember. SSA and SIN were one of the first to have brand vendor forums. Neither of us charged for it for a very long time. Speaking to everyone reading this, not just Brad; Once brand forums became standard on all the other forums, as around 2007/2008 is when we saw the rampant duplication of our layout, vendor forums became monetized. In the same train of thought of Milne, many of these brands who cannot handle criticism or think they have to present a synthetic perfect image to customers, have taken the delusional mind set of that since they are paying for a section, they think they should have total control over the data or information in relation to their products. Well, that is flat out incorrect, the data belongs to the owners of the forum, the vendors are paying for the right to have a dedicated section, nothing more. What is worse is when the forum staff (moderators or owners), think they need to delete any negative feedback to protect their vendors or butt buddies. Then what happens is people try to understand via PM or email, then they get banned. You will never see that here (as Brad said). This is clearly a very bad issue at amateur hour forums, where deeply rooted issues of insecurity and pissing contests are the standard psychological mindset. And no, I'm not referring to the 16 year old kids who just got their first car and want to out do their buddies in the school parking lot, I am talking about the 30-40+ somethings that still have not grown up and feel it is completely okay to act the way the 16 year old's do, the difference being is that they have gained 'post delete' or 'ban member' functions. Where this problem becomes HUGELY damaging, is when the young crowd, specifically the above mentioned 16 year old's fresh onto the audio scene are fed blatant lies, half-truths or are completely miss-led due to lack of honest information. This becomes clearly evident when you read posts on other forums by younger members that say something along the lines of "Well I have not heard anything bad about them, and they were good to me, so I'm going to stick with them", essentially saying that they don't care that others have been screwed over because it was not them. What those kids don't understand is that they are only perpetuating the bottom of the barrel 'companies' and forums to continue to thrive, be it with poor by passable product or be it with massively distorted or slanted information available. This in turn continues to have an effect on the perception of car audio as a whole, and why it is becoming a lesser and lesser enjoyable hobby as it once was. Much of this fake presentation is supported by giving out free product under the guise of a review. This breeds the blind fan boys that only add more fuel to the above mentioned issue of distorted/filtered/false information to assist in making money off people who don't know better who end up buying inferior product or buying from an inferior company. /sadly I know this rant won't make a difference or effect much of anything